Sunan of Abu-Dawood Hadith 4953 Narrated by Sufyan ibn Asid al-Hadrami
I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) say:** It is great treachery that you should tell your brother something and have him believe you when you are lying. **
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 8.117 Narrated by Abu Huraira
Allah's Apostle said, ** "The signs of a hypocrite are three: Whenever he speaks, he tells a lie; ** and whenever he promises, he breaks his promise; and whenever he is entrusted, he betrays (proves to be dishonest)."
Al-Muwatta Hadith Hadith 56.16
Malik related to me that he heard that Abdullah ibn Masud used to say, "You must tell the truth. Truthfulness leads to right action. Right action leads to the Garden. ** Beware of lying. Lying leads to corruption, and corruption leads to the Fire.** Don't you see that it is said, 'He speaks the truth and acts rightly,' and, 'He lies and is corrupt.' "
A1shah, I guess that taqiyah nature of yours will NEVER cease, since you believe you are at war with your enemy.
So let me spell this out for you.
First you posted Sahih Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 57, Number 116: Narrated Abu Wail:
Which had the following words
but Allah has put you to test, whether you will follow Him (i.e. Allah) or her (i.e Aisha)."
And based on these words you were trying to say that Aisha (ra) was going against Allah (swt) and Muslims too had a choice either to follow Aisha (ra) or to follow Ali (ra)
When I posted the Hadith that exposes the error of such a notion, you just snipped it away and tried to act as if it meant nothing.
What did I post?
Read!
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 9.221 Narrated by Abu Wail
'Ammar stood on the pulpit at Kufa and mentioned 'Aisha and her coming (to Busra) and said, “She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter, ** but you people are being put to test in this issue.”**
Ibrahim says: Now do you see what is the problem here. The same Narrator reports the same matter to maybe different companion , as such two records are available on this matter by the Grace of Allah (swt) to avoid falling into error.
Let compare what you posted earlier with what I posted!
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 5.116 Narrated by Abu Wail
When 'Ali sent 'Ammar and Al-Hasan to (the people of) Kufa to urge them to fight, 'Ammar addressed them saying, "I know that she (i.e. 'Aisha) is the wife of the Prophet in this world and in the
Hereafter (world to come), ** but Allah has put you to test, whether you will follow Him (i.e. Allah) or her."**
Ibrahim says : NOTE CLEARLY THAT THE NARRATOR ABU WAIL, DID NOT NAME ANY NAMES IN BOTH RECORDS but the compiler or the sub narrator may have understood the word him to be Allah (swt) and those words in brackets cannot be considered as the words of Ammar or Abu Wail.
We can further come to a better understanding to avoid any misconceptions by looking at what Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman had to say concerning the same matter.
Read!
Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 6688 Narrated by Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman
Qays reported: ** I said to Ammar: What is your opinion about that which you have done in case (of your siding with Ali)? ** Is it your personal opinion or something you got from Allah’s Apostle? ** Ammar said: We have got nothing from Allah’s Apostle which people at large did not get, but Hudhayfah told me that Allah`s Apostle (peace be upon him) had especially told him amongst his Companion, that there are twelve hypocrites out of whom eight would not get into Paradise,** until a camel would be able to pass through the needle hole. The ulcer would be itself sufficient (to kill) eight. (So far as four are concerned, I do not remember what Shu’bah said about them.)
Ibrahim says: Thus from the above hadiths we can say Ammar took the side of Ali (ra) based on his own good intentions and what he conveyed to the people of Kufa was simply ** “ you people are being put to test in this issue."**
On the other hand what you have been trying to do is to slander the wife of the Prophet (pbuh) based on your ignorance of the other hadiths concerning this matter. .
Ibrahim says: So I went to that site and posted one hadith above in that chain of hadiths which tell us as to why the Prophet (pbuh) had said those words to Ali (ra)
BUT to my surprise, you try to act is If that was the first time you read that hadith and what a wonderful hadith it is and start thanking me for it!!
Honestly A1shah, if you tell me you went to that web site and post hadith 5916 and did not read 5915
Who would want to believe you??
Please, are you telling us you shifted through all the hadiths and ended up with only 5916 and NEVER had any awareness of hadith 5915 in that same chain?
Hadith 5915 clearly tells us why the Prophet tried to console Ali (ra) by saying ** “Aren’t you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses?**
Read again what I highlighted in hadith 5915 in case your mind is incapable of digesting such details.
I heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) say about ** 'Ali as he left behind hrin in one of his campaigns (that was Tabuk). 'Ali said to him: Allah’s Messenger, you leave me behind along with women and children. ** Thereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to him: Aren’t you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there is no Prophet hood after me.
So that statement was meant to console Ali (ra) that he is considered highly and not left behind to look after woman and children only.
That is why you have to be considered a liar ( which I have proven in other threads too)
Ibrahim says A1sah you keep making a mockery of yourself. Some times I wonder If you have any conscience left in you.
But that was the most silliest argument ever and not worth my time. Sorry as I said before you are indeed a ** “self deluding soul” **
Was salaam
Ibrahim
b} Stick to LOVE. HATE is too great a burden to bear! **
May Allah (swt) forgive you for using harsh words and accusing others of lying.
Let the discussion be held in a cordial and respectful manner, as commanded by the holy qur'an.
Your presumption that the holy prophet (pbuh) only meant his statement for a specific period of time as a consolation holds no substance. Rather, the hadith you quote was a reminder to Imam Ali (as) of his status vis a vis the holy prophet (pbuh).
For this, you must understand the qur'an to see specifically when Musa (as) prayed to Allah (swt) to ask for Harun (as).
[Pickthal 7:142] And when We did appoint for Moses thirty nights (of solitude), and added to them ten, and he completed the whole time appointed by his Lord of forty nights; and Moses said unto his brother, Aaron: Take my place among the people. Do right, and follow not the way of mischief-makers.
[Yusufali 20:29] "And give me a Minister from my family,
[Yusufali 20:30] "Aaron, my brother;
[Yusufali 20:31] "Add to my strength through him,
[Yusufali 20:32] "And make him share my task:
[Yusufali 20:33] "That we may celebrate Thy praise without stint,
[Yusufali 20:34] "And remember Thee without stint:
[Yusufali 20:35] "For Thou art He that (ever) regardeth us." Yusufali 20:36 said: "Granted is thy prayer, O Moses!"
This was the relationship between Musa (as) and Harun (as). AND THIS IS THE RELATIONSHIP THE HOLY PROPHET (PBUH) WAS CONVEYING.
The Prophet (PBUH&HF) thereby meant that as Moses had left behind Aaron to
look after his people when he went to Miqaat (meeting Allah), in the same
way he was leaving Ali behind to look after the affairs of Islam after he
met Allah (i.e., his death).
Let this reminder be food of thought for the
possessors of pure heart and open mind.
The above verses of Quran concerning Aaron show that even the prophet does
not assign his deputy/successor, and it is rather Allah who does that.
Prophet Moses prayed to Allah and requested that Aaron becomes his deputy,
and Allah approved the suggestion/request of Prophet Moses (AS).
And after Musa (as) departed to his heavenly abode, Harun (as) continued and became the leader of his community.
According to your argument, Harun should only have been the leader of his community for a SPECIFIC period of time - while Musa (as) was meeting Allah (swt).
However, as you well know, this is not so. His election at becoming Musa's (as) minister led Harun to become the prophet and learder of his community after Musa (as).
This is why the holy prophet (pbuh) stressed that EXCEPT FOR BEING A PROPHET, Imam Ali's (as) relationship to the prophet (pbuh) was EXACTLY THE SAME AS the relationship between Musa (as) and Harun (as).
Now you can refer to the qur'an to tell you what that relationship was.
This is the wisdom behind the holy prophet's (pbuh) saying, as it is all but a wahi from Allah (swt):
[Shakir 53:3] Nor does he speak out of desire.
[Shakir 53:4] It is naught but revelation that is revealed
Also, please read what Imam Ali (as) says in his sermon above to understand the situation during the times of the first 3 caliphas.
May Allah (swt) guide those who seek the truth.
ws
[This message has been edited by a1shah (edited January 17, 2002).]
[quote]
Ibrahim; May Allah (swt) forgive you for using harsh words and accusing others of lying. Let the discussion be held in a cordial and respectful manner, as commanded by the holy qur'an.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: a1shah, answer the question!
Are you telling us you shifted through all the hadiths and ended up with only 5916 and NEVER had any awareness of hadith 5915 in that same chain?
I made it clear to you that you used the hadiths and try to twist the meanings to slander the wife of the Prophet (pbuh) and also to post the nonsense slandering the companions from the shia fabrications (Nahjul Balagah)
So If you think that is not a deception or a lie, that is your problem not mine. So far as I am concerned I reveal what I see with clarity from your works in this thread.
Instead of attesting to your sincerity you skip the issue and continue with your nonsense of splicing verses from the Qur’an to get your absurd picture.
