Re: CJ mighty successful in making Pak-Mullahs viable again
^How should the 17 member bench have decided the NRO case? What shud they have done differently?
Now though the CJ is back and he should concentrate on the legal process..not involve himself in politics or be a pawn for low lifes like the Jang group.
what makes you think saying that, do you think all the judges who were locked up with their families would go for it if we assume politics is agenda...
do you really think Musharraf wouldnt have offered them heavens to CJ or other judges to break away from him...
i would like to tell if CJ wanted to do politics then NRO case wouldhave been enough to send home whole PPP govt...
to give you an example there was a judge sitting in the bench who used to be with CJ didnt take oath under mush and then took oath after election and was senior most judge after doger he plainly refused to be next CJ after dogar retirement when there was talk of it long before long march..
all those judges went through hell including their families during musharrafs time and it was not just for the JOB...
you can say judiciary is over active but what else should they do when all around them executive is doing one think Plunder.
still whatever they are doing they are doing based on constitution...
right thing for them is giving judgment based on Law even if heavens fall, so i dont give a sh?? jamatis are getting benefit, no body is stopping other parties to catch on but they themselves are stopping themselves...
^How should the 17 member bench have decided the NRO case? What shud they have done differently?
I have no problem with the NRO being abolished. People keep saying Zardari is gone because NRO is gone, but there was no NRO when Zardari was sarofying in jails across the country for numerous years with a hostile judiciary, hostile PM in power - Nawaz Sharif - and they still couldnt convict him.
I remember the scumbag of the 90s'- Saifur Rehman creating false cases against numerous PPP and ANP leaders, getting false statements, manipulating Judges...such as Malik Qayyum etc, and trying to convict all these opposition leaders....to no avail.
Saifur Rehman was also the main culprit in the BMW and Steel Mills cases, which is why both he and his brother are hiding in the UAE. There were also cases created against Nawaz Sharif, his brother and also numerous PML-N leaders..all of which mysteriously disappeared when Saifur Rehman and Nawaz Sharif were in power.
I believe all those cases, including the ones against the Jang group owners, ironically created by Nawaz Sharif himself, should also be resumed.
Then lets see who's calling for accountability and whos running out of the country !
The President has immunity - the CJ cannot send him home. Only the people can, through their elected representatives. Or the army...however the army seems to have had enough of running the country and ruining their own reputation.
And while the CJ did a noble thing by going against Musharaff, the same CJ also violated his constituional oath by taking oath from a dictator and his PCO. Let's not forget that.
Re: CJ mighty successful in making Pak-Mullahs viable again
^Then whats the problem with CJ and company?
I don't understand the criticism of PPP supporters, when government and PPP are not upholding NRO why criticise judiciar for revoking it.
As for cases against Sharifs and Jang group, yes, they should be brought up and revied, let everyone face the music.
^Then whats the problem with CJ and company?
I don't understand the criticism of PPP supporters, when government and PPP are not upholding NRO why criticise judiciar for revoking it.
As for cases against Sharifs and Jang group, yes, they should be brought up and revied, let everyone face the music.
PPP supporters do not want to see the CJ become a pawn in the game that some people are playing to dislodge the government.
There is no doubt that the Jang group of liars and certain political actors who have never amounted to anything politically such as Imran Khan, Qazi Hussain and the Mullahs etc are trying to use the CJ to weaken and dislodge the government.
These people can never win an election if their lives depended on it but are always ready to dislodge elected representatives..
As long as the CJ maintains his constitutional role and not go beyond - no one will complain. For the record, I think he needs to pay more attention to issues like the Missing persons case, Steel Mills fraud by Shaukat Aziz etc...and yes reopen the cases against Saifur Rehman and the Sharifs and the Jang group...accountability should not be centred against just the PPP....bring everyone to the party.
... For the record, I think he needs to pay more attention to issues like the Missing persons case, Steel Mills fraud by Shaukat Aziz etc...and yes reopen the cases against Saifur Rehman and the Sharifs and the Jang group...accountability should not be centred against just the PPP....bring everyone to the party.
Every action has some desired results and some "side-effects".
The idea is to avoid any action in the hope of "desired results" that has deadly side-effects. Why? because you do not want to kill the patient aka "Pakistani economy" of $100s of billions in search of a corruption amount worth less than a billion dollars.
At some point we must learn to write off few millions in order to save 100s of billions.
