Should India be trusted? After all this move is because they have lost influence in Afghanistan, the US is forcing them to come to the table to discuss issues with us.
Additionally do you believe that Pakistan and India can have peace if the Kashmir dispute is solved to the wishes of the Kashmiri people?
Re: Composite Dialogue
I guess the level of hatred with be lower, and India knows this that is Kashmir has to go then there are other provinces/states which might leave the Indian union, so India would never ever come to any decision which solves the issue according to the will of the people of the valley...
And again, the dialogues shall be for the sake of dialogue and single murder kind of incident will provoke India and they will leave the PEACE-PROCESS and things will move to square-one...
The so-called composite dialogue was on for i don't know how many years and what came out of it? Nothing!!!
Re: Composite Dialogue
Talking is better then confrontation
Re: Composite Dialogue
Not always. Considering the person you wish to speak with is hell bent on destorying you and does not show you an annouce of respect. In that case it is not better.
As an Indian, I am opposed to composite dialogs. Not because I'm against peace nor because I hold animus towards Pakistan, but because we keep reinventing the same wheel over and over again. Three times now, peace dialogs have produced the exact same road map forward. Successive Indian and Pakistani governments have come to the same conclusions and to the same resolutions.
Composite dialogs are simply a way for lazy governments to placate themselves.
Everyone knows what needs to be done, the time now is to do them.
If our leaders are to lead, then lead they must. They must sell the hard truths to the populous. All of us in this forum, with the benefit of education, know that Pakistan and India are tied at the hip. Though culturally different, economically we have a common future.
Of late, there is one thought that has been brewing in the Indian circles that I like very much. Instead of shallow and meaningless confidence building measures, it calls for a bold step by India. India should, without reciprocity and conditions, extend most favored nation status to Pakistan and open the Indian markets to Pakistani goods without tariffs and taxes. The economic impact to the Indian market would be marginal, but would have an immediate and measurable impact on the Pakistani economy.
It's high time we stop living in 1948 and move into 2010.
Should India be trusted?
Not under any circumstances... PEROID......
Re: Composite Dialogue
No, India can not be trusted. It has a history of hegemony in the region and is blind to realities on the ground.
I don’t see the Kashmir issue being solved unless there is a greater regional confrontation which brings other nations like China into the picture. The only way Kashmir can solved is when Pakistani military boots are on the ground in Srinagar. Even at that point, it would be our responsibility to conduct a plebiscite.
If the Kashmir issue is solved, the best we can hope for is a cold peace with India. I don’t have any issues with the average Indian, however their govt’s actions directly threaten the existence of the fatherland, which is why we have to be realistic.
No, India can not be trusted. It has a history of hegemony in the region and is blind to realities on the ground.
I don’t see the Kashmir issue being solved unless there is a greater regional confrontation which brings other nations like China into the picture. The only way Kashmir can solved is when Pakistani military boots are on the ground in Srinagar. Even at that point, it would be our responsibility to conduct a plebiscite.
If the Kashmir issue is solved, the best we can hope for is a cold peace with India. I don’t have any issues with the average Indian, however their govt’s actions directly threaten the existence of the fatherland, which is why we have to be realistic.
Pakistan has tried this several times, and it has not worked. Kargil is a blatant and obvious example. It did nothing but push China further away and further alienate Arab support. This simply will not work. Moreover, after the Mumbai attacks, which India did a very good job of internationalizing, Pakistan has lost a lot of good will of the Chinese. Like in the US, while the attack was happening, it was continuously airing on Chinese cable television.
India's trade with China is growing by leaps and bounds. China, India, along with Brazil, are becoming an economic block, in terms of international treaties. It was India and China that worked together to block measures that would have been detrimental in the Brussels. China and India are going to have a free trade agreement, it's not a matter of if, but when.
Moreover, India and China are working together towards resolution of borders.
What I find very interesting is that Chinese and Indian forums regularly get together and sponsor debates where Chinese and Indians discuss relations. It amazes me that Indians and Pakistanis, barring high level delegations, never even talk.
Not under any circumstances... PEROID......
Trust is something that has to be earned, by both sides. I submit, neither should trust each other. But that does not mean we can't have peace.
Not always. Considering the person you wish to speak with is hell bent on destorying you and does not show you an annouce of respect. In that case it is not better.
Who says what? ever looked inwards at the jihadis you breed.
Re: Composite Dialogue
i remember when vajpayee went to pakistan and held talks, there was a similar thread on GS - “can we trust hindu”
right when the talks were being held, pakistan went behind india’s back and started kargil operations.
and again, shamelessly the question arises, can we trust india.
there is no trusting pakistan because when politicans talk, the army and ISI does something totally different. there is no point in holding any serious dialog with a government which can’t control its agencies. this will be another series of jokes.
Re: Composite Dialogue
A more pertinent question is "Can India trust Pakistan" ? I think not, given Pak's actions in the past. Its pretty obvious that elements that control the Pak establishment do not want peace with India.
