Contingency plan ? Train more terrorists and send into India, and keep doing it till we lose patience and…
Re: Composite Dialogue
and one more thing. If at all there is any dialogue, make sure there are a couple of video cameras and take everything that's said. The Pakistani powers to be have off late displayed singnificant attempts to deny each other unless such evidence is presented in public.
Re: Composite Dialogue
Composite dialogue with whom, PM of India has already stated that he is confused with whom to talk to in Pakistan, whether with PM of Pakistan with President of Pakistan.
Who controls the power in Pakistan? Composite dialogue makes only sense between India and Pakistan, when parliamant of Pakistan is in control its Army and its Intelligence
That’s a preposterous and sophomoric position. I was unaware that civil discourse was barred in this forum. These are the very same notions, on both sides of the border, that hinder peace. I highly doubt the moderators and owners of this forum disallow countering views, particularly on such pressing issues.
To your point of United Nations resolutions, they were nullified when Pakistan seceded a portion of Kashmir, in what it called at the time to be a landmark boundary resolution, to China in 1963. This portion was covered in the relevant resolutions.
Second, any requisite movement on Kashmir was predicated on Indian control over the entire area. That means no Pakistani regulars of tribal militias and Indian military control of Pakistani Kashmir, Indian Kashmir, and what is now Chinese Kashmir.
Even Pakistan no longer brings up UN resolutions, because they, just by the 1963 Pakistani decision, are nullified. There is no need to bring up the bilateral 1971 agreement.
Moreover, the Indian leadership understands that Pakistan has, by and large, lost control over the jihadi elements it created. India did not strike after the Mumbai attacks. There is no greater sign of want of peace than letting it be handled by Pakistan and letting the Indian public swallow submission of meaningless dossiers.
I submit to you again, trust does not have to be a prerequisite for peace.
Re: Composite Dialogue
^^^
I totally agree with Kprasad, "trust does not have to be a prerequisite for peace."
Pakistan needs to learn from India- China relationship. There are terrotorial disputes, Tibet Issue, 1962 war, Dalia lama etc etc between India and China; there is a mistrust between India and China.
But, mistrust is not the pre requitsite for peace between India and China.
Trade between India and China for year 2008-09 was USD 41 billion.
The most cited success story of Chinese ventures in India is Huawei Technologies which has a $100 million research and development facility in Bangalore, producing cutting-edge optical networks for India's telecommunications infrastructure.
Indian Pharmaceutical firms such as Ranbaxy and Dr. Reddy's Laboratories, and Indian IT companies like Infosys, TCS, Wipro, NIIT and 3i Infotech have operations in China.
Plus, there are hundreds of Chinese workers in working in Engineering Companies operating in Indian state of Orrisa in Iron and Steel plants.
Pakistan needs to learn from this and keep aside religious mullah gazwa e hind lobby and promote its ecnomic lobby.
FYI, LeT Al Alami from pakistan has claimed responsibility for Pune Killings.
Composite dialogue of India does not makes sense with pakistan; where educated college students are dreaming about Gazwa e hind, word “hindu” is used in derogatory manner.
Pakistani establishment needs to have composite dialogue with the war mastabators in pakistan, who think its the religious duty of muslims to wage war with hindus and all their problems will be solved when they will hear Radio Pakistan Delhi.
How will the present Pakistani youth welcome a company of the stature of Infosys, if Infy wants to set up a software development center in paksitan?
Please dont compare kashmir and Palestine.
I fully support palestinian cause for freedom because; Palestinian never kicked out non muslims from their country. They never raised slogans from their masjids “Aye Kafiro kafirao, falastine hamara chhod do” against palstinian non muslims. They did not kick out 1,000,000 fellow palestinian non muslims from palestine to establish their nizam. They did not attack burn down places of worship of non muslims when Zia ul haq was killed in plane crash.
Present day muslim talks about secularism only when they are in minority. They forget about secularsim, when they come in majority.
Re: Composite Dialogue
Indians swarming this thread like flies swarming you know what.
We can keep doing circles around UN resolutions and the annals of history but there is no denying Kashmir and Pakistan were denied their right to choose their destiny – these rights preceded the creation of Bangladesh, territorial adjustments with China, and the insurgency movements.