Every time there is instability in Pak, we lose HUGE amount of money that is 1000s of time the so called "corruption money".
It doesn't matter if we have dhoomo-Krazy like Indians, or the dictatorship like China,
What matters is that "We must have stability" for at least 50 years.
It is so unfortunate to see that we give 2 years to elected government and 4 years to military dictators.
And then,
our educated elite starts "uchal kood" in our precious boat called Pakistan. The dinky overloaded boat that seldom gets out of international choppy waters.
CJ may be very noble, but his actions are definitely encouraging the uchal kood.
We the educated elite and our leaders all must learn that an elected government should be given 4-5 years and then that elected government must learn to leave after that time.
CJ is no god-almighty. He is just a judge, a high one, but still a one man show. The only thing he can do is to use the law and make Pakistani political system more stable.
CJ should not forget that he was brought back in the supreme court to avoid the uchal kood and mar-kutai in Pakistani streets.
Now that he is sitting in his comfy high chair, he too should work very hard to avoid gali-galoch and Hangama bazi.
Because the dimwits like Mullahs and Imran khans are ready to topple the Pakistani boat at any given moment.
^Then whats the problem with CJ and company? ** I don't understand the criticism of PPP supporter**s, when government and PPP are not upholding NRO why criticise judiciar for revoking it.
As for cases against Sharifs and Jang group, yes, they should be brought up and revied, let everyone face the music.
It is not only PPP Supporters, there are others as well, the one who are lot more organized and have comparatively high IQ, these people are from Loan-Defaulter Mafia, they knew it is their turn now, it is they who are on the hit list of SC, so they are going to do what it takes to defame judiciary and all this is evident from the STRANGE logic presented here and in different forum in Pakistan, the objective is to let CJ and SC know that any action taken against loan-defaulter will only sabotage the country
Every action has some desired results and some "side-effects".
The idea is to avoid any action in the hope of "desired results" that has deadly side-effects. Why? because you do not want to kill the patient aka "Pakistani economy" of $100s of billions in search of a corruption amount worth less than a billion dollars.
At some point we must learn to write off few millions in order to save 100s of billions.
Every time there is instability in Pak, we lose HUGE amount of money that is 1000s of time the so called "corruption money".
It doesn't matter if we have dhoomo-Krazy like Indians, or the dictatorship like China,
What matters is that "We must have stability" for at least 50 years.
It is so unfortunate to see that we give 2 years to elected government and 4 years to military dictators.
And then,
our educated elite starts "uchal kood" in our precious boat called Pakistan. The dinky overloaded boat that seldom gets out of international choppy waters.
CJ may be very noble, but his actions are definitely encouraging the uchal kood.
We the educated elite and our leaders all must learn that an elected government should be given 4-5 years and then that elected government must learn to leave after that time.
CJ is no god-almighty. He is just a judge, a high one, but still a one man show. The only thing he can do is to use the law and make Pakistani political system more stable.
CJ should not forget that he was brought back in the supreme court to avoid the uchal kood and mar-kutai in Pakistani streets.
Now that he is sitting in his comfy high chair, he too should work very hard to avoid gali-galoch and Hangama bazi.
Because the dimwits like Mullahs and Imran khans are ready to topple the Pakistani boat at any given moment.
This is the lamest ever logic i have seen in my whole life,
What to do with the foreign investors who do not wish and want to even look at Pakistan because of the corruption level? how many billions Pakistan have lost in that case, have you ever thought about it..
What about the fact that it is corruption which have led to political un-stability of the country...
Mullah and others like talibans get public sympathy only because the common man knows that their leadership is corrupt and will never do anything to make their life better...
Last but not least, this is the first time, Judiciary has targeted the 5% of Pakistani population, the corrupt elite class, which unfortunately also control the govts of Pakistan, judiciary is taking action against their crimes, i know this is something against your interest, but in the history of Pakistan this is first time when somebody is looking after the 95% of Pakistani population...
PPP supporters do not want to see the CJ become a pawn in the game that some people are playing to dislodge the government.
There is no doubt that the Jang group of liars and certain political actors who have never amounted to anything politically such as Imran Khan, Qazi Hussain and the Mullahs etc are trying to use the CJ to weaken and dislodge the government.
These people can never win an election if their lives depended on it but are always ready to dislodge elected representatives..