I already made it clear to you your arguments are too silly to give any validity for them.
** Your intention as always is to slander the Ahlul Bait and the companions and relatives of the Prophet (Pbuh). In this manner you wish to cast doubt on the Qur’an .**
I assure you by the will and Grace of Allah (swt) you will be the loser all the time.
Was salaam
Ibrahim
** He who STOPS GETTING BETTER ceases being GOOD. **
I think we must take note that the Hadith - is not a Hadith Qudsi, neither is it a narration from Rasullullah (sas).
I may be mistaken, and Allah forgive and guide me if I am - but from what i understand the views of those of us who accept the Righteously Guided Khaliphs...and who love the Ahl ul Bayt and the Companions (may Allah be well pleased with them)...
The battle of Jamal was an issue in which Imam Hanbal(ra) has said we should not comment upon. The divisons arose out of Ijtihad. Ali(ra) did what was the right action at the time, and those that opposed him believed they were right in their judgement.
In the Quran, Allah(swt) has said he will remove any rancour from the breasts of these beloved companions on the Day of Judgement. So surely we leave it to the instruction of our Holy Book.
Indeed after the Battle, Hadrat Aisha(ra) was treated with respect by Hadrat Ali(ra), thus showing the noble characterstics of the Best Generation that has lived.
Thus returning to the subject of the Thread - which was the Sahaaba (ra).
Important to note in this hadith, from brother Ibrahim's post:
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 9.221 Narrated by Abu Wail
'Ammar stood on the pulpit at Kufa and mentioned 'Aisha and her coming (to Busra) and said, "She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter, but you people are being put to test in this issue."
why would people ignore or refute highlighted part of this hadith? They'll conveniently beleive in one part and ignore the other. hmmmmmmmm.... what is the objective, hmmmmmm....
May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right
[This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited January 17, 2002).]
Please tell me where can I find a copy of Nahjul Balagah?
What is your proof that it is a source deemed as authentic by both shia and sunni scholars?
I find the following totally unbelievable & against the very nature of Hazrat Ali (ra) as I have understood him reading the history of Islam:
[quote]
Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death). I found that endurance thereon was wiser. So I adopted patience although there was pricking in the eye and suffocation (of mortification) in the throat. I watched the plundering of my inheritance till the first one went his way but handed over the Caliphate to Ibn al-Khattab after himself.
[/quote]
The 12 year old who stood up alone to voice his allegiance with beloved AnHazoor (saw) when the entire 'Mecca' was against him. The one who was well known for his bravery, self-esteem and stead fastness, so much so that he was named 'Lion of Allah' .. how can the same Lion accept the blinding darkness of tribulations without a fight?
[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
** Important to note ** in this hadith, from brother Ibrahim's post:
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 9.221 Narrated by Abu Wail
'Ammar stood on the pulpit at Kufa and mentioned 'Aisha and her coming (to Busra) and said, "She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter, but you people are being put to test in this issue."
why would people ignore or refute highlighted part of this hadith? They'll conveniently beleive in one part and ignore the other. hmmmmmmmm.... what is the objective, hmmmmmm....
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: salaams to all
Very Good point and something the Shia ( rejecters of Islam) would NEVER be able to accept . Jazak Allahu Khair Changez_like for pointing this simple but most important TRUTH.
In addition ** another important point** is in Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 6688 Narrated by Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman
Qays reported: I said to Ammar: What is your opinion about that which you have done in case ** (of your siding with Ali)? ** Is it your personal opinion or something you got from Allah's Apostle? ** Ammar said: We have got nothing from Allah's Apostle which people at large did not get,** but Hudhayfah told me that Allah`s Apostle (peace be upon him) had especially told him amongst his Companion, that there are twelve hypocrites out of whom eight would not get into Paradise, until a camel would be able to pass through the needle hole. The ulcer would be itself sufficient (to kill) eight. (So far as four are concerned, I do not remember what Shu'bah said about them.)
Ibrahim says: ** which clearly means Ali (ra) was NEVER appointed by the Prophet (pbuh) as his successor and all of them had the same Qur’an as what we have today and the Shia claim that their Qur’an is 3 times bigger or they have the only authentic hadiths is just another shia invention to deceive Muslims at large. **
Was salaam
Ibrahim
** who dares to teach must NEVER cease to LEARN **
[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
**Important to note in this hadith, from brother Ibrahim's post:
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 9.221 Narrated by Abu Wail
'Ammar stood on the pulpit at Kufa and mentioned 'Aisha and her coming (to Busra) and said, "She is the wife of your Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter, but you people are being put to test in this issue."
why would people ignore or refute highlighted part of this hadith? They'll conveniently beleive in one part and ignore the other. hmmmmmmmm.... what is the objective, hmmmmmm....**
[/quote]
Brother Changez;
I'm sure that you do not believe what you are trying to convey.
