i heard what he said, and the particular culture/religion dynamic he tried to present on historical grounds while noting the disrespectful and holier than thou impression i received. please dont assume that any unfavourable reaction is only because the person is either inattentive or stupid.
The Knower of hearts is Allah (SWT) alone.
Rather knowing that your preferred number of wives is 1 and no more than 4.
no more than 4 at a time correct? The venerable sheikh I mentioned was not in violation of this ruling. When you're parallel processing though, you can get a lot done.
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Then whatever amount of children you have in them to seek support from Allah (SWT) to give them good tarbiyah.
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sure. this clip criticises the mere planning of fewer children on the basis of financial resources on the basis that rizq comes from Allah. ALL rizq comes from Allah. Is ALL financial planning bad? Do you take your wallet when you leave home for work, or do you feel that your rizq will come to you?
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Please remember older children teach younger ones and this is how I saw the family operating. They would elect from amonst themselves (the siblings) a leader whenever they used to go out. They used to travel in groups of no more than six but no less than two or three.
Good parenting involves the establishment of leadership delegation from amongst the more responsible offsrping to those who are younger.
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Thats your view of good parenting. In my view, every child should recieve the same amount of care and attention from the primary adults in his life, not be raised by other kids. But I dont wish to be disrespectful to your friends so I wont further than expressing disagreement.
No ... there are some in GS who have no children of their own. The prophets of Allah (SWT) Zakariyah (AS) and Abraham (AS) had children in very late life despite their proximity to Allah (SWT) it was not in their control. Yaqoob (AS) on the other hand had 10 sons.
that has nothing to do with the topic. It is not what we control, but what we plan. In each case there is a vague number envisioned, 2-4 or a football field. The sheikh in this clip prefers the football field. small vs big. you say if there is a football field family would that happen without the will of Allah, that applies to a small family too.
The Knower of hearts is Allah (SWT) alone.
and yet we are the observer of words.
Leaving that aside you asked me whether I agree about the general gist of not embracing materialism. I agree with the very basic point that Muslims shouldnt be immersed in material goods and be stoics about it all. And I see some of his points about how with pop culture, experiences are ephemeral and therefore people become addicted to getting more and more empty coca-cola equivalent experiences. But if this speech had been just about this point it would have been 15 mins long. The rest is filled with rather bad historical analysis and sneering at western culture/people who incorporate elements of western culture.
So why so many kids in 3rd world countries are dying out of hunger, where is their rizak? Allah said read the scripture and use your brain.
Peace Lusi
The 3rd World are dying mostly from natural disasters but also from ineffectual aid. The leaders of countries are indebted to the West and many countries give up their blood resources to the West because of debts based on interest.
The natural diasters have their own reasons. But one important thought ... many people in developing countries have only 1 - 3 children who are also dying out of hunger. Why? It is not to do with their means. Likewise I know people who have not had any official income for 5 or 6 years and with 4 children they are living a good life. Okay the father will be taken to account for being lazy, but the food is being fed by Allah (SWT) nonetheless.
The Noble Qur'an Al-Israa 17:31
And kill not your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Surely, the killing of them is a great sin.
The Noble Qur'an Al-An'aam 6:151
Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited you from: Join not anything in worship with Him; be good and dutiful to your parents; kill not your children because of poverty - We provide sustenance for you and for them; come not near to Al-Fawâhish (shameful sins, illegal sexual intercourse, etc.) whether committed openly or secretly, and kill not anyone whom Allâh has forbidden, except for a just cause (according to Islâmic law). This He has commanded you that you may understand.
Re: Coca Cola ... Consumerism ... Suicide
^ in each case the injunction is not to kill! Killing children for any reason is an abhorrent and abominable act. That does not equate to an encouragement to go and produce as many kids as you possibly can with no regard to whether or not you can meet your responsibilities as a parent.
Thats your view of good parenting. In my view, every child should recieve the same amount of care and attention from the primary adults in his life, not be raised by other kids. But I dont wish to be disrespectful to your friends so I wont further than expressing disagreement.
No kids are raising kids. Up until 6 or 7 the kids remain with their mothers. Later after the late teens they will help with their younger siblings. Though there is one man to many children, the mothers are the real influences.
Re: Coca Cola ... Consumerism ... Suicide
Yea the dad can wash his hands off it all, which goes back to the example of the sheikh that I gave. Fine if thats okay in your books, lets not get into it. I dont believe we will agree about it.
^ in each case the injunction is not to kill! Killing children for any reason is an abhorrent and abominable act. That does not equate to an encouragement to go and produce as many kids as you possibly can with no regard to whether or not you can meet your responsibilities as a parent.
