Concept of honor and respect

Re: Concept of honor and respect

um, no they aren’t and no its not. you just shamelessly pulled that out of your ass.

like most muslims, you mindlessly assume that any wrongdoing of Muslims must come from “culture”, which of course, must be pre-Islam culture. where is your evidence? there is absolutely nothing to support your claims.

this is a uniquely muslim practice in South Asia, and is virtually confined to Pakistan and Bangladesh, which just happen to be the only two muslim nations in the subcontinent.

in fact, every month there is some Pakistani or Bangladeshi committing an honor killing in the West, usually the UK or Canada. when have you heard of Hindus doing this? that’s right..never.

though it has a population 6-7 times the size of Pakistan, India has literally a tiny handful of “honor killings”, which mostly don’t even fit the definition and are all recent phenomenons…while Pakistan has thousands per year, with Bangladesh not far behind.

muslims chant “oh its culture” a million times…“culture culture culture” always trying to redirect blame for their stupidity away from Islam, citing Islamic legal disapproval…how is it so hard to understand that Islam inspires these stupidities even if it may not sanction them. perhaps from “misinterpretation”, but Islam still remains the basis. just this honor killing b.s is a good example…the correlation between this practice and Muslims of the subcontinent is a 99% match…and don’t forget, after Pakistan and Bangladesh, all the other high-incidence countries when it comes to honor killings are Arab Muslim nations. this is all way too high of a correlation to be a coincidence. maybe blame should be redirected to pagan Arabs?

Re: Concept of honor and respect

What are you people smoking? Rape isn't restricted to only lust, definitely factors like control humiliation etc. are involved. But to say that rape has nothing to do with lust is pretty ignorant because the very act itself is impossible without it.

Re: Concept of honor and respect

lust simply facilitates the act.

the cause itself will still be power-related in most rape cases.

the top 10 countries for rapes probably all have thriving prostitution industries. it wouldn’t be hard to effortlessly satisfy lustful desires in virtually any country on earth.

Re: Concept of honor and respect

Nikhil, here is your wake up call. Please refrain from posting ignorant comments. Please read all about “voluntary sati” and honor killings in India.

BLOODTHIRSTY HONOUR

Eve teasing. Voluntary sati. And now, honour killings. These oxymoron-ridden phrases wreak violence on our language every day. They also mirror flesh-and-blood violence. Coercion, assault or murders continue to be exactly that, no matter how much they are whitewashed with euphemisms about teasing; no matter how well they are dressed up with qualifiers like voluntary and honour.

In the contemporary definition of an honour killing, a woman or a man, or the couple, are victimized for marrying outside their caste or community. It is like a familiar script with the wrong ending. Every other film made in India has a couple in love who are not allowed to marry. Invariably, whether the difference between boy and girl is class, caste or religion, the end is happy. The marriage takes place, and the narrow-minded opponents of the marriage benefit from a lesson on the equalizing powers of love.

Our transgressing young lovers in real life find the story often ends quite differently. Their marriages lead to punishing ostracism, and to violence in a sickening variety of forms. A convention against “honour” killings and violence held in Delhi earlier this year identified some of the types of punishment the couple may be subject to. Public lynching. Or murder. Or, taking a leaf out of the case of “voluntary sati,” murder camouflaged as suicide — say by forcing the victim to drink poison. Less drastic than murder but almost as painful is a long list of honour-driven violence: sexual assault on the women members of the accused family, usually belonging to the lower caste or the “other community” as “revenge;” public beating, stripping, blackening of the face; shaving of the head; forcing the couple or their families to drink urine or eat excrement; incarceration, huge fines, social boycott or being driven out of the village.

