Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
I thought you meant wahabis in isis etc
No, ISIS is a different story. I don't blame West for everything as much as some posters here would love to assume that.
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
the US could do a lot better, but i have to laugh at the insincerity when it is someone like an arleitter or a hareem who brings up such issues - one a fan of the butcher of gujarat, other a fan of the ruthless inhumane middle eastern dictatorships and monarchies. both of your countries are a few centuries behind the US in terms of basic humanity and equality in society.
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
Yeah the way you talk to people on this site clearly shows your basic humanity.
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
Oh and sincerity.
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
And as much as you guys love to think you're American...well you're not. To white people, you'll always be stinky Indians and Pakis. Ciao
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
clearly you are flustered. 
why start topics you cannot debate without getting bent all out of shape?
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
Torture really is nothing more then a manifestation of humanities baser instinct. Its hardly motivated by anything other then ego. It only goes to show, no matter how advanced and modern your society, no matter how enlightened you pretend to be, at the core of all societies are the barbaric and primitive instincts. The need for control, and vengeance when that control is lost. pure and simple.
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
the US could do a lot better, but i have to laugh at the insincerity when it is someone like an arleitter or a hareem who brings up such issues - one a fan of the butcher of gujarat, other a fan of the ruthless inhumane middle eastern dictatorships and monarchies. both of your countries are a few centuries behind the US in terms of basic humanity and equality in society.
For what its worth, at least the guys in the middle east are open about it. The US does this sort of stuff and still claims to be close to the pinnacle of enlightenment. I mean, it really is rather hypocritical.\
The Sheiks are a known quantity, you know what they are capable of. The US, you really dont know what they can do to you. Take the case of the 16 year old US citizen killed in Yeman simply for being his fathers son... Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty ?
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
no one is claiming the US to be the pinnacle of enlightenment. there is plenty done by the US that is wrong. but guys in the middle east open about their flaws? where? living smug under a monarchy, executing 3rd world countrymen without proper trial as routine procedure, zero history of political awareness, protest or activism, and criticizing a democratic process elsewhere for being imperfect is open?
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
no one is claiming the US to be the pinnacle of enlightenment. there is plenty done by the US that is wrong. but guys in the middle east open about their flaws? where? living smug under a monarchy, executing 3rd world countrymen without proper trial as routine procedure, zero history of political awareness, protest or activism, and criticizing a democratic process elsewhere for being imperfect is open?
Well the Saudis are a-holes, but they dont hide it. They are what they are and they dont try to pretend otherwise.
With the US, you have these lofty ideals as espoused by the Constitution, and then you have rectal hydration and water boarding.
And they are so loathsome these people in the CIA and the Bush administration, they still try to cloak their crimes in the Constitution! so much so that they dont even call torture, TORTURE! Because calling it that would mean they are volating not only US law but international law ! which they are!
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
Torture really is nothing more then a manifestation of humanities baser instinct. Its hardly motivated by anything other then ego. It only goes to show, no matter how advanced and modern your society, no matter how enlightened you pretend to be, at the core of all societies are the barbaric and primitive instincts. The need for control, and vengeance when that control is lost. pure and simple.
Respect!
Hats off to you for speaking the truth!
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
No one is claiming the US (admin) to be the pinnacle of enlightenment?
No that is far off the mark … perhaps some are claiming them to be at or very near the pinnacle of evil - well at least those who they sent to Iraq.
Hersh: Children sodomized at Abu Ghraib, on tape | eddieleaks.org
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
Respect!
Hats off to you for speaking the truth!
The US is great nation for many reasons, and I have much respect and love for her as she has given much to me and my family. But what is wrong is wrong. And many Americans will agree. This is a blatant violation of human rights and people need to be called out for it.
This is why there is a Constitution, which in and of itself is brilliant, but can be manipulated and interpreted to meet whatever ends are necessary.
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
The US is great nation for many reasons, and I have much respect and love for her as she has given much to me and my family. But what is wrong is wrong. And many Americans will agree. This is a blatant violation of human rights and people need to be called out for it.
