Re: Compilation of Quran vs Hadith
^ rebutting you involves further questioning and thats what we did
for u mathematical formula is a religious dogma so i guess its hard to reason with blind devotion
at the very least give the sources for ur theories
Re: Compilation of Quran vs Hadith
One thing i DO see happening or will happen in this thread and other forums .. i ve seen .. that when it comes to threads like this … Open blasphemy happens ..esp if the issue is that whether the quran that is with is 100% as it came ..? ofcorse it is .. which Idiot believes it aint .. I gotta knw you and shoot ya myself in the head 
sorry to say ..
anyways, i d contribute but i wudnt want to reply to blasphemous replies ..which in return makes me an equal idiot ..so no thankx … however, in terms of hadith ..yes there can be opinions ..BUT even then ..who on earth are we to discuss how hadith have come to us .. when the like sof Imam bukhari, Muslim, ibn Maajah, abu dawood etc etc etc .. have already done their research and now we on some forum 100’s years later.. discuss if it came to us the correct way ..
..mein to idher beth kar 
peeon ga 
This thread was not about rebuttal. It was about relaying historical information about the compilation of Quran and Hadith. As far as hadith go a good job has already been done in this thread. We are now onto Quran. Everyone here believes in Quran. What is being discussed is how was it compiled and propagated to us. The sources who undertook the task.
Re: Compilation of Quran vs Hadith
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Can posters contribute their knowledge about the compilation of Quran and the sources of specific verses for Quran and their narraters
and i want to ask the question again why is that some muslims are so skeptical wrt hadith but agree readily that Quran every word is 100 % accurate.Although BOTH have come down to us via the contributions of the pious salaf
[/QUOTE]
Restarting this thread, these questions remained unanswered
Re: Compilation of Quran vs Hadith
Can posters contribute their knowledge about the compilation of Quran and the sources of specific verses for Quran and their narraters
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and i want to ask the question again why is that some muslims are so skeptical wrt hadith but agree readily that Quran every word is 100 % accurate.Although BOTH have come down to us via the contributions of the pious salaf.
We are now onto Quran. Everyone here believes in Quran. What is being discussed is how was it compiled and propagated to us. The sources who undertook the task.
Re: Compilation of Quran vs Hadith
This looks like a good website resource,
Re: Compilation of Quran vs Hadith
I only want to ask a simple question the Quran you and the hadees you read who told the difference that this is Quran and this is Hadees???????? will somebody like to answer me plzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Re: Compilation of Quran vs Hadith
To the thread starter: Quran was compiled in the presence and agreement of dozens of Huffaz who memorized and recited Quran on daily basis. The compilation and organization of the Quranic Chapters in current order was decided with consensus of those pious souls, as that is how they saw Prophet SAW reciting Quran. With a whole Army of 70 full time (ashaabe suffa) dedicated for memorizing and learning Quranic science directly from Prophet himself, and most of them contributed in compilation project, the human error was next to impossible, as there would have been conflict (if no consensus) while all companions were around. Hence the promise of Allah in Quran to preserve and secure His book.
Zarvan, I forgot the name but the who 'writing the verses and compilation' is discussed in great details in a book dedicated for this science. Prophet SAW will tell the writers the order and sequence of the verses himself and name the Surah. Later he read Surah as chapters during prayers as he dictated. That was enough proof for companions and they had no doubts.
Re: Compilation of Quran vs Hadith
To the thread starter: Quran was compiled in the presence and agreement of dozens of Huffaz who memorized and recited Quran on daily basis. The compilation and organization of the Quranic Chapters in current order was decided with consensus of those pious souls, as that is how they saw Prophet SAW reciting Quran. With a whole Army of 70 full time (ashaabe suffa) dedicated for memorizing and learning Quranic science directly from Prophet himself, and most of them contributed in compilation project, the human error was next to impossible, as there would have been conflict (if no consensus) while all companions were around. Hence the promise of Allah in Quran to preserve and secure His book.
