CIA warns I.S.I

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: CIA warns I.S.I

^ True.If this issue isresolved,there is no issue between both the countries.

Sorry for being nasty… but if this issue is resolved many guppies number of posts won’t be much :hoola:

102

Makes perfect sense now why Pakistan is in the messy state that it is in. These bureaucrats are the dirtiest cr@p of all. Especially knowing about some incidents about them recently makes me wonder, are they even Pakistanis?? They would have sold this country and its' people to enemies years ago to settle with some cheap booze in lieu of that.

They are the real traitors of Pakistan. Now it makes perfect sense why the traitors of Pakistan cannot be caught. It is because, actually, they are the ones controlling the government and selling our land to the enemy for personal gain.

103

Your arguments are flawed. 'Jummu and Kashmir' is disputed area since 1947. A soldier is safe in area that is physically and politically controlled by their country. Nevertheless, it does not mean that area belongs to that country. It only means that the country is occupying that area militarily. Area belongs to a country if people of that area want to live with that country.

Pakistan is demanding plebiscite in 'Jummu and Kashmir' under neutral supervision (like UN) since 1947 and is willing to accept people's verdict. If people of 'Jummu and Kashmir' would vote in majority to live with India than 'Jummu and Kashmir' can stay with India, not just Indian Occupied Kashmir but Azad kashmir too. On the other hand, if they vote to join Pakistan, they should join Pakistan, not just Azad Kashmir but 'Jummu and Kashmir' too.

If India thinks that 'Jummu and Kashmir' is part of India, they should agree for plebiscite. Until then, Pakistan would keep considering 'Jammu and Kashmir' a disputed territory, and has all right to do whatever they can to make life of Indian soldiers occupying Kashmir miserable.

104

Obviously…! Was it still not clear that CIA controls the government of America just like ISI controls the government of Pakistan? Were there still any doubts about that? And these spy agencies work for money, not for their countries. I mean atleast not ISI. I mean if ISI takes orders from bureaucrats, they definitely give orders as per the money they receive from the enemies of Pakistan. Regardless whether it is good for Pakistan and its’ citizens or not.

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Another Kashmir show here..I respect your views anyway.But there is a problem though.India will never let Kashmir go because it is an integral part of India.No matter how many people cry and whine about it.

We are not there to conduct any plebiscite.It's not only my statement but India's statement.Pls do not dream about it.Let Pakistan hold a plebiscite in POK first and then we will consider that option(we will just consider and not practise it :p )

We have got enough and enough people to join our army.So no probs,we will be there.You people(I am not generalizing) be busy in arranging terrorists and other miscreants.Anyway there are lakhs of unemployed people ,especially youths on both sides.Some of them will join army and some of them will terrorists.Either side.

Dude,this is a civilized world but busy and changing world..It has got many other important issues to address and not this age old issue.Those who dream abt getting Kashmir to pak,liberating it,Kashmir as an independene state,are all just in fantacy.

EGG DRAWING COMPETITION!
106

Re: CIA warns I.S.I

Let us not derogate from the main subject.There is another forum to discuss Kashmir dispute.

107

Unfortunately, there are lot of propagandist employed by thug politicians to misguide Pakistanis. I feel you are victim of their propaganda. :) Armed forces, Bureaucrats, people working in Intelligence, they are all people like you and me. Only difference is that, they have joined Pakistan government to work for Pakistan and get wages for their service from Pakistan. Their loyalty is with Pakistan and for well being of Pakistan.

When they see crooks and thug politicians getting elected (by hook or crook) into government to loot, plunder and destroy the country, some government servants join these crooks in looting and plundering (considering it as their golden opportunity), but many (especially in armed forces and intelligence) resist these crooks wanting to loot, plunder and destroy Pakistan. Their resistance is taken by crook politicians as hindrance in their looting and plundering the country, so they hire people to do all sort of propaganda against them in every media outlet, and many innocent Pakistanis get victim of their propaganda.

I think that if you want to see patriotic Pakistanis in government service to serve elected representatives then elect honest and hard working politicians who are sincere to the country. If that would happen, I am sure that armed forces, bureaucrats and people in intelligence, every government servants would work to help them, and country would progress fast. But until then, it is these patriotic people in government service who are defending the interest of Pakistan from crook politicians and thus fulfilling their duty towards Pakistan, for which we should be thankful to them.