As long as the CJ maintains his constitutional role and not go beyond - no one will complain. For the record, I think he needs to pay more attention to issues like the Missing persons case, Steel Mills fraud by Shaukat Aziz etc...and yes reopen the cases against Saifur Rehman and the Sharifs and the Jang group...accountability should not be centred against just the PPP....bring everyone to the party.
CJ go for missing persons, and president shall take some bribe aka commission from here and there and stop CJ from working, is this what you are suggesting, no wonder PPP is in mess as it have advisers like you..
I remember the scumbag of the 90s'- Saifur Rehman creating false cases against numerous PPP and ANP leaders, getting false statements, manipulating Judges...such as Malik Qayyum etc, and trying to convict all these opposition leaders....to no avail. .
you saying all those cases were false, although i condemn in the manner they were dealt.
if youhave known what they were and what they are you wouldnt have said that and i m not talking about just zardari.
PPP supporters do not want to see the CJ become a pawn in the game that some people are playing to dislodge the government.
i dont know why suddenly he seems to you as a pawn for just giving a judgement and i am really amazed at your thought process, but sort of understand...
when so called angelic leaders like late benazir /sharifs can be pawns why cant CJ but hey there had been numerous not much known pakistani ordinary judges/politicians who refused to be pawns and living ordinary life and CJ is one of them so bringing them in the same basket like angelic figures who had parental right to rule us is a bad judgement.
also CJ cant bring down the govt but govt itself he simply had to give ruling based on law so better PPP govt correct their ways.
difference between kingship and democracy is in kingship they rule and in democracy the run the government and when you run something you cant run it with impunity i hope someone could have told that to late benazir and sharifs and now to our great president zardari....
CJ go for missing persons, and president shall take some bribe aka commission from here and there and stop CJ from working, is this what you are suggesting, no wonder PPP is in mess as it have advisers like you..
Your logic is ridiculous. What you`re suggesting is the CJ shouldnt do his job because you think the President will 'take bride'. Your bias is clearly visible.
Some people always look for things to pick on..No one knows what the President will do. Obviously people like you have an axe to grind with the PPP so you'll look for anything to jump on. So far the President has done everything the CJ recommended, including hiring the Judges the CJ advised him too.
you saying all those cases were false, although i condemn in the manner they were dealt.
if youhave known what they were and what they are you wouldnt have said that and i m not talking about just zardari.
If any of those cases was based on solid and legit evidence, then Zardari would have been convicted...he was in jail and fighting cases both times Sharif was in power. Sharif and Saifur Rehman did everything they could, including harassing innocent people and their families in order to get evidence against Zardari - they also manipulated Judges, as was evident with the recording made between Saifur Rehman and Malik Qayyum, and STILL they could not convict him.
Problem with Pakistanis, especially the so-called 'intellectuals' is that they like to think of themselves as Judge, trial and jury. Someone files a case against someone, and they automatically think the person is guilty. Id like to see them use the same logic when someone files a case against them as well.
And for the record, I do know about most of those cases..I also know of the cases filed against Nawaz Sharif looting the Zakat fund, Sairfur Rehman and the BMW and Steel mills cases, along with the cases filed by PMM-N against the Rahman low lifes - the owners of the Jang group.
All those cases 'mysteriously' disappeared or are not being pursued. Bring those cases to the fore, let's see who is guilty and who isent...let's also see who continues to cry for accountability once cases against them are revived by the courts and the honorable CJ.
......... What about the fact that it is corruption which have led to political un-stability of the country... ......
This is where we differ my friend! you may be confused because corruption and instability are intertwined and if they are around for a while, it is hard to pick which one is egg and which one is the chicken.
Just think a bit and you will realize that it is the instability that leads to corruption. And not the other way around.
Corruption is nothing but a form of hoarding valuables like money, or land, or jewelry.
Just for a moment force yourself to thing about a scenario.
In normal circumstances when you are assured of the fact that you can go buy a sack of flour from the shop regardless of the weather, you will not store 20 sacks of flour in your home.
However if you know that a big storm is coming and roads will be blocked and shops will not be open, what would you do?
You will go to the shop and buy 20 sacks of flour and store them in your home. Even if you have to pay a little extra or pay a bit of bribe to the shop owner, you will buy 20 sacks to ensure the food supply for your family.
Many Pakistanis do not know that Commie countries like Ruskie used to suffer from hoarding at every level. People would go by 10 pairs of shoes after standing in line for 20 hours.
You know why?
Because they were not sure when the next time they will see shoes for sale in the store.
