Consensus & The Dam

I was a bit shocked by Musharrafs statement..( he seems to be losing any sense of tact) about dams..at one side then he is asking for consensus and offering constitutional guarantees about kalabagh dam(which is a bit odd coming from a person who suspended the constitution) and then he says this:
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Answering a question, he warned that Punjab would topple any future government which dared to halt the construction of the Kalabagh dam once work on it was undertaken.

He said it was now evident that no political party in the country could form government without the support from Punjab.*Dawn

Re: Consensus & The Dam

whats punjab somebody should ask him...is it military, or is it nawaz sharif or is it maulana falan flaan from mma? from the sounds of it, the army backing is going down.

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By Punjab he means the Chaudries and the loss goose coalition of members of the current government also known as Muslim league, ... and Muslim league is not a party, it’s a coalition of power hungry politicians from all over Pakistan who would do any thing to remain in power, actually they share this goal with their best buddy Chaudry Musharraf.

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So what’s new? :hehe:

So is that a threat to other provinces (by musharraf but being given out by the army)? :eek:

I already knew that once the dam decision is made, then army will probably protect it AND WE KNOW THAT IN PAKISTAN, PUNJAB = ARMY.

This exact politics of chaudhris, army thugs etc was the reason the country got split into 2 (who cares about manekshaw, arora? why give the credit that is not due???).

I read that kalabagh is in an earthquake zone (the one where we had an earthquake right now) so why built it there then :confused:
Big dams already are considered a bad thing these days (many smaller carryover dams are being preferred..).
Sindh has the drying up of rivers problem (they think water will be taken out more to fill the dam from sindh’s share?) while pathans don’t like the flooding of their peshawar valley (don’t know what beef balochis have with it but they were against it as well?).
Why don’t they make bhasha dam first when there is consensus on it???

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International-Beggers (Musharaf and Aziz) have managed to get promises for $5 billion, but that does not look pretty good to satisfy their instincts and they want more. We always have to watch this dam and kashmir dramma when the government finds no other way to get loans and aid.

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I thought World Bank was ready to finance this dam?

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Musharraf will do anything to stay in power, even if that means turning Sindh, including its capital Karachi barren.

And then people wonder why there is so much resentment against Punjab

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Will he since he is supposed to be a mouhajir himself (however dugganized that is left to discretion :smiley: ) and MQM is one of his biggest partners in the game! :confused:

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I am from Nowshehra and Mardan, two places which will be completely obliterated by the Kalabagh Dam as we saw in the floods last spring/summer. All and every parties from NWFP-Sindh are against this. MQM even who is in ruling gov. is against it. anyways wtf is this Bullshyt that "consensus or no consensus dam will be built" according to Musharraf. Are you kiding me? he is clearly on the path of breaking Pakistan up into pieces. if he swears the 02 eellections werent rigged, then the people elcted who represent those people are against thr dams. if this dam is built There will be no more Pakistan! for 25 yrs no1 has been able to convince/woo NWFP or sindh to agree to ti because it is suicide for both provinces!

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Here is a good discussion about the topic. Dams are part of the infrastructure of any society or country. They have to be built even when there is opposition. The same thing is true with roads, bridges, electric line towers etc. Every country goes through the tough negotiations and some time long litigations, and Pakistan is no exception. However a project like this cannot be blocked forever. I say build the darned thing called KBD and then move on to build the Bhasha dam.

EDITORIAL: KBD: now or never

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2005\12\13\story_13-12-2005_pg3_1

Talking to journalists in Karachi on Sunday, General Pervez Musharraf indicated that the government will go ahead with the construction of Kalabagh Dam whether or not it can get a national consensus on it. This is the first indication that General Musharraf has tired of efforts of the past three years to get the smaller provinces, especially Sindh and NWFP, to fall in line and accept the logic of technical parameters for the feasibility of the project rather than putting it into a political straitjacket.

To be fair to General Musharraf, he still wants a consensus. “Consensus is very important. But sometimes you don’t get a complete consensus because of a variety of reasons.” This is why he was speaking to Sindhi intellectuals and newspaper editors and reporters. However, as he has said repeatedly, building large and small dams, as well as canals, is a necessity that can no longer afford the luxury of procrastination. The country has not built a large dam in the past 30 years and is currently facing a shortage of nine million acre feet of water. “This shortage,” as General Musharraf said, “will enormously compound in the coming years and only the construction of big dams like Kalabagh can help us cope with the situation.”

The KBD issue has been hanging fire for more than three decades. Successive governments have tried to pick it up only to drop it when it got hot. General Musharraf, too, has been testing its temperature for the last three years. But it appears that he is now prepared to take the heat and go right ahead with what needs to be done. As we have previously noted, this is the best option available. If the government is convinced that it can’t do without KBD, it should not let the opportunity slip by. And if it can’t take the heat, it should drop the issue once and for all.

