Peace
This video is a good example of why consumerism is bad and also why people become suicidal even when they have all things to make them ‘happy’.
Att. IntelliPhant please get you friend to watch this … note: 24-28 minutes is directly applicable.
Att. X2 please watch the first 15 minutes to see a different definition for consumerism.
Re: Coca Cola ... Consumerism ... Suicide
Towards the end ... Sh. Abdur Raheem Green goes on to make another deep point.
That the Western Civilisation has Westernised some Muslims and made us like them ... i.e. Consumers - In this context consumer is not just the person who buys .... but the person who is ATTACHED to the dunya .... i.e. one who is not satisfied without possessions.
Re: Coca Cola … Consumerism … Suicide
reductive at best, high-horse preaching at worst. the world is not a dichotomy of Islam and consumerism, and in much of the western world consumerism is actively addressed and attempted to be checked much more purposefully than in the Muslim world. if you dont like consumerism in the western world become a marxist or anti-consumerist. Muslims have been immersed in consumerism for centuries pretty close to the start of Islam, before the west arrived to corrupt us. Ask the Mughals or the Ottomans or Abbasies. The vulgar excess of the saudies and the kuwaities is not inspired by western peers, but just continuing a legacy.
The only thing modernity brought is access to resources that only the elite used to have to a broader segment of people. Im not sure why thats a bad thing in itself.
Re: Coca Cola ... Consumerism ... Suicide
and he might have been joking but he talks in the end about how many kids you plan to have, if its only 2 or 3 you're a 'coca cola' Muslim. how many children did the Prophet have?
and he might have been joking but he talks in the end about how many kids you plan to have, if its only 2 or 3 you're a 'coca cola' Muslim. how many children did the Prophet have?
Peace ravage bhai
I think that is what you fail to realise ... offspring is ordained by Allah and the responsibility for all rizq He has taken ... Qadr.
Re: Coca Cola ... Consumerism ... Suicide
how does that relate to what i said?
Re: Coca Cola ... Consumerism ... Suicide
I think that is what you fail to realise ... offspring is ordained by Allah and the responsibility for all rizq He has taken ... Qadr.
But Allah has asked us to use our aqals (brain), Allah would never want us to produce a cricket team of offsprings that we don't have the resources to feed and eventually see those kids die out of hunger, become beggers, see them steeling, and the list goes on...
If you listen carefully he includes himself in amongst the Coca-cola Muslims so no high horse here. Also the Muslim position against consumerism is not about the wealth or profit, but rather the attachment to it and treatment of it as a taghut. A means to happiness, when it is only a temporary solution, with side effects. So we can be capitalistic so long as we are using what we need and being philanthropic with the rest. If we use more than our needs that is of no harm as long as we do not become attached. The Muslim consumerism in the times mentioned above Mughals, Ottomans and Abbasids were a mixture of some Western influence and was mostly in the elite, with modern technology you see a wider problem. The poorest of homes in Pak have TVs for example.
how does that relate to what i said?
What you said demonstrated that you missed the point. The fact that Muhammad (SAW) had some children some of which died, shows that it was not in his (SAW) control to determine the number of children he (SAW) would raise. The Qur'an mentions that we should not fear poverty on account of children.
Re: Coca Cola … Consumerism … Suicide
and it isnt just about rizq. the ideal he speaks of is pretty common in some arab countries where sheikhs have dozensof kids with multiple wives. while they can financially support that number, they cant recognize their own kids when they see them. Has Allah also promised good parenting and attention along with the Rizq psyah?
But Allah has asked us to use our aqals (brain), Allah would never want us to produce a cricket team of offsprings that we don't have the resources to feed and eventually see those kids die out of hunger, become beggers, see them steeling, and the list goes on...
Peace Lusi
If you can demonstrate how you know what Allah (SWT) wants from us without the use of scripture then I will be impressed. If we wanted to produce a cricket team do you think that it will be possible without the Will of Allah?
If you listen carefully he includes himself in amongst the Coca-cola Muslims so no high horse here.
I listened carefully sir. And whereas he occasionally is self deprecating a lot of the time its pretty haughty condemnation. at one point the guy says 'even i am sometimes prone to this... i am serious' as if it is such an unbelievable thing that even he would be a common sinner like the rest of us.
the whole lecture has an undercurrent of putting people down.