Should India be trusted? After all this move is because they have lost influence in Afghanistan, the US is forcing them to come to the table to discuss issues with us.
i have a question, should Pakistan be trusted.. crap not Pakistani's the establishment? As far Indian lost influence in Afghanistan concerned, that's a short call, I don't see it yet, Kiyani is crying these days around the clock.. with tear in his eyes.. awww.. we want influence in afghanistan... help us.. kick india out.. what a pity.
Well let's suppose Indian got kicked from Afghanistan, then what? Can you turn around the personal hatred of normal Afghani people for all the mass murdering which our STRATEGIC SHYT (depth) policy brings in last 30 years?
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Additionally do you believe that Pakistan and India can have peace if the Kashmir dispute is solved to the wishes of the Kashmiri people?
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From China to Arab Countries, and Turkey to USA, no one will support a war with India over the Kashmir issue, because they know if a war is started Pak Army will be defeated conventionally in first 24 hours and then we are going to use Nukes.
Here 's the question for you, does Kashmiri's want's to live with Pakistan after they got freedom from India?
So what would you suggest. The status quo will lead to war. Do you realy think a nuclear war is a good option.
The only way Kashmir can solved is when Pakistani military boots are on the ground in Srinagar. Even at that point, it would be our responsibility to conduct a plebiscite.
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Yaar Laley,
Do you really think that will ever happen. Come on, be realistic. And these patakhes in Pune or Jaipur or anywhere else don't help the cause of the Kashmiris either.
Re: Composite Dialogue
status quo will not lead to war - open aggression such as kargil leads to war (even with talks, as was the case then). pakistan is too busy on the western front for open aggression, india is too busy growing to risk a war and ruin its ticket out of poverty.
i highly suggest holding negotiations between the two countries only on cross-border trade to boost economic interdependence. and a moratorium on family and visitor visas until this trade reaches a certain target dollar figure.
status quo will not lead to war - open aggression such as kargil leads to war (even with talks, as was the case then). pakistan is too busy on the western front for open aggression, india is too busy growing to risk a war and ruin its ticket out of poverty.
i highly suggest holding negotiations between the two countries only on cross-border trade to boost economic interdependence. and a moratorium on family and visitor visas until this trade reaches a certain target dollar figure.
Queer,
I think you are wrong that the status quo will not lead to war. Things are tense, and anything could cause an escalation, and there are enough jingoistics people on both sides. So its really important that talks start to reduce some of this tension.
And if you really think cross border trade will increase in these circumstances, then you are dreaming. There is already a moratorium on family and visitor visas, and yet you have had this further attack. None of the terrorist came on a visit visa. All you are doing to stop elderly people visiting there relatives in India. The Jihadis are relying on Arab and western Muslims anyway, as they know how restricted Pakistanis are in India.
And the Indian establishment is so hypocrital, as they do little to deal with the UAE and Qatar, who are bigger sources of terrorism in India. Yet Emaar and Q-Gas have signed major deals in India. Dawood Ebrahim has spent most of his time in Dubai, and not Karachi. The Emirates inteligence service has close links with Abdul Rahman Makki, the new LET supremo. So stop Paki bashing and take on real enemies, the Gulf Arabs.
i disagree strongly. jingoistic people have always been around, and they will always be around. the times india and pakistan have gone to war, it has been for specific aims - gaining territory, splitting the country etc. and the reason we havent had open war since 1971 is because it is apparent that neither country can gain an inch of land through open conflict. there is not much chance of war with status quo, all the more so since the head honcho USA is actively present in the region and needs pakistan for its “war on terror.” 
The only way Kashmir can solved is when Pakistani military boots are on the ground in Srinagar. Even at that point, it would be our responsibility to conduct a plebiscite.
In other words, the Kashmir issue can never be resolved ? I am really surprised that you are so concerned about Kashmir which is Indian territory when you are unable to control the territory which is still yours.
Remember - "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush".
Rather than salivate about Kashmir, think about consolidating and improving what you have.
Re: Composite Dialogue
LMAO! Indian Territory.After Palestine, Kashmir has the most UNSC resolutions questioning its status. Sure Indian territory
As always Indians your views are not appreciated nor are they wanted.
Since the majority views state that India can not be trusted and after this Pune Blast should we expect anything to occur on Feb 25 that would move the peace dialogue forward? And what should our contingency plans be in the case where India walks away yet again?
Re: Composite Dialogue
India should ignore Pakistan until Pakistan can get their governance together. Starting from the last few years of the Musharaf regime, there has been no 'government' in Pakistan. Each junta simply makes up its own rules and undo that of the previous ones.
Given this reality, I think India should simply defend our own borders, keep the pressure on whoever is in power in Islamabad to curtain cross-border activities and watch for terrorists.
Finally, it should be made clear ONCE AGAIN that Kashmir is a place in India. Just because Pakistanis think it should be something to 'discuss' it doesn't mean we have to. Let them discuss it amongst themselves all they want. Who cares.