However, having settled for the difficult option in the short-term for the larger benefit of the country in the longer-term, General Musharraf should realise that KBD cannot be treated in a vacuum. He may go ahead with the project — and he should — but equally he must appreciate the imperative of creating an atmosphere of trust. The polarisation in Islamabad, which consequently cuts vertically through the entire country, is not conducive to undertaking highly controversial projects. General Musharraf is in Quetta even as one Baloch sardar, Nawab Akbar Bugti, has declared that the federal government has started a mini-military operation in the province. Mr Bugti’s statement comes on the heels of the indictment of his grandson for alleged involvement in the bombing of the PIDC building in Karachi. The two Baloch suspects have reportedly told the police that they were assigned the job by Mr Bugti’s grandson. Mr Bugti has, of course, rejected the claim and said that his grandson is being framed by the federal government for political reasons. We mention this for two reasons: in a country where even a criminal case can take a political colouring, constructing KBD won’t be an easy task; secondly, the incident evinces the distrust that exists at all levels of governance.

Even the ruling League is not a united house. There is now a forward bloc in that party. It may not become an immediate problem for the system, but come 2007 it could begin to hurt. The ruling League’s allies are unhappy with it and they too are unlikely to resist the temptation of drawing blood when they get the opportunity. General Musharraf has so far thrived on the disunity among the political classes, mediating and balancing to retain his and the army’s primary position in the polity. But this tactical necessity runs contrary to General Musharraf’s own, stated strategic objectives which require a movement towards building bridges rather than widening the interstices that crisscross the political terrain of Pakistan.

He needs therefore to revisit his larger policy even as he goes ahead with KBD.

Re: Consensus & The Dam

Governments can be toppled, but dams can also topple sometimes.

Kalabagh Dam= Declaration of war on Sindh

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and NWFP!

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The step by step logic of Mush and co goes like this:

a)There should be consensus on dams in general (all options considered)
b) there should be consensus on Kalabagh dam (only)
c) If there is no consensus on kalabagh we will build it regrdless (consensus is not needed)
d) If anyone tries to stop it once it has started..that gov will be toppled by Punjab (to hell with consensus)

Conclusion: c and d were already decided..it is only a matter of whether the opposition to it is strong enough to make Mush fold....every party agrees on the need for electricity producing and water storage dams (most of which can be built for less than kalabagh)..everyone agrees on the need for reform of the existing water distribution system..the problem I have always believed is that..those fat cats who have planned to make huge sums in commission and omission ( part of the Kaun banega crore pati scheme linked to Mushs new found near and possibly dear friends) have lobbied for this project for ages..and at the expense of other more effective projects as well..

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Not surprised really!...This mentally retarded dictator has often uttered such inflammatory statements in the past. Mushy the dictator knows that Punjab is the power base of the napakarmy and hated in all other provinces. Army needs Punjab to rule the country and Punjab needs army to plunder the natural resources of other provinces.

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I can understand akhrot's concern (they are valid :D) but in sindh, i believe the issue has been politicized a lot!

I don't understand the reasons provided by marhus against the dam (no one has been able to tell us how to store the water that goes to sea when the rivers flood in Pakistan).
Mush was right that sindh turning into a desert with not a lot of rain has the most to lose!

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And you are sindhi? :stuck_out_tongue:

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As i said it seems like Nawaz Sharif Mushy was planning on a unilateral decision to start construction without bothering with things like consensus or even worse debates in the Assembly or senate..
The president told the meeting that he had planned to announce construction of the Kalabagh dam in February last. “The chief minister came and requested me to delay the announcement as the local government elections were approaching. But now if someone says that 2007 general elections are also approaching then this is no excuse for me,” Musharraf told the meeting.

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This is strange! Really!

Most of the world wants development except Middle Eastern Maulanas and their Commie-Rafiki-freaki slaves in Pakistan.

China has totally changed its regions like Goang-Jo and built up with tonnes of infrastructure. We in Pakistan still are busy doing bakwas (making noise) against similar projects. Where the heck are we heading?

World Bank will give money, and water storage capacity will increase in Pakistan. Sure there will be environmental and social impacts due to the project.

However it bugs me to see the shora's shor-O-Ghogha-Ghul-Ghappara (kommie blabbering) against infrastructure development.

A tiny populace of 6 million Baluchis, with even tinier 20% Bugtis are being used by the Kommies to hold the rest of the 150 Million people hostage.

This brings Bugti down to the African despots like Mugabe or worse yet some Fara Aideed like lunatics hell bent on using their AK 47 against innocent civilian and government workers. Kill few FC men and you will go to Balochi Jannat. It does nothing to the Sardars of Balochistan, or Baboos of Islamabad. Yet poor families of those FC men lose a bread winner.

Get out of the ghetto mentality O Kommies. It is time to develop the whole country. Now you go to Oman illegally and get exploited. At least Gawadar and Sui are close to home.

Nutz. Simply Nutz.

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I see some people are out to misrepresent facts..no group has opposed (barring the local affectees) development ..it is the intent behind the development and the credibility of the federal gov that is the problem. This credibility is because paks ruling class..wishes to impose its decisions on people ..not for the locals benefits ..but for their own..

The list of broken promises is enormous..ranging from provincial autonomy not being granted to the NFC and a resource distribution system that has no comparison for its unjustness to being deprived of royalty over natural resources to water pilferage and the lack of compensation of affectees of Tarbela and Ghazi barotha to this day..and yet some people don't understand why there is opposition? ..now thats nuts..

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Anti- You dont know what the issue here is do you?

The dam will turn much of Sindh, NWFP and Balochistan into a barren land, for the benefit of Punjab, as much is done today. That is the whole issue