For those of you living in a cave. Yesterday 2 high school boys killed 25 people with handguns, semi-automatics and homemade bombs.
My questions
Is this a sign of the decay of society or is it just that our media is much more readily available… therefore we hear of these events more?
Would this happen if guns were not readily available? Would this happen if access to Internet underground anarchist gothic (whatever you want to call it societies) were not available?
Any other comments?
Well, Kashmirigirl,
i think it is just a sign of the times. ppl are more de-sensitised these days, nothing shocks any more. If you look at the old films, (American or Indian) there are different types of heroes now. Old stars were clean cut and law abiding, (Cary Grant, Dilip Kumar). Nowadays the heroes are mobsters and murderers (Goodfellas, Scream).
Boy, have ppl changed a lot in Pakistan too! Kaleshnikovs and shootings...guess it's just a sign of the times.
So basically, i think our values have changed and the media has played a big part. While sensible people can remain unaffected (to some degree) it's the unstable ones who can flip out of control like the kids you mentioned.
A few factors to consider ....
1-Freedom comes with a price tag...if we want a singer singing genuine tunes, the same process will also produce a killer doing his thing...
2-World is becoming a progressively difficult place, fewer resourses , more ppl, requiring highly specialized society and resulting stress on individuals,,,ppl are bound to pay for this change..
3- Why is it so distressing anyway...human beings are used to killing, for reasons that are pure rationalizations to others..We are different than what we would want to believe .....
Bevakoofi di koi hadd nahiN hundii.
Jesi koko ustraN de bachE!
Bevakoof parents who store guns irresponsibly and of course the bevakoof offspring who uses it. Not to mention the fact that the violence in both the new media and the films influence the upbringing and hence the thinking of the teenagers.
Some facts about the killers
1) They played DOOM day and night. Its a p.c game in which the motive is too shoot any moving object. Media is blaming violent video games for this horrible incident.
2) One of the guys used '420' as his nick on internet...stating his mentality..I guess nicks do tell alot about one's personality on internet.
3) Alot of literature related to a racisit group during Hitler's time was found in one of the guy's room.
Obviously these two were not born killers...so who is to blame for their actions. I don't know if all of it is parent's fault or is the exposure to violent media.
My question is... are humans vulnerable as far as brain washing is concerned regardless of the age? Where is Miss Psychology Felicity :)
ciao,
BoSS
It is indeed a very sad incident. What is even more sadening is the fact that it was perpetrated by individuals who didn't know firsthand what they were doing. They "thought" they had the world figured out....
There really isn't a single reason which outweighs the other for this tragedy. Its a culmination of all that you folks have mentioned above.
Hate to be a preacher here, but I just want to remind folks here that muslim children in Kosovo have been going through this sort of carnage for the past 12 months.
it is Sad, what else I can say
Just a bit more...
Among those 25 ppl one African American was killed too. Shot, just because of his colour.
Seems like this Gothic theme has gone crazy with some kids. Those two kids wud always dress up in black from head to toe. Wearing Black coats in slush, and rain, winter and summer.
Till then,
Adios!
Daysee Behna
[This message has been edited by Daysee Behna (edited April 22, 1999).]
I think that there is a definite decay of the society. the kind of peer presures out there and the lack of family support are the main factors to blame than anything else. i doubt that if guns were not readily available it would solve the problem . the core issue is the stress on the kids who are not able to handle it and it come out in such acts ofviolence. there are definite waring signs in such teenagers and that is the time to help them solve their inner conflicts . Just trying to take away weapon will not in the long run solve the problem .
actually it'z 15 ppl in total that are dead....12 students..1 teacher and the 2 killerz.
itz really sick to think that ppl have to resort to violence just to make themselves feel powerful.
the parents of the 2 boys are really ignorant..they didn't even know that their sons were building pipe bombs in their house.....
"The ego is the ugly little troll that lives underneath the bridge between your mind and your heart."
Thanks guys for correcting the stats on the issue….
Can we really blame parents? It is easy to do isn’t it…we’ve got "someone" who’s fault it is that such a horrendous event occurred. However…we as a society need to accept that we too have contributed to the events that occurred.
Nova
it is distressing because we wish to be different and strive towards a higher order. Humans are the only species that kill for fun….why wouldn’t we wish to not associate ourselves with that perception?
Boss
My question is... are humans vulnerable as far as brain washing is concerned
regardless of the age?
Yes
ghalib
excellent point.
Humans are definitely very vulnerable to brain washing.
America is showing on TV how they buthered thousands of Iraqis and now Yugoslavs without losing a single of their soldiers. They are trying to convert death into a video game where you click buttons and thousands are killed.
The attitude is feeding in people.