I am not ignorant of the realities on the ground, reality that India is almost 10X our population, with more defense resources, international clout and stature. But what do you Indians expect us to do roll over and die? Well those dreams were dashed as early as 1948 Despite the odds, we WILL stand up for the moral rights of Kashmiris. Despite the fact that the world may ignore the cries of azadi in the Valley, we will continue to stand up and call for a plebiscite. Despite all the arguments presented here, let us not forget that the Hyderabad, Junagadh annexed by India despite having the mirror circumstance of a Muslim ruler with a majority Hindu population.
I don’t trust the Indians for any type of true, all encompassing dialogue – when you talk about Kashmir being an integral part of India (Article 370 notwithstanding). The only way there will be peace in between Pakistan and Indian, is when Pakistani military decisively takes Kashmir. I am dreaming right? Sure, smart money would agree. Then again, the very concept of Pakistan was a pipe dream 1937. The winds of history will change, until then we will continue to call for the rights of Kashmiris – of all religious groups to be heard in a plebiscite to decide their political future.
CM, this dialogue is a farce.
Re: Composite Dialogue
have to laugh when you say things like "we will stand for moral rights of kashmiris." what happened to moral rights of bengalis when you killed over a million of them? and those of biharis rotting away waiting for repatriation 40 years on? and more recently, those of the baloch being carpet-bombed, kidnapped, and assassinated?
haven't you learnt your lesson from three decades of culture of hatred used to raise snakes to bite india over kashmir, that have now turned over, and have your country gasping for survival with daily suicide blasts? or from losing you judiciary and democratic institutions to military dictatorship over kashmiri misadventures, leading to a cycle of corruption and the return of zardari who was all done for otherwise?
The winds of history will change, until then we will continue to call for the rights of Kashmiris – of all religious groups to be heard in a plebiscite to decide their political future.
You are more than welcome to support kashmiris. But please specify which kashmiris are you talking about is it muslims or a million plus kashmiri hindus who were kicked out of there homes?
Its nice to know that you will include all religious groups in a plebiscite.
Will you stand for the rights of kashmiri hindus when they decide their political future and demand their share of Maej Kashir?
Please remember, Sar Zameen e Hind was not Baap ki Jaagir of Hindus, just becoz hindus were in majority.
Same way, Maej Kashir is not the BAAP KI JAAGIR of musalmaans, just becoz they are in majority in kashmir or have your moral support.
have to laugh when you say things like "we will stand for moral rights of kashmiris." what happened to moral rights of bengalis when you killed over a million of them? and those of biharis rotting away waiting for repatriation 40 years on? and more recently, those of the baloch being carpet-bombed, kidnapped, and assassinated?
haven't you learnt your lesson from three decades of culture of hatred used to raise snakes to bite india over kashmir, that have now turned over, and have your country gasping for survival with daily suicide blasts? or from losing you judiciary and democratic institutions to military dictatorship over kashmiri misadventures, leading to a cycle of corruption and the return of zardari who was all done for otherwise?
Again, go ahead and laugh. I can start listing problems with India, the corruption, the repression of minorities but that will NOT vindicate India's position over Kashmir. In logic or even in a formal debate these facts (yes they are true) can not be applied to the main issue at hand, Kashmir.
Fine, I'll say what you won't say on this message board: Pakistanis are scum of the earth and Pakistan is a horrible country, happy? Now let's talk about letting the Kashmiris decide: Whether they want to be free and independent, continue to stay with shining, properous and utopian India (feel free to add how GREAT India is) or join horrible Bengali killing, Baluchis carpet bombing, terrorist Pakistan. Call for a vote, include the Kashmiri Pandits, but don't forget the Jammu Muslims either. If Kashmiris decide for India, WE will respect it. So go ahead and denigrate Pakistan, but give Kashmiris the right to vote and if they would rather stay with India or become independent, Pakistan has no leg to stand on and I will be the first to condemn my country for any acts of violence or aggression against India.
You are more than welcome to support kashmiris. But please specify which kashmiris are you talking about is it muslims or a million plus kashmiri hindus who were kicked out of there homes?
Its nice to know that you will include all religious groups in a plebiscite. Will you stand for the rights of kashmiri hindus when they decide their political future and demand their share of Maej Kashir?