All shias accept that Aisha was the wife of the holy prophet (pbuh). This is not the issue.
Aisha is Umm Momineen - Mother of the Faithful.
This is a title which all wives of the prophet (pbuh) got, as stated in the qur'an.
Being Mothers of the Faithful dis-allowed muslims from marrying them after the death of the holy prophet (pbuh) and were obliged to treat them with respect. But it does not give a muslim the right to dis-obey Allah (swt) and his prophet (pbuh) by deliberately following those wives that were not righteous, or that were known to deviate from the path of Allah (swt) and his prophet (pbuh).
Shias do not deny this fact. They only say that Aisha was not faithful to the teachings of the qur'an and the holy prophet (pbuh). This can be ascertained from the qur'an as well as her behaviour during and after the lifetime of our beloved rasul (pbuh).
Please note that Allah (swt) does not tell us to obey the wives of the prophet (pbuh) unconditionally, as they are themselves strictly warned in the qur'an against doing bad deeds. As such, the possibility of good and bad wives (in terms of their behavior and intention) does exist and is supported by the qur'an.
We respect Aisha as the wife of the prophet (pbuh) but say that her way and teachings do not guide to the path of truth. Intepreting the sunnah of the holy prophet (pbuh) through suspect individuals can lead to mis-guidance.
Umm Momineen Khadija and Umm Salma are examples of righteous wives of the holy rasul (pbuh), amonst others.
If someone teaches us not to question Aisha's motives and behavior during her life time, such as in the Battle of Jamal, I would be suspicious of such motives.
In order to say someone is righteous, they must have a history of such righteous actions.
Blindly following someone is not what Islam teaches us.
ws
[This message has been edited by a1shah (edited January 17, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by a1shah (edited January 17, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
** Ibrahim says: salaams to all
Very Good point and something the Shia ( rejecters of Islam) would NEVER be able to accept . Jazak Allahu Khair Changez_like for pointing this simple but most important TRUTH.
In addition ** another important point** is in Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 6688 Narrated by Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman
Qays reported: I said to Ammar: What is your opinion about that which you have done in case ** (of your siding with Ali)? ** Is it your personal opinion or something you got from Allah's Apostle? ** did not get,** but Hudhayfah told me that Allah`s Apostle (peace be upon him) had especially told him amongst his Companion, that there are twelve hypocrites out of whom eight would not get Ammar said: We have got nothing from Allah's Apostle which people at large into Paradise, until a camel would be able to pass through the needle hole. The ulcer would be itself sufficient (to kill) eight. (So far as four are concerned, I do not remember what Shu'bah said about them.)
Ibrahim says: ** which clearly means Ali (ra) was NEVER appointed by the Prophet (pbuh) as his successor and all of them had the same Qur’an as what we have today and the Shia claim that their Qur’an is 3 times bigger or they have the only authentic hadiths is just another shia invention to deceive Muslims at large. **
Was salaam
Ibrahim
** who dares to teach must NEVER cease to LEARN **
**
[/quote]
Ibrahim;
All hadiths that contradict the holy qur'an must be rejected.
On what basis do you think Ammar said that he did not get anything from the prophet (pbuh) regarding Imam Ali (as) when the very hadith we are talking about, whereby the holy prophet (pbuh) said Imam Ali (as) is to him what Aaron was to Musa (as), is present ?
This hadith that you have mentioned is called hadith-ul-manzila : when the prophet (p.) went to tabuk in the 9th year a.h., he left imam ali (a.) in madina and said " wouldn't you like to be to me as haroon (a.) was to moses (a.)?" sahih bukhari vol :5 p. 24, cairo. sahih muslim adds to this report the following phrase, " but there would be no prophet after me ". sahih muslim vol : 7 p. 120, cairo. the prophet muhammad (p.), in this report, appointed imam ali (a.) as moses (a.) appointed haroon (a.).
The holy qur'an defines the relationship between haroon (a.) and moses (a.) as follows :
a) Succession : the holy qur'an says:-
" moses says to his brother haroon, succeed me among my people and righteous and do not follow the way or mischievous people". (7 :142).
b)Help : the holy qur'an says:-
" Appoint for me a helper from my family, haroon my brother ".