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yes I agree with you thats the story of the compilation of Quran.But what is the source of this story ? certainly not Quran.Rather early works of Seerah, thats why I think Seerah traditions are the most important pillar of religion
Re: Compilation of Quran vs Hadith
I agree, the Seerah is very important, as in one saying of Prophet SAW where he said he is leaving among us Quran and his Seerah and ordered to follow it. The hadeeth science was developed and mastered by the early scholars to protect the tradition of Prophet SAW, hence we can see that hadeeth with broken chains were eliminated from Sahih on the basis of a single narrator who is not trustworthy.
For the munkireen-e-hadeeth, may Allah guide them, there will always a group of people creating doubts and trouble in the deen (be it in the name of pure tawheed and following Quran only etc). They would highlight the difficult to understand hadeeth or dhaeef hadeeth and reject hadeeth as a whole. As a result I have seen some of them go and try to belittle Prophet SAW himself and its a clear sign of their weak Imaan. The ignorance turns into arrogance and they think Prophet SAW was just a messenger who delivered the Quran, so now its between Allah and a Muslim only and Allah will judge him only on what is in Quran. Where the love and following Prophet SAW comes right after Tawheed and is the cornerstone of faith in Islam. A momin will love every inch of Prophet's life, his way of talk, walk, his smile, his anger, his love, his prayers, his warship, his mercy, his dealing with others, every aspect of his life.
So whatever is of benefit take it, and leave the rest to Allah. Believers will always look for the examples of Khadija, Ali and Abubakar (RA) stories of their shahadah when they first heard the truth from Prophet. Whatever was said was enough for them and they didn't ask a second question and did not hesitate. Like the incident when Prophet came back from Mairaj and people told Abubakar about it and how he responded without giving a second thought, that earned him the title of Siddique. The way 13 year old Ali responded to Prophet SAW's call in front of hostile Quresh.
Those who have fitna in their nature will always look to create yet another faction in Islam. This has been the case for last 1400 years and don't know how many will unearth before Qiyamaah.
Re: Compilation of Quran vs Hadith
I agree, the Seerah is very important, as in one saying of Prophet SAW where he said he is leaving among us Quran and his Seerah and ordered to follow it. The hadeeth science was developed and mastered by the early scholars to protect the tradition of Prophet SAW, hence we can see that hadeeth with broken chains were eliminated from Sahih on the basis of a single narrator who is not trustworthy.
For the munkireen-e-hadeeth, may Allah guide them, there will always a group of people creating doubts and trouble in the deen (be it in the name of pure tawheed and following Quran only etc). They would highlight the difficult to understand hadeeth or dhaeef hadeeth and reject hadeeth as a whole. As a result I have seen some of them go and try to belittle Prophet SAW himself and its a clear sign of their weak Imaan. The ignorance turns into arrogance and they think Prophet SAW was just a messenger who delivered the Quran, so now its between Allah and a Muslim only and Allah will judge him only on what is in Quran.
Sir you raised a very good point, I have also noticed that munkir-e-Hadees and Munkir-e-Rasool (pbuh) are among us and their network is stronger than we can imagine.
For example:
A man named Muhammad Muhsin khan has translated nine volumes of Sahih Bukhari in English, and its getting sold in the west right and left through aggressive advertisement all over the internet and public places (universities, etc). Even though he calls himself a salafi "scholar" he has no authority on religion. He served as a health minister in Saudi Arab for fifteen years. He is also an integral part of "Center for Jewish-Muslim Engagement" in south California. However, he has no religious credentials. If you compare the English translation with original Sahih Bukhari, you will see a world of a difference. There are many additions and many subtractions. Especially, if you read the chapter on marriage, some of the traditions and hadiths make one think whether the author is really talking about Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) or some ordinary man, they are outright disrespectful. These translated copies are being sold everywhere through aggressive marketing.
This is just one example. I think Sunni and Shia ulema (scholars) need to sit together and come up with a certification process for websites and books. So people will only buy books and read websites that have seal of certification, and not get misguided by so-called Muslim scholars. For the guidance of younger generations this step will be of paramount importance.