Please remember, Sar Zameen e Hind was not Baap ki Jaagir of Hindus, just becoz hindus were in majority. Same way, Maej Kashir is not the BAAP KI JAAGIR of musalmaans, just becoz they are in majority in kashmir or have your moral support.
As I mentioned earlier, if Kashmiris decide to vote for an Independent Hindu Kashmiri kingdom, I will respect that. Feel free to include the displaced Kashmiri but also don't forget the Muslims from Jammu as well.
I am not calling any country "baap ki jaagir" of any particular group. Call a plebiscite and let people of the disputed territory decide.
Re: Composite Dialogue
^^ Pak-one. We the Paks must learn from the history. Kashmir was bought and sold like real-estate.
Just like in the past, Pakistan should be willing to buy it back. Hari Singh didn't snatch Kashmir from Brits. He bought it.
Similarly Pakistan cannot and should not snatch Kashmir from the current owners. We should first earn enough money and then pay the Indians whatever they ask for.
Let the auction begin.
Say 2 years budget of India - will make it $300 billions or so.
The question is! Are we the Paks willing to first earn and then Pay the Indians?
Re: Composite Dialogue
again, look who is calling for a vote for others - a country which is frequently taken over by the army and itself hasnt learnt how to vote.
so out of touch with reality, and combined with the jazbaati nature of your approach. hardly practical.
Re: Composite Dialogue
I think there should be composite dialogue. Composite is defined as the composite of all actions that Pakistan should take to end the terrorist malaise that has originated from there and has made life difficult for Indians, Pakistanis, Afghans and several countries in the west.
But such dialogue should be entered into only after the Pak military, executive, legislature and the court sign a joint letter authorising an entity or person to enter into such dialogue and be bound by any agreement reached.
^^ Pak-one. We the Paks must learn from the history. Kashmir was bought and sold like real-estate.
Just like in the past, Pakistan should be willing to buy it back. Hari Singh didn't snatch Kashmir from Brits. He bought it.
Similarly Pakistan cannot and should not snatch Kashmir from the current owners. We should first earn enough money and then pay the Indians whatever they ask for.
Let the auction begin.
Say 2 years budget of India - will make it $300 billions or so.
The question is! Are we the Paks willing to first earn and then Pay the Indians?
Wow...I don't know whether your trying to be offensive or just clueless.
again, look who is calling for a vote for others - a country which is frequently taken over by the army and itself hasnt learnt how to vote.
so out of touch with reality, and combined with the jazbaati nature of your approach. hardly practical.
On the first point, it is not the Pakistani state that is the basis for a plebscite, but rather the norms of partition time British India. So Pakistan may not have learned how to vote, but that is not relevant to the expression of the desires of the Kashmiri people. Besides any practical voting would be administrated by the UN or similar body.
On the second point, sure it might be jazbati but its also grounded in the unfinished business of history. In order for true Pakistan-India dialogue to move forward, the Kashmir issue must be resolved.
Wow...I don't know whether your trying to be offensive or just clueless.
60 saal ho ga-aay same sentence repeat kurtay kurtay.
And then you call others clueless. Wah ji wah.
Russi jal ga-ee bul na gaya.
Re: Composite Dialogue
Civil Discourse means you have the right to say what you want. It does not mean I have to listen to your bull****. Very big difference.
60 saal ho ga-aay same sentence repeat kurtay kurtay.
And then you call others clueless. Wah ji wah.
Russi jal ga-ee bul na gaya.
Once again, I am with Burqa on this. While morally, we have a good case on Kashmir, but the reality is jis lathi us ki bhains.
We need to have a quite eastern frontier, as who knows whats about in to happen in our west in Afghanistan, not to mention that nutcase Ahmadi-Nejad.
Some times discretion is the better part of valour.
But Queer and the other Indians know in there heart that no a single Kashmiri wants to stay with India. Morally they don't have an argument.
On the second point, sure it might be jazbati but its also grounded in the unfinished business of history. In order for true Pakistan-India dialogue to move forward, the Kashmir issue must be resolved.
Maybe Pakistan should pave the way by allowing "Azaad" Kashmir to be truly "Azaad" before asking for a plebiscite in Indian Kashmir.