(20 :29-30).
c) Consultant : the holy qur'an says:-
" and consult him in my affairs ". ( 20-32).
Therefore, all of the mentioned in the holy qur'an should be for imam ali (a.) as it was for haroon.
If you understand the qur'an, you will understand what the position of Imam Ali (as) is to the holy prophet (pbuh).
In addition to this, we have from sunni Sahih sources:
hadith-ul-thaqalain : the prophet (p.) said, " o, people ! i am a human being, i am going to die and i leave two valuable things among you, one is the book of allah, in it you find guidance and light ". then said, " and my family (ahl-ul-bayt), i remind you, the ahl-ul-bayt three times". see sahih muslim vol :7 p. 121.
And also, again from ahl-sunnat sources:
hadith-ul-ghadir : it is a place between mecca and madina in which the prophet (p.) gave a ceremony on 18th dhul hijjah 10th a.h. zaid ibn arqam says that we went with the prophet (p.) to the valley called vadi khum . he asked us to pray, then he gave a speech in which he said, " don't you know, don't you witness that i am the leader of every believer "? they replied, "yes". then he said, " **whomever i an the leader of , ali (a.) would be his leader. o' lord ! be enemy of his enemy and be helper of his followers "*. see musnad ahmed bin hanbal vol : 4 p.
372.
So let the believers judge for themselves which hadith they would like to believe in.
May Allah (swt) bless our holy prophet (pbuh) and his ahl-bait (as).
ws
We, Ahlul Bayt (chosen descendants of the Holy Prophet), hold such central and balancing position in religion that those who are deficient in understanding and acting upon its principles, will have to come to us for reformation, and those who are overdoing it have got to learn moderation from us.
Imam Ali (as)
[This message has been edited by a1shah (edited January 17, 2002).]
A1shah , it is disgusting to note that you can even switch and rearrange hadiths in order to deceive maybe?
Note: Ibrahim posted this :-
In addition another important point is in Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 6688 Narrated by Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman
Qays reported: I said to Ammar: What is your opinion about that which you have done in case (of your siding with Ali)? ** Is it your personal opinion or something you got from Allah's Apostle? Ammar said: We have got nothing from Allah's Apostle which people at large did not get, **but Hudhayfah told me that Allah`s Apostle (peace be upon him) had especially told him amongst his Companion, that there are twelve hypocrites out of whom eight would not get into Paradise, until a camel would be able to pass through the needle hole. The ulcer would be itself sufficient (to kill) eight. (So far as four are concerned, I do not remember what Shu'bah said about them.)
A1sah quotes me as saying this…………….
In addition another important point is in Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 6688 Narrated by Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman
Qays reported: I said to Ammar: What is your opinion about that which you have done in case ** (of your siding with Ali)?** Is it your personal opinion or something you got from Allah's Apostle? *did not get, * but Hudhayfah told me that Allah`s Apostle (peace be upon him) had especially told him amongst his Companion, that there are twelve hypocrites out of whom eight would not get Ammar said: We have got nothing from Allah's Apostle which people at large into Paradise, until a camel would be able to pass through the needle hole. The ulcer would be itself sufficient (to kill) eight. (So far as four are concerned, I do not remember what Shu'bah said about them.)
Ibrahim says: A1shah care to explain how the hadiths can be messed up in your quote??
[This message has been edited by Ibrahim (edited January 18, 2002).]
A1shah, my dear, which hadith I quoted is contradicting the Qur’an? Please, you have been trying desperately to link the events and sharia approved for Prophet Musa (pbuh) with Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) . That is due to your ignorance so don’t expect me to follow your line of reasoning.
Ibrahim says: Go and read Hadith 5915, for which I have been questioning you and you keep evading.
When a prophet conveys something to console another that is just that, it does not become a revelation or an appointment to succeed hence after , IF there was a continuation of Prophet hood, or even Priest hood than the successors will be named in the Qur’an as was named in the Bible.
Even If someone is being appointed by Allah (swt) to be the priesthood that too will be conveyed in the Qur’an or by the Prophet (pbuh) in the hadiths.
What you are doing is playing a guessing game due to your corrupted teachings. Let me warn you in Islam we do not guess or conjecture we follow what is revealed in the Qur’an and what is taught by the Prophet (pbuh)
Ibrahim says : A1shah! DONT EDIT OR LIE, when you quote hadiths or the Qur’an, It is a great sin to bear. I have proven this over and over again in this forum but you do not seem to desist and keep altering sacred texts. I pity you, as to the sin you will have to bear for doing this.
