Concept of honor and respect

[Fire_and_Water]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

And where does stupid pride come from: From a set of beliefs that people think are infalliable. So that needs to be shattered by an open society. And religion is one of the the source of this - willingly missused to a great extent.

"Honour" killings of women can be defined as acts of murder in which "a woman is killed for her actual or perceived immoral behavior." (Yasmeen Hassan, "The Fate of Pakistani Women," International Herald Tribune, May 25, 1999.)

According to Yasmeen Hassan, author of *The Haven Becomes Hell: A Study of Domestic Violence in Pakistan*, "The concepts of women as **property and honor **are so deeply entrenched in the social, political and economic fabric of Pakistan that the government, for the most part, ignores the daily occurrences of women being killed and maimed by their families." (Hassan, "The Fate of Pakistani Women.") Frequently, women murdered in "honour" killings are recorded as having committed suicide or died in accidents.



And Jordan takes the cake for that "**

Parliament in Jordan has overwhelmingly rejected a proposed law imposing harsher punishments for men who kill female relatives in what are known as "honour killings". Sep 2003.

** How come Muslim nations have the highest number of these. To answer that here are the cheerleaders???

The country's leading political party, the Islamic Action Front (IAF), denounced the draft law as an effort to "destroy our Islamic, social and family values, by stripping the man from his humanity, [and] not allowing him to get angry when he is surprised by * his wife committing adultery."

See how Islamic values is perhaps being misused. :(

Everthing is a tool for the honour killin idiots to condemn women - religion, caste, dominant attitude and ignorance.*

[Fire_and_Water]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

In India those who order honour killings are in high and influential positions, like Bibi Jagir Kaur.

‘Honour killing’ casts medieval shadow over India]('Honour killing' casts medieval shadow over India | World news | The Guardian)

As I said - Religion, caste, community anything is enough for them to do this. Persons in high and influential persons are also illiterates and bigots. Thanks for posting that.

Change, change change - respect individual preferences. There is no other solution…

[allahditta]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

Hello Freinds! Larki ki izzat ghaar ki izzat hoti hai! because the larki is beauty and the boy is run after the girl not girl run after boy haha we all know!big problem is that the larki is get the pregnant! boyis not getting the pregnant he is having sex and he is walks away happy! larki is only left nishani!this why girl need to protect by brother and father and stay house and not to go out or putting makeup or tight cloth.

[dhobi_bhai]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

@allahditta

Hello Freinds! Larki ki izzat ghaar ki izzat hoti hai!

this why girl need to protect by brother and father and stay house and not to go out or putting makeup or tight cloth.

Hello allahditta

aapkay khayalaat key mutabiq agar larki bun sunwar kar ghar sey bahir nahin nikley aur phir bhi us per zulum-o-tashaddud kee jaye, jaisa kay aap ghaliban pardh chukey hongey, to phir is soorat-e-haal mein qasoor kiss ka hai? larki key waaldain ki, jo larki ko zabardasti zamanay ki tung-nazri ka saamna karwa rahey hain, ya phir larkay walon ki, kay jin kay ghar mein khud unki maa behnon ko izzat nahin dee jaati?

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Great thread. Looking forward to all the responses!

[allahditta]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

Hello! Dhobi bhai that is funny screenname kya aap asaal mein dhobi hain haha! ok fine reply is dekho jee larki nazuk cheez hai aur uss kay saath hamesha galatt hua hai zulum hua hai aur harr society mein hua hai hota rahay gaa yeh uss ki janss ki badnaseebi hai issi liay islam mein kaha hai aurat naqiss hai aur uss mein kammee hai. islam ke mutabiq aisi aurat ko apnay shohar ka zulm bardaasht kerna chahiyay. aur akhrat mein uss ko sawab millay ga inshallah!uss ko apnay shohar ki Qurbat milay gee lekin jannat mein uss ka shohar bura nahi ho gaa uss per zulm nahi karay gaa.

[dhobi_bhai]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

masha-Allah allahditta jee, buhat achee baat karee aapney.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

Look, hindus may not have been the ones to have invented the practice, but given that most muslims in Pakistan have hindu ancestry, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that some customs were not abandoned by hindus who converted over to Islam.

I am not surprised that it exists and existed in arab lands. Pre-Islamic arabic tribal customs have not entirely disappeared despite the Rasul (SAW)'s work. In fact, right after the Prophet SAW died, there was an immediate shuraa-at of reversing his work. So, yes, I'm not surprised that this stuff goes on over there, and I am not surprised it comes from pre-Islamic arabic tribal culture.

Now if the trend passed from pre-Islamic arabic culture to hindu culture, or from hindu culture to pre-Islamic arabic culture, I don't know.

Regardless, the whole "oh, its not my fault, this is an ancestral tradition" is NO EXCUSE for this sort of behavior. Its been how many centuries since Islam was introduced?

What bothers me is how many people are averse to talking about the matter. If you ask Pakistanis, most of them are in denial that it even happens.

[Captain1]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

@Fire and Water

The issue was Honour killing and how quickly it was attributed to hindu culture!!! Everything bad has to immediately come from the Hindu culture… At the minimum please do a google on honour killing and see what comes up. Mind you it it will be a shock.

Well SATI was abolished long back but how about stoning for adultery that goes on even today. And the Hurdood Ordinance is what you like Clap Clap Clap. Honour killing is in the same class

Does it make any amount of difference that SATI was practised in India long time back to the issue of Honour killings raised here.