EGG DRAWING COMPETITION!
108

I bow down to all those patriotic servants as after God, they are the ones who protect us.

I am not exposed to Pakistani propagandas. I hardly take these news (national or int'l) at face value. But unfortunately, recently I came to know about a real life plundering case involving an official sitting at the Pakistani embassy in....... [Edited]....... No, not through media. I just know from personal contacts. And that has left me speechless and shocked. It actually terrorized me inside out. That a PAKISTANI official sitting at the PAKISTANI embassy in a so called MUSLIM state can actually threaten a PAKISTANI citizen on a business trip in a foreign land to get into an 'unethical' deal or face worse consequences. I mean aren't these officials supposed to HELP Pakistani citizens in case they get into an unfair situation? But imagine this scenario where a Pakistani citizen is being THREATENED by an official of the Pakistani embassy to get into an unethical deal or face bad consequences...... Is there ANYONE who can lock these officials up for misusing their position provided by the PAKISTANI government? These traitors should be made to stand in a line and shot without a second thought.

I cannot provide all the details of this incident for privacy reasons of those involved but it's completely crushed my trust in these senior officials of the government. But I am also sure that NOT ALL are corrupt among them. Those are the honest ones I bow down to and those are the ones because of whom, we still have our land in our hands.

P.S: "Name of the country edited due to privacy reasons"

109

Ambassador1: You should have read me carefully. I did write that there are many black sheep amongst government servants. Many government servants in top position, especially since present corrupt government has taken over, are corrupts and thugs. You expect these government servants to get punished, but who would punish them as they are doing corruption and plundering for those who are ruling (politicians in power have share in whatever they loot and plunder). Please read what I wrote:

You can understand from recent event that 'Chairman FBR, Abdullah Yusuf' got sacked, unceremoniously ... while performing his duty in Russia', even though his performance as FBR chairman was excellent and he was working under contract that was to expire in Nov 2010. New FBR chairman got appointed in his place. Obviously, politicians who got new 'FBR chairman' appointed by sacking 'Abdullah Yusuf' don't care about performance or contract. Such politicians cannot be honest and would try to use present Chairman FBR for corruption and plundering the country.

Now, what you expect new chairman to do? Fulfil his duty honestly knowing that he could also get sacked and replaced, regardless of his performance or contract, as performance, contracts, neither honesty matters to new government. Actually, present corrupt political government love corrupt government servants who can help them loot and plunder. Obviously, if present 'FBR Chairman' would try to be honest, work for the betterment of the country, and would resist politicians trying to loot and plunder the country, then he would get sack instantly (as Abdullah Yusuf got sack). Thus, it is very unlikely that present 'FBR Chairman' would resist politicians. Well, if he was that honest, corrupt politicians would not have got him appointed as Chairman FBR anyhow. Hence, it is expected that he would help politician loot and plunder the country. Since he would be helping politician in looting and plundering the country, most likely he would loot and plunder for himself too, as why not for himself when he is doing same for others.

Anyhow, since politicians cannot sack and replace people in Army and intelligence easily, these are the people who mostly resist corrupt politicians, and try to stop them from harming the country. Hence, most propaganda by politicians is against army and intelligence.

[It does not mean that people in Army and Intelligence are all honest (Farishtay), but it means that most in Army and intelligence are loyal to country and seeing that most politicians are corrupt and crook, resist them when see these politicians harming the country]

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Sa1eem,

I do understand your point but was only trying to make it clear that I am not influenced by the negative propaganda of our cheap politicians against the army or intelligence. Actually, just frustrated over these curropt govt. officials. Army must have right over sacking such officials.

And maybe that's why dictatorship (again incase the dictator does not turn corrupt himself) suits Pakistan because there is no sense of 'ethics' at the political / govt. level.

111

What do you mean "IF" India thinks? Ofcourse J&K is part of India and Pakistan can have whatever opinion they may have, it doesn't matter to us.

As to calling for plebiscite, it is really not possible for the following reasons and frankly, none of Pakistan's business.

Reasons:

  • Plebiscite is not possible when Pakistan armed forces are still there!
  • Even if Pakistan withdraws belatedly now, the population mix and attitudes have changed dramatically since when plebiscite was mooted...so the population demography has to be first restored....which obviously is not practical

Pakistan trying to "make life of Indian soldier miserable" is not the kind of strategy that any responsible organization, let alone a country' adopts. As history has proven it only bites Pakistan back. Do you think Pakistan has a bigger terrorist problem or India?