Read!
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 5.700 Narrated by Sad
Allah’s Apostle set out for Tabuk. ** appointing 'Ali as his deputy (in Medina).** 'Ali said, ** “Do you want to leave me with the children and women?”** The Prophet said, “Will you not be pleased that you will be to me like Aaron to Moses? But there will be no prophet after me.”
DO YOU NOTICE THE OMISSIONS IN YOUR QUOTE, supposedly from the same reference???
Ibrahim says: Again , you are adding in your conjecture and when you say sahih Muslim has Vol 7 , it amounts to an error for sahih Muslim is linked together. Now I already quoted that hadith in Sahih Muslim . It being 5915 and 5916. so why are you lying again??
Ibrahim says: man, you seem so desperate but I guess it is my fate that I have to deal with you.
Now read!
7: 142 We appointed for Moses thirty nights and completed (the period) with ten (more): thus was completed the term (of communion) with his Lord forty nights. ** And Moses had charged his brother Aaron (before he went up): “Act for me amongst my people:** do right and follow not the way of those who do mischief.”
This is not the same as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did because
Read!
Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 5.700 Narrated by Sad
Allah’s Apostle set out for Tabuk. ** appointing 'Ali as his deputy (in Medina).** 'Ali said, ** “Do you want to leave me with the children and women?”** The Prophet said, “Will you not be pleased that you will be to me like Aaron to Moses? But there will be no prophet after me.”
Ibrahim says: This does not mean after the Prophet (pbuh) returned from his expedition, Ali (ra) remained as his deputy forever.
Ibrahim says : Read!
Surah 20:
25 (Moses) said: “O my Lord! expand me my breast;”
26 "Ease my task for me;
27 ** "And remove the impediment from my speech.
28 "So they may understand what I say:**
29 "And ** give me a Minister ** from my family
30 "Aaron my brother;
31 "Add to my strength through him
32 ** "And make him share my task:**
Ibrahim says: This was the Prayer Prophet Musa (as) made and Allah (swt) granted
Now show me where such a prayer was needed or made by prophet Muhammad (pbuh) ?
Do you understand what remove the impediment from my speech means?
If you don’t , what does that tell us?
Now read!
Exodus 4: 14. Then the LORD’s anger burned against Moses and he said, ** "What about your brother, Aaron the Levite? I know he can speak well.** He is already on his way to meet you, and his heart will be glad when he sees you.
You shall speak to him and put words in his mouth; ** I will help both of you speak and will teach you what to do. **
** He will speak to the people for you,** and it will be as if he were your mouth and as if you were God to him.
Ibrahim says. Thus Musa (as) had problems in his speech and seeked Allah (swt) help to appoint his brother to do the speaking for him.
Did the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had such problems?
Ibrahim says: A1shah! what does a minister means?
Read!
Exodus 28 1. "Have Aaron your brother brought to you from among the Israelites, along with his sons Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, ** so they may serve me as priests. **
Make sacred garments for your brother Aaron, to give him dignity and honor.
Tell all the skilled men to whom I have given wisdom in such matters that they are to make garments for Aaron, for his consecration, ** so he may serve me as priest. **
Ibrahim says: A1shah! Do you now understand why you have been deluded. There is priesthood in Judaism and only a Levite can be a priest, but in Islam, there is no such thing, all people can become an imam. Get it?
The sharia given to the Jews is the sharia the shia want to follow but that is not the sharia of Islam . so I cannot help you If you want to do what you like but Muslims cannot follow you because you have been deceived by the Jew.
Ibrahim says: I give you two translations PLUS transliteration
Yusuf Ali "And make him share my task:
Pickthall And let him share my task,
Transliteration Wa asyrik hu fi amri
Now explain how you came to get the above translation?
Ibrahim says : naaw , you must be kidding, because if anyone took you seriously they will have to kill themselves.
Ibrahim says Oh please, there is NO VOLUME 7 in Sahih Muslim, so tell us about it by quoting the proper reference number.
Ibrahim says : HOT TIP for self deluding souls.
Al-Tirmidhi Hadith Hadith 6221 Narrated by Abdullah ibn Mas’ud
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, ** “When I am gone copy those two of my companions, AbuBakr and Umar, follow the guidance of Ammar, and hold fast to the injunction of Ibn Umm Abd.” ** Hudhayfah’s version says “Believe what Ibn Mas’ud tells you” instead of “Hold fast to the injunction of Ibn Umm Abd.”