Speaks of your intellect

[Sadiyah]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

Simply put honour killing has nothing to do with the core Islamic beliefs or teachings. It is most likely based on cultural, local, regional, family, etc. practices that many Muslims are probably following.

[Fire_and_Water]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

....

[rvikz]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

@PyariCgudia

Look, hindus may not have been the ones to have invented the practice, but given that most muslims in Pakistan have hindu ancestry, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that some customs were not abandoned by hindus who converted over to Islam.

I am not surprised that it exists and existed in arab lands. Pre-Islamic arabic tribal customs have not entirely disappeared despite the Rasul (SAW)'s work. In fact, right after the Prophet SAW died, there was an immediate shuraa-at of reversing his work. So, yes, I’m not surprised that this stuff goes on over there, and I am not surprised it comes from pre-Islamic arabic tribal culture.

Now if the trend passed from pre-Islamic arabic culture to hindu culture, or from hindu culture to pre-Islamic arabic culture, I don’t know.

Regardless, the whole “oh, its not my fault, this is an ancestral tradition” is NO EXCUSE for this sort of behavior. Its been how many centuries since Islam was introduced?

What bothers me is how many people are averse to talking about the matter. If you ask Pakistanis, most of them are in denial that it even happens.

lot of practises are regional like vani system it is not practised in all states in southasia .

[Blitzkrieg]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

What is vani?

Is it related to kari in sindh?

[anjjan]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

@Kaleem

FW, please show me where I placed the balme on others…if you had been here long enough, you would have known that I have always said that muslims are themselves to blame for their ills…however, when some smart ass tries to describe as the religion that supresses women or degrades women…that person needs a spanking and I am always up to the task

What an excuse?

Can you tell me what the punishment for adultery in Islam is? Who is the easy target for punishment for adultery….man or women? And does the punishment differ from honor killing?

Do you oppose the punishment described in Islam for adultery?

For your information Hindus do have some mal practices based on outdated religious dogmas, but Hindus oppose all such barbarous acts and to some extent have successfully abolished much of it.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

It does differ greatly from honor killing:

1. In honor killing, there is no fair trial, while in the punishment for adultery, there is a fair trial.

2. Honor killing is not permitted by the Quran, since you can't kill someone on a whim. Quran, surprisingly, is pretty silent on the punishment for adultery, since there is no verse that says one should be stoned if committed adultery. The punishment for adultery is perscribed in hadith. If anyone still has any legit information that can prove to me that the Quran perscribes the death punishment for adultery, then please put it forth.

3. Honor killings are done for more than just adultery. If you see your sister or wife or whoever talking to someone of the opposite sex, you could kill her and that would still be an honor killing. Adultery punishment is for adultery alone.

4. You need 4 witnesses to see adultery taking place, according to Sunnah tradition, before you can put forth a case to the courts on your spouse. In honor killing, no witnesses are necessary. You as a male, have authority, in honor killing culture, to claim that you know there is hanky panky going on based on minimal evidence or even no evidence at all.

5. Because of the 4 witnesses deal, ideally, you wouldn't see very many executions for adultery taking place in a true Islamically run state. Its hard to get 4 witnesses, since people cheat in secret, and they do a darn good job of it, usually. However, you see honor killings happening left and right, which matches hte theoretical prediction of how frequent honor killings would be given the theoretical concept of it.

6. Honor killings can be perscribed for a woman being seen talking to a man. So honor killings can be quite unIslamic, because they punish for something that is perfectly Islamic in the first place. However, adultery punishments are only for adultery, which is an Islamic crime, so the punishment is also an Islamic one.

There is a big difference between the two, I hope I made that clear and I hope I extensively covered the differences.

[dhobi_bhai]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

Nice post, PyariCgudia. Quite helpful information provided. :)

[anjjan]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

@PyariCgudia

It does differ greatly from honor killing:

1. In honor killing, there is no fair trial, while in the punishment for adultery, there is a fair trial.

2. Honor killing is not permitted by the Quran, since you can’t kill someone on a whim. Quran, surprisingly, is pretty silent on the punishment for adultery, since .

…

And now tell me how some Muslims (in this thread) have accused the Hindu influence on Muslims for honor killings?

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

Are you saying honor killings originated from the Quranic punishment for adultery?

Honor killings have existed before the Quran was revealed. Honor killings are ancient.

[Sadiyah]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

anjjan, I have edited your post. I'm tired of you dragging Islam into everthing and asking silly rhetorical questions. Before blatantly suggesting that ahadith propogate honour killings, please provide appropriate evidence or stop making up stuff.

[anjjan]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

@PyariCgudia

Are you saying honor killings originated from the Quranic punishment for adultery?

Honor killings have existed before the Quran was revealed. Honor killings are ancient.

No. I want to say that the hadits sayings related to punishment for adultery has only modified it.

Sadyaji…kindly do the same when Hindus become easy target for nothing. It is only a request not compulsion, as Gupshup being an Islamic site.

[Sadiyah]

Re: Concept of honor and respect

@anjjan

No. I want to say that the hadits sayings related to punishment for adultery has only modified it.

It is in fact very much Islamic and women are an easy target.

anjjan, what are hadiths suggesting and what is very much Islamic and how are women easy target.

Please start providing evidence.