It is a useful thing to perpetuate a tradition of martyrdom, especially when women’s bodies are vulnerable to being viewed as the vessels of national honour. It was this unholy honour that provided the motive for otherwise “normal” men to kill their own sisters and wives and mothers during the Partition — “disappearances” and murders which have been covered by a conspiracy of silence, and by the more acceptable belief that these women were abducted or killed by men from the other side. ** In her book The Other Side of Silence, Urvashi Butalia takes on this myth that the perpetrators of violence were always “outsiders”. She writes about a man she interviewed in Amritsar, Mangal Singh, whose family killed seventeen of its women and children. He refuses to use the word killed; he says they became “martyrs” in keeping with Sikh pride. ** The women, he says, were willing to become martyrs. “The real fear was one of dishonour.” But, asks Butalia, who had the pride and the fear? It is not a question Mangal Singh was willing to examine. Similarly, in Borders and Boundaries: Women in India’s Partition, Ritu Menon records the account of a partition survivor, Durga Rani. In this account, two types of honour killings occur: one in anticipation of dishonour; the other as a way to cope with dishonour. Consider, on the one hand: “In the villages of Head Junu, Hindus threw their young daughters into wells, dug trenches and buried them alive. Some were burnt to death, some were made to touch electric wires to prevent the Muslims touching them.” On the other hand, Durga Rani gives us an idea of what happened to many women who had been abandoned after being raped and disfigured. They could not be “kept” any longer because their “character” was now spoilt. In some cases, as in that of a girl who was raped by ten or more men, the only way to deal with the dishonour was murder; the girl, says Durga Rani, was burnt by her father.

All these years after Partition, this dishonourable honour still stalks the land, wreaking its barbaric violence on both men and women, but preferably on women. Most cases are reported from Punjab, Haryana and parts of western Uttar Pradesh. The statistics are disturbing; twenty-three such murders were reported during 2002 and 2003 in Muzaffarnagar alone. Thirty-five young couples were declared “missing”. And in Punjab and Haryana, one out of every ten murders is an honour killing. In most of the cases where the girl is from an upper caste, the boy is the target of violence, usually by the girl’s family. Often, girls who are murdered for “destroying the honour of the family” are cremated without any legal formalities and the deaths concealed.

Behind the statistical wall is a collection of stories that tell of violence and fear unleashed on the basis of a shameful rationale. In Hoshiarpur, Punjab, twenty-two-year old Geeta Rani, a Rajput woman, married Jasvir, the son of the only Jat family in the village. Her parents did not object to the match. But the Rajputs in Jasvir’s village, including a suspended police officer, decided to “teach him a lesson” for marrying one of “their” women.

Within two months of the marriage, he was killed after his hands and legs were cut off. One hand was thrown into Jasvir’s aunt’s house. Now, the widowed Geeta and her widowed mother-in-law live in fear, struggling to pay security guards to keep them safe. “Not even the nightmare of the 1984 riots was this bad,” says the mother-in-law.

In Jhajjar, a Jat woman from Talav village married a Dalit. She was forced to return to her father’s home, and there both she and her sister were murdered. So were a Dalit woman and a man who were accused of helping the girl to elope. The villagers who recounted the story were clear about one thing: the administration was careful to protect the upper castes.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1041010/asp/opinion/story_3848937.asp

Re: Concept of honor and respect

sati, whether voluntary or not, has nothing to do with honor killings. either way, this practice has been virtually extinct for well over a century.

even these killings over inter-caste marriage are totally different from the Pakistani/Bangladeshi concept of honor killings and should probably have a different name…and they still amount to a tiny amount of cases per year in a handful of states.

its funny how the exact incidents and records in your post have already been posted in this thread, and from different sources to boot…it just shows how limited your arsenal is on this matter.

this is just something you will have to swallow…honor killing is a uniquely muslim practice. it was not carried over from anywhere. i can’t even believe this is being contested.

Re: Concept of honor and respect

It has been clearly iterated and reiterated a number of times that the practice of honour killing is alien to Islam and Islamic teachings.

Different sides have stated their views and there really is not much room left to argue. Those with a bias against Islam really have no clear substance or material to clearly suggest that it is an Islamic practice. It is haraam in Islam and there is absolutely no support for it in Shariah.