The prophet's (pbuh) eloquent words relating Imam Ali (as) to him (pbuh) as Aaron (as) was to Musa (as) AND THEN STATING THAT EXCEPT FOR BEING THE PROPHET (pbuh), their relationship was identical, leaves no doubt in the minds of the believer what the prophet (pbuh) meant. These are very strong words and clear to those who want to see.
Your argument that the prophet's (pbuh) it was specific for a point in time does not have strong foundation, as that is not the same as the relationship between Musa (as) and Harun (as).
The qur'an tells you exactly what the relationship between Aaron and Musa (as) was.
And as for the rest of yr jargon, well, its just that.
You are well aware of the hadith of the two weight things. And quotations from the bible do not impress me. Let's stay with the words of Allah (swt) only.
Discussing this issue any further with you is like a dog chasing its tail.
Let the brothers and sisters on this board decide where the truth lies.
Please tell me where can I find a copy of Nahjul Balagah?
What is your proof that it is a source deemed as authentic by both shia and sunni scholars?
I find the following totally unbelievable & against the very nature of Hazrat Ali (ra) as I have understood him reading the history of Islam:
The 12 year old who stood up alone to voice his allegiance with beloved AnHazoor (saw) when the entire 'Mecca' was against him. The one who was well known for his bravery, self-esteem and stead fastness, so much so that he was named 'Lion of Allah' .. how can the same Lion accept the blinding darkness of tribulations without a fight?**
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Dear sister;
The following famous sunni scholars have guaranteed the authenticity of Najhul Balagah and have used sermons from this eloquent book in their writings.
Sunni Commentators:
Imam Ahmed Ibne Mohammed-ul-Wayree (about 470 A.H.)
Abul Hassan Ali-ibne-Abul Qasim-ul-Ba’ehaquee (565 A.H.)
His commentary is quoted by Moajum-ul-Adibba of Yaqooth-e-Hamveenee Vol 13,page 225, printed in Egypt.
Imam Fakhruddin Razi (606 A.H.)
His commentary is quoted by:
i. Akhbar-ul-Hukama of Ibn-ul-Quftee page 192 printed in Egypt.
ii. Oyoonul—Ambia of Ibn-e-Abi-Sabee’a page 25, printed in Egypt.
Abdul Hameed Hibathullah Mohammed-ibne-Mohammed ibne-Abil Hadeed Moathazalee, (known as Ibne-Abil Hadeed 655 A.H.).
His commentary is a world famous classic covering 17 volumes, printed half-a- dozen times in Cairo, Bairuth, Tehran and Isphehan.
Shaikh kamal-ul-din Abdul Rehman Shaybenee (about 705 A.H.)
Allama Sad-ud-din Taftazanee (797 A.H.)
Quazi of Baghdad Shaikh Quewaam-ud-din
Allama Shaikh Mohammed Abdahoo (1323 A.H.)
His commentary has been printed very often and forms a part of the university course in Cairo and Bairuth.
Ostad (Professor) Mohammed Hassan-ul-Nayer-ul-Musafee of Egypt.
His commentary is printed in Dar-ul-kutub Press Cario (Egypt)
10.Ostad (Professor) Mohammed Mohiuddin Abdul Hameed, Professor of Lexicology of Alazhur University.
His book was printed at Isthequamuth-e-Misr Press, Cairo.
11.Ostad (Professor) Sahikh Abdullah Allayelli-al-Bairoonee of Cairo (Egypt).
You also have to differentiate the role of a Caliph and an Imam (Representative of Allah (swt)).
Imam Ali (as) bore the injustice with patience rather than reort to force since protecting Islam and the work of the holy prophet (pbuh) superceded all other issues.
Islam was in its infancy and if the Imam (as) had fought against the "so-called" elected leaders, there would have been divisions within the ummat, thereby weakening Islam.
Instead, the Imam (as) chose to strenghten islam by spreading the true knowledge of the quran and the teachings of the holy prophet (pbuh) by working with those who usurped power.
And as you well know, if the Imam (as) did want to fight to take control, who could have stopped him ?
No, he chose restraint, for the love of Allah (swt) and his holy prophet (pbuh).
Yet, this does not excuse those who took power unjustly.
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Originally posted by a1shah:
** The following famous sunni scholars have guaranteed the authenticity of Najhul Balagah and have used sermons from this eloquent book in their writings.**
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Nobody can guarantee authenticity. They may confirm to the best of their knowledge. This is another example of your word twisting to prove that a lie is the truth.
In this chain you have also commented on my statement that you do not know Arabic and you do not know Urdu. Am I wrong in this assumption?