Well ZZ,
You probably wish it wasn't the case but i agree with u. U have got a smart brain when it comes to political analysis. However, i am not convinced wars can be won from the air but we shall see.
oaky i did not get to read all the messages
someone might have already written this
okay her goes
I am taking a psychology class at school and i do not think it is entirely the two boys fault
the school treated them as outkast no one cared for them the parents did not pay any attention to them, they needed attention, no one gave it to them. So they got together and formed their own group which happens to be associated with the neo nazzis i mean they cried out for attentyion with the trench coats and everything no one listened. this was bound to happen.
at this age al th teens are looking for an identity. The students mocked and did not let them find their identity inm a good manner so they were bound to go the other way
in a hurry gotta go
adios
today to school I wore a trench coat... yes seriously... and well I got in shit. I knew it... well they forced me to take the trench coat off because they said "it's no joke, who do you think you are!?". So don't ever wear a black trench coat to school anymore... I guess that's a warning to you guys too..
Actually this thing hits a little too close to home for me. I tried my best to put this
incident out of my mind because frankly its very painful. Two days ago when I first heard about it, I changed the channel because I couldnt deal with it. I have a kid sister who attends high school and this morning when I was dropping her off, it reminded me of the fact that we are not sure of what the future holds for any of us. What happened in Littleton CO is for sure a decaying of society and the fact that most of us, dont think about these things. We tune ourselves out, or come up with excuses to validate the fact that those kids were crazy, we can't have those kids in our community and that could never happen to us. Well I actually know someone who lives in Littleton. Its a very affluent upper class superb where people live in their white picket fence houses and things
like these dont happen. The kids involved in these crimes, were a product of years of
de-sensitization. I have heard that they were from families where the parents were too
busy making money and keeping up fronts. Therefore these kids probably turned to
violence. We cannot blame the whole thing on movies for sure. Movies do play a role,
because if we see a thing over and over again, we kinda become accustomed to it. But the fact that these kids wore black trench coats were into Gothic and idolized Hitler indicates that maybe they wanted negative attention from society. Obviously they were made fun of at school and did not integrate into the regular school environment. They also developed hatred towards specific groups. I think their act was a final revenge against society an
inward anger that finally turned violent.So what is our moral obligation??
Nova,
I am disappointed that you think that killing of any form is worth it. Nothing justifies us overlooking painful death.
We think that we cannot make a difference but yes we can. I wonder, why the teachers and counselors did not catch up on the bizarre behavior of these individuals. They had to have had some kind of personality patterns, and I heard that they had to have contemplated this for a long time. So if you think there is too much violence
on TV for your kids to watch, Turn off the TV, Read books to them, you think rated R
movies are too violent let them go to them only occasionally. Personally movies like Pulp Fiction and Natural Born killers should be banned because they Glorify violence and their entertainment value fades in comparison to the voilence they promote. I think parents can and do make a difference in the lives of these kids.
Also society has to do better then the present Gun Legalization. Obviously any John Doe nowadays can walk off the street and buy guns?
Maybe I look at the world through rose colored glasses, but it's my perception and I am an Optimist.
First of all my condolences and love goes to the family of the victims.
All I can say regarding this topic is, "There is no excuse, or reason to kill anyone else no matter WHAT". I can agree that there is too much violence in the media generally. It is up to the parents to educate their children telling them what is right and wrong.
I live in England and would say that the situation regarding guns is not too bad(the handling of guns is banned unless u have a licence.
In countries such as America even pakistan the access and legislation on handling guns is extremely poor. Which means having a gun is not seen as bad.
(A question for Nova. Would u be talking like this if it was your brother or sister that has got killed) I personally dont like Americans, but still dont see that as an excuse to kill somebody.
Read the following and ask yourself
I must confess
Only adds on to the stress
Two gunshots to my homies head
Died in his rest
Shot him to death
and Left him bleeding for his family to see
Gently asking
is it worth it?
(i know i've used these lyrics before but I thought it was appropriate to the conversation)
Felicity,
Sorry for disappointing you...( I can change the objective understanding if you want me to)
KG,
I never said we shouldnt do that...but in the process, we deny many factors crucial for the understanding of such phenomenon, one being that we are pure animals, with intellect , used to serve some very basic instincts....
macavelli,
If my own kid was involved ..hmm , I guesss not , because I am an ordinary mortal like you , whos objectivity is colored by overwhelming emotions..thats why , my opinion , without direct involvement in it , is more valid..
i just came back from school and i was wearing my leather jacket, the $&K&G teacher kicked my outta his class room cuz he asked me to take it off and i would not!! He called the security ppl on me and da &%$K@#G man said that i was a threat to da damn class cuz i was scaring kidz by wearing a black trench coat right after what happened and i could have a gun or bomb in there!!!!!!!!!!
Oh ^&*( ca u believe dat!!!!
thi @#$% is so F%$K#D up i can't believe these !@#$%^&!!!!!!!!!
they ready to kick me outta school
[This message has been edited by kashmirigirl (edited April 24, 1999).]
Frankly Speaking I would like to blame this on Christianity.
Its a messed up relegion it offers no solution or direction to the youth. It Not only lacks definate morality but also confuses the mind.
THe acts of Violence were a product of an Atheistic culture that breeds on the Rejection of Christian Hypocrassy.
Stud