Agreed, in the same vein it is not a concern to Muslims should they get more children or less despite their planning for less or more. What we are given we take the responsibility and trust in Allah (SWT). The speaker is not promoting the planning of a cricket team. Well his question was phrased incorrectly it only gave two options. What I believe is the intent is to ask ourselves whether we are concerned with having more than three or four kids. I am not, except for my wife's health. Such things should not move us in to fear of family planning. The killing can also be done in the wombs or soon after birth, which is a form of family planning too.
Peace Lusi
The 3rd World are dying mostly from natural disasters but also from ineffectual aid. The leaders of countries are indebted to the West and many countries give up their blood resources to the West because of debts based on interest.
The natural diasters have their own reasons. But one important thought ... many people in developing countries have only 1 - 3 children who are also dying out of hunger. Why? It is not to do with their means. Likewise I know people who have not had any official income for 5 or 6 years and with 4 children they are living a good life. Okay the father will be taken to account for being lazy, but the food is being fed by Allah (SWT) nonetheless.
Are you saying 1 out of 3 or what ratio are you trying to present here?
Not really, just go and see the slums how parents are struggling to feed an army of children, children go hungry days in a row before they get any food which is mostly some form of old dry bread, children trying to feed themselves from garbage piles... is that the food ALlah had promised... no, I don't think so!
Agreed, in the same vein it is not a concern to Muslims should they get more children or less despite their planning for less or more. What we are given we take the responsibility and trust in Allah (SWT). The speaker is not promoting the planning of a cricket team. Well his question was phrased incorrectly it only gave two options. What I believe is the intent is to ask ourselves whether we are concerned with having more than three or four kids. I am not, except for my wife's health. Such things should not move us in to fear of family planning. The killing can also be done in the wombs or soon after birth, which is a form of family planning too.
Now whos guessing whats in the hearts :). In no way does that seem to be the intent. He repeats it twice. First he says do you want to have 3-4, second time he says do you want to have 2-3 so you can devote love and care to each. That is very different from how you are phrasing it. You can trust Allah will provide for any unplanned children, and you shouldnt kill an unplanned child, but that doesnt mean you dont plan small families in principle. The speaker is suggesting that small families and the idea that you want to devote attention/love to a small family is a western lovey dovey coca cola idea.
Secondly not all family planning involves killing children. Any that does, and only that, would be covered under the verses you posted.
that has nothing to do with the topic. It is not what we control, but what we plan. In each case there is a vague number envisioned, 2-4 or a football field. The sheikh in this clip prefers the football field. small vs big. you say if there is a football field family would that happen without the will of Allah, that applies to a small family too.
I agree with you more on this now I think a bit more. It seems that wishing for one or two due to materialistic worries and wishing for 20 kids could also be for materialistic desires (as children are also dunya) both are not correct.
We should plan at least for knowing our own capabilties with regards to tarbiya and energy for the number of children. So after refinement I think planning with a view to material constraints/desires is wrong.
I agree with you more on this now I think a bit more. It seems that wishing for one or two due to materialistic worries and wishing for 20 kids could also be for materialistic desires (as children are also dunya) both are not correct.
i was just going to say this, very often where material desires in the form of wealth is mentioned so is the desire for many children (particularly sons).
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We should plan at least for knowing our own capabilties with regards to tarbiya and energy for the number of children.
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agreed.
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So after refinement I think planning with a view to material constraints/desires is wrong.
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okay, I guess I mildly disagree there too, I think cases can be cited (such as those by lusi and people I personally know) where some regard to material circumstances would have been good. in one case of people I know, the education of the children is suffering because the kids had to be moved from a good school to a poor one, because the father couldnt keep up with the bills after his seventh kid.
But Allah has asked us to use our aqals (brain), Allah would never want us to produce a cricket team of offsprings that we don't have the resources to feed and eventually see those kids die out of hunger, become beggers, see them steeling, and the list goes on...
So why so many kids in 3rd world countries are dying out of hunger, where is their rizak? Allah said read the scripture and use your brain.
Are you saying 1 out of 3 or what ratio are you trying to present here?
Not really, just go and see the slums how parents are struggling to feed an army of children, children go hungry days in a row before they get any food which is mostly some form of old dry bread, children trying to feed themselves from garbage piles... is that the food ALlah had promised... no, I don't think so!
None of us should have any children or even think about having one because none of us is sure about having any food in next 3 days.
None of us should have any children or even think about having one because none of us is sure about having any food in next 3 days.
thats silly. nobodys sure of anything, but we all plan our day and have goals to achieve. just because there is variable success in achieving those goals doesnt mean the whole concept of planning for anything is flawed. furthermore, it doesnt follow from variable success rates that ALL plans are equally good. Infact some actions, despite the intervention of fate remain stupid, and some actions, despite the intervention of fate, remain sound.
having a football team sized team, avoiding any sort of planning, when you cant afford to feed them adequately and meet your responsibilities, lies firmly in the stupid category.