[quote]
Also the Muslim position against consumerism is not about the wealth or profit, but rather the attachment to it and treatment of it as a taghut. A means to happiness, when it is only a temporary solution, with side effects. So we can be capitalistic so long as we are using what we need and being philanthropic with the rest. If we use more than our needs that is of no harm as long as we do not become attached. The Muslim consumerism in the times mentioned above Mughals, Ottomans and Abbasids were a mixture of some Western influence and was mostly in the elite, with modern technology you see a wider problem. The poorest of homes in Pak have TVs for example.
[/QUOTE]
even in the time of abbasids and ottomans, when the most propsperous part of the world wasnt the west but the muslim world, the 'consumerism' came from the west? come on. there is an extent to which you can blame the west for your ills. excessive indulgence in the material is as old as firaun, and older than that. it is a fundamental human impulse.
the guy has his worldview and tries to fashion the world to it.
Peace ravage
If they are bad parents then they are bad parents. The number of children was determined by Allah (SWT) not by them. Besides you are using examples of people who have breached the 4 wife limit.
I know a family from Nigeria, the father of whom is the second richest man in the country at that time. He had four wives and 30 children. By Allah (SWT) I could not see such beautiful characters in any people than I did in his children.
Peace Lusi
If you can demonstrate how you know what Allah (SWT) wants from us without the use of scripture then I will be impressed. If we wanted to produce a cricket team do you think that it will be possible without the Will of Allah?
conversely if someone wanted to produce 2-4 kids, would that be possible without the will of Allah?
Re: Coca Cola ... Consumerism ... Suicide
So why so many kids in 3rd world countries are dying out of hunger, where is their rizak?
Allah said read the scripture and use your brain.
I listened carefully sir. And whereas he occasionally is self deprecating a lot of the time its pretty haughty condemnation. at one point the guy says 'even i am sometimes prone to this... i am serious' as if it is such an unbelievable thing that even he would be a common sinner like the rest of us.
the whole lecture has an undercurrent of putting people down.
even in the time of abbasids and ottomans, when the most propsperous part of the world wasnt the west but the muslim world, the 'consumerism' came from the west? come on. there is an extent to which you can blame the west for your ills. excessive indulgence in the material is as old as firaun, and older than that. it is a fundamental human impulse.
the guy has his worldview and tries to fashion the world to it.
Peace bhai ravage
Please hear what he says not how he says it. The Knower of hearts is Allah (SWT) alone.
Okay if you excuse him for his associating materialism to the West ... just for once think regardless of where materialism has started it is wrong isn't it?
Peace ravage
If they are bad parents then they are bad parents. The number of children was determined by Allah (SWT) not by them. Besides you are using examples of people who have breached the 4 wife limit.
I know a family from Nigeria, the father of whom is the second richest man in the country at that time. He had four wives and 30 children. By Allah (SWT) I could not see such beautiful characters in any people than I did in his children.
good for your nigerian friend. the point then should be to stress good parenting, and part of good parenting is knowing the number of children you can devote adequate attention and financial resources to.
it would be extremely bad parenting for example for an unemployed father of nine to sire another child on the basis that Allah will give the rizq IMO.
Peace bhai ravage
Please hear what he says not how he says it. The Knower of hearts is Allah (SWT) alone.
i heard what he said, and the particular culture/religion dynamic he tried to present on historical grounds while noting the disrespectful and holier than thou impression i received. please dont assume that any unfavourable reaction is only because the person is either inattentive or stupid.
good for your nigerian friend. the point then should be to stress good parenting, and part of good parenting is knowing the number of children you can devote adequate attention to.
Rather knowing that your preferred number of wives is 1 and no more than 4. Then whatever amount of children you have in them to seek support from Allah (SWT) to give them good tarbiyah.
Please remember older children teach younger ones and this is how I saw the family operating. They would elect from amonst themselves (the siblings) a leader whenever they used to go out. They used to travel in groups of no more than six but no less than two or three.
Good parenting involves the establishment of leadership delegation from amongst the more responsible offsrping to those who are younger.
conversely if someone wanted to produce 2-4 kids, would that be possible without the will of Allah?
No ... there are some in GS who have no children of their own. The prophets of Allah (SWT) Zakariyah (AS) and Abraham (AS) had children in very late life despite their proximity to Allah (SWT) it was not in their control. Yaqoob (AS) on the other hand had 10 sons.