You were also asked by ahmadjee where he/she could find Najhul Balagah. You have evaded this inquiry. Can you tell us where we can get it on the internet and, while you are at it, I shall appreciate your telling me where I could get your most revered book "Usul-e-Kafee"
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.
SubhaanAllaah! I can not believe that anyone has the audacity to try and change the words of Allaah (SWT) or his Apostle - salaatu wassalaam 'aleyhim.
Why did you re-phrase and edit this hadeeth a1shah, from its original wording in Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 6688 Narrated by Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman and posted by Ibrahim? The hadeeth reads as...
[quote]
Qays reported: I said to Ammar: What is your opinion about that which you have done in case (of your siding with Ali)? Is it your personal opinion or something you got from Allah's Apostle? Ammar said: We have got nothing from Allah's Apostle which people at large did not get, but Hudhayfah told me that Allah`s Apostle (peace be upon him) had especially told him amongst his Companion, that there are twelve hypocrites out of whom eight would not get into Paradise, until a camel would be able to pass through the needle hole. The ulcer would be itself sufficient (to kill) eight. (So far as four are concerned, I do not remember what Shu'bah said about them.)
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And you changed it to ...
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Qays reported: I said to Ammar: What is your opinion about that which you have done in case (of your siding with Ali)? Is it your personal opinion or something you got from Allah's Apostle? did not get, but Hudhayfah told me that Allah`s Apostle (peace be upon him) had especially told him amongst his Companion, that there are twelve hypocrites out of whom eight would not get Ammar said: We have got nothing from Allah's Apostle which people at large into Paradise, until a camel would be able to pass through the needle hole. The ulcer would be itself sufficient (to kill) eight. (So far as four are concerned, I do not remember what Shu'bah said about them.)
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Originally posted bu Ibrahim: Ibrahim says: A1shah care to explain how the hadiths can be messed up in your quote??
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Yes, i'm sure many of us would be interested to hear the answer to this ...
"No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."
You should realize, and may Allah have mercy upon you, that the narrations about the excellences of `A'ishah are well-established and authentic before the people of knowledge. Let us present a couple of these narrations which are from the beloved People of the Household (Ahlul-Bayt), in order that the honest seeker might find comfort in them, and "that whoever perishes might perish by clear proof, and whoever survives might survive by clear proof." [Qur'an, 8:42]
2.1 On the authority of Ibn Abbas (may Allah be pleased with them both) [it is reported] that he asked permission to enter uponA'ishah (may Allah be pleased with her), but she sent [word] to him [saying], "I feel distress and sorrow, so [please] leave." He said to the messenger, "I am not one who will leave until I have entered [to speak to her]." Then, the messenger went back and informed her of that, whereupon she gave [Ibn Abbas] permission [to enter]. She said, "I feel distress and sorrow, and I am apprehensive on account of that which shall assail me *." Thereupon, IbnAbbas told her, "Receive glad tidings, for by Allah, I heard the Messenger of Allah (may Allah bless him and his Household and grant them peace) saying, "A'ishah is my wife in Heaven," and the Messenger of Allah (may Allah bless him and his Household and grant them peace) was more noble than that Allah should marry him to one of the coals of Hell." Then, she said, "You have freed me [of worry] from me; may Allah free you [from worry]."
Narrated by Imam Abu Hanifah in his Musnad
On the authority of Umm Hani', the sister ofAli ibn Abu talib (may Allah be pleased with them both), it is reported that the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, "O `A'ishah! Your distinguishing mark shall be knowledge and the Qur'an."
O Allah! Guide us to that of the truth regarding which people have differed. Indeed, You guide whom You will to a straight path.
Glory be to You, O Allah, and praise. I testify that there is no god except You, I seek Your forgiveness and repent to You.
And may Allah grant blessings and peace to our master Muhammad, and to his Household and Companions.
[This message has been edited by Mustaqim (edited January 18, 2002).]*
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Originally posted by a1shah:
** .....
All shias accept that Aisha was the wife of the holy prophet (pbuh). This is not the issue.**
have any issue with "wife of your Prophet in this world ain the Hereafter" ??
......**
Please note that Allah (swt) does not tell us to obey the wives of the prophet (pbuh) unconditionally, as they are themselves strictly warned in the qur'an against doing bad deeds. As such, the possibility of good and bad wives (in terms of their behavior and intention) does exist and is supported by the qur'an.**
Did Allah SWT ordered to follow 'ahlul-bayt'??? in which verse?
**
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May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right