In the West, you will seldom find trains and public transport that is packed and people are riding on the roof.
Why?
Passengers know that transportation system is stable. If they miss one bus/train, there will be another one coming at a FIX time and they WILL get a seat in it.
Similarly, politicians and rulers are people like you and I. They will hoard if they know that their financial future and their political future is not secure.
They will take money and hoard it in the country. If they know their hoarding is not safe within the country, they will try to hoard overseas like in Swiss bank.
We must allow politicians to complete their term. When politicians know their future is safe and their TIME is FIXED. They will reduce and eventually eliminate their hoarding.
And the ones who are still hoarding will not get the vote from the masses.
We must end this hysteria against the "elected politicians who are sitting in the treasury benches". That means opposition politicians have to wait for their turn, and so shall the educated elite.
Your logic is ridiculous. What you`re suggesting is the CJ shouldnt do his job because you think the President will 'take bride'. Your bias is clearly visible.
my Bias, my family had been ppp supporter and voter from two generation, even this govt have two sitting minister from our extended family so please dont tell me i m biased i have seen these guys from inside and very closely and by the way on election day i ran from one polling booth to another looking for my registeration number you know to vote for PPP in hope that May be things have changed now, thank God my name wasnt in the list.
i am not assuming president taken bribes and my assumption doesnt matter in court of law..
if you think zardari is innocent why making so much fuss let the court decide what i am trying to say is courts verdict was right and balanced thats another thing people are focusing on zardari...
as for your earlier argument regarding certain group of people not wining election and yet they criticize govt dear people dont need to votes to do their jobs as you can ask a general to get votes to be journal and same goes with the media and others.
as for corruption tell me of all corruption stories published in newpapers, steel mill case, karachi land grabbing case where sindh govt sold land for 15 crore whose market value was 8 billion and irony is city govt offered to buy same for 6 billion, islamabad real estate scandal where is the denial, where is the govt investigation thanks God SC intervened and sale of land was put on hold and steel mill case pending in court..
when executive leaves the gap some one has to jump in to fill them ask the govt to do the good governance.
i) It wasnt Zardari who let the CJ back to the Supreme Court, it was the majority of Pakistanis. Zardari and his chavals tried their best to stop him.
ii) You would much rather see Zardar in power, which keeps your altaf bhai in power rather than a nation enjoying the auspices of a free judiciary. Shame on you.
I would like to see Zardari as president and to complete his term.
If we keep pulling legs like this, we will never get anywhere.
I would like to see Zardari as president and to complete his term. If we keep pulling legs like this, we will never get anywhere.
its better to get to "no-where" than to end up in hell!
its better to get to "no-where" than to end up in hell!
Why did you elect his party then?
All corruption cases are from prior to that.
Why did you elect his party then? All corruption cases are from prior to that.
aaho why did u elect him yaar
aise kiuuuuuuun kia aap ne lolz
If any of those cases was based on solid and legit evidence, then Zardari would have been convicted...he was in jail and fighting cases both times Sharif was in power. Sharif and Saifur Rehman did everything they could, including harassing innocent people and their families in order to get evidence against Zardari - they also manipulated Judges, as was evident with the recording made between Saifur Rehman and Malik Qayyum, and STILL they could not convict him.
Problem with Pakistanis, especially the so-called 'intellectuals' is that they like to think of themselves as Judge, trial and jury. Someone files a case against someone, and they automatically think the person is guilty. Id like to see them use the same logic when someone files a case against them as well.
And for the record, I do know about most of those cases..I also know of the cases filed against Nawaz Sharif looting the Zakat fund, Sairfur Rehman and the BMW and Steel mills cases, along with the cases filed by PMM-N against the Rahman low lifes - the owners of the Jang group.
All those cases 'mysteriously' disappeared or are not being pursued. Bring those cases to the fore, let's see who is guilty and who isent...let's also see who continues to cry for accountability once cases against them are revived by the courts and the honorable CJ.
Then care to explain how Zardari became so rich. He has amassed a fortune worth US $1.8 billion...he is not a media magnate or businessman, has no industries that we know of etc...and has it also occurred to you that being the crook that he is, Zardari may have bought some of the judges, hence nothing was ever proven against him back then.
I know* iss hamam mein sab log hee nangey hain* so agree with what you say in the last two paras.... i.e. investigation of corruption cases should not just be confined to NRO but we have to start somewhere. Inaction is also not an option here.