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Well, it is only in Indian wet dream that J & K is part of India. For an area to be part of a country; it has to get accepted by all neighbouring countries and should not be disputed territories; else it is never part of that country. For Pakistan, J&K is part of Pakistan just like UP and Bihar is part of India, that India occupied militarily and some day have to cough up (Full stop). India could not expect peace when they have stolen land of another country (Pakistan).

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India collects taxes in J&K. India appoints the governor of that state. The citizens of J&K apply for and travel using Indian passports. Foreign nations all expect people from J&K to hold Indian passports without which they are not admitted in.

So if this is a wet dream, it is a case of wet dream mirroring reality.

As to neighboring countries accepting - we don't care if Pakistan does or not.

114

Yea, there was time when Britain use to collect taxes in India, use to appoint governors in India. Citizen of India use to travel using passport given by Britain (British Indian passport). Foreign nations use to expect Indians holding British Indian passport without which Indians were not admitted anywhere. Britain also use to say that ... if Indian thinks that they are slave, British are occupying force in India, and that India does not belong to Britain, than it is Indian wet dream.

But time came when Britain have to leave India, because Indian did not accepted British occupation as their destiny, and kept disputing British right to rule India with their struggle. Britain did not cared but eventually, they had to leave.

Same is with 'Jummu and Kashmir', that they do not accept Indian occupation and fortunately they have Pakistan who would keep supporting them in their struggle and their right to fight for their independence from India, as Pakistan does not believe that 'Jummu and Kashmir' is part of India. It took Indians 190 years to come out of British occupation. India is keeping 'Jummu and Kashmir' under their occupation since only 60 years. So, do not worry, as time would come when Kashmiris would also find their independence from Indian occupation.

Do not say that Kashmiries accept Indian occupation and consider themselves as Indian. You should realised that Pakistani soldiers are not losing their life in Azad Kashmir fighting locals but Indians soldiers are losing their lives fighting Kashmiries on daily basis. Indian government knows that Kashmiries consider them as occupying force, else to come out of daily killings of Indian forces in Kashmir (and Indian forces killing Kashmiris), India would have gone for plebiscite to finish this uncertainty and dispute. But India knows that being occupying force, they would lose Kashmir if plebiscite is held, so Indians are using military force to keep Kashmir occupied, just like English use to do with their colonies.

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[quote="Sa1eem"]

You should realised that Pakistani soldiers are not losing their life in Azad Kashmir fighting locals but Indians soldiers are losing their lives fighting Kashmiries on daily basis.QUOTE]

Yes ,true,Pakistan is not losing soldiers in POK.Because terrorists are operating in Kashmir and Indians are fighting terror. We have got thousands of peole to join army from everywhere in India.Even from Kashmir,youths are joning army to fight foreign mercanries coming across LOC.

But for this lull in POK, Pakistan is losing it's soldiers in Baloch and NWFP and the death rate is on the higher side on daily basis,compared to Kashmir.

116

Re: CIA warns I.S.I

You guys should not also forget that Pakistan is notorious for calling their soldiers jihadis and mujahideen etc whenever they are sent across the border. So whereas Indian army will acknowledge their losses and honor the soldiers, the Pakistanis simply disown them as militants.

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Was it us or US calling them mujahideen?

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You are forgetting some very simple facts here.

British came from somewhere to occupy India. Jammu & Kashmir has no foreign occupiers to speak of. Locals elect their state government from locals, like in all other parts of India.

British did not have ethnic commonality with Indians. The people of J&K share that with rest of India.

British were not Hindu & Muslim. People of J&K are, like the rest of India.

Your comparison is therefore totally invalid. What you are doing is like saying since both water and whiskey come in bottles, they are both good for your body.

Aaaj aap ne Lunch main kaya khaya
119

Re: CIA warns I.S.I

Pakistan is losing more soldiers in Baloch alone(NWFP we all see what's happening,and I just do not want to offend my friends here),compared to Indian soldiers becoming `shaheeds' in fight against Kashmir terrorism.

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Re: CIA warns I.S.I

................. Edited myself..............