This is why there is a Constitution, which in and of itself is brilliant, but can be manipulated and interpreted to meet whatever ends are necessary.
sadly, most americans think torture is justified.
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
the US could do a lot better, but i have to laugh at the insincerity when it is someone like an arleitter or a hareem who brings up such issues - one a fan of the butcher of gujarat, other a fan of the ruthless inhumane middle eastern dictatorships and monarchies. both of your countries are a few centuries behind the US in terms of basic humanity and equality in society.
why are you so convinced about Modi? I saw the various investigations cleared him, so is your impression coming solely from 'he was CM when it happened and the buck stops there' kind of responsibility or something more case specific?
I ask because I have been following Modi related affairs for the past two or three years and he comes of as a well intentioned efficient leader. I like it that he doesn't hide his Hindu pride but that doesn't automatically m make him a bigot. Isn't that better than two faced others?
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
The Sheiks of ME have not declared themselves to be fans of base tortures and neither have US declared themselves to be pinnacles of magically civilized torture methods. Both impressions are formed over a long term in public psyche based on actions and behaviors over.
Where the USA shows it is the pinnacle of something is the fact there was an investigation, result disclosure, there was a congressional debate, there was outrage internally.
Stinky browns? only if a browny stinks. For every bigotted 'American' there are more than one un-bigotted American. I am seeing township after townships school boards debating whether holidays should be re-allocated and distributed across religions based on population demographics. That is pretty darn good respect. I see Khan owning sports fanchise and Vivek getting confirmed in spite of NRA oppositions. That is quite respectful.
USA cannot be ever perfect but it strives for it and accomplishes more of it than anyone else.
What respect do you get in Pakistan or India when rowdies stare at every woman passing by and pass remarks lewder than some uncensored hiphop song?
Who is the hypocrite ?
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
The Sheiks of ME have not declared themselves to be fans of base tortures and neither have US declared themselves to be pinnacles of magically civilized torture methods. Both impressions are formed over a long term in public psyche based on actions and behaviors over.
Where the USA shows it is the pinnacle of something is the fact there was an investigation, result disclosure, there was a congressional debate, there was outrage internally.
Stinky browns? only if a browny stinks. For every bigotted 'American' there are more than one un-bigotted American. I am seeing township after townships school boards debating whether holidays should be re-allocated and distributed across religions based on population demographics. That is pretty darn good respect. I see Khan owning sports fanchise and Vivek getting confirmed in spite of NRA oppositions. That is quite respectful.
USA cannot be ever perfect but it strives for it and accomplishes more of it than anyone else.
What respect do you get in Pakistan or India when rowdies stare at every woman passing by and pass remarks lewder than some uncensored hiphop song?
Who is the hypocrite ?
I am an American and have been here most of my life. The idea of "American exceptional-ism" is a real concept. I think its dishonest to say that America doesn't promote itself as the standard bearer of morality. And whether you like it or not, other countries do view the US in those terms, as not necessarily being the standard, but trying to portray itself as one. Which is why so many view the US with suspicion. When a nation invades another country, ostensibly with the aim of promoting "freedom and democracy," doesn't that strike you as being a bit overbearing and pretentious?
That they investigated after the fact is not unusual or exceptional, as even India and Pakistan have carried out investigations. India investigated the Mumbai riots, the Sikh riots, Pakistan investigated the East Pakistan debacle. What counts is what they do once the investigation is complete. Now I can guarantee you that not a single member of the former administration or CIA top brass will be punished.
The US cannot be perfect and that goes without saying. But it would be nice to not constantly trumpet human rights and democracy and denounce dictators when you yourself are engaging in the very same tactics used by the likes of the Chinese! Thats the very definition of Hypocrisy.
And no Pakistan and India are no less hypocritcal in their own way. But this investigation was about American treatment of detainees in Gitmo, not about India or anyone else.
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
sadly, most americans think torture is justified.
Yeah, but then many Americans cant point to Asia on a map if you asked them to.
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
@Med911 both moral superiority and the hypocrisy surrounding claims to action, are a matter of degree. That difference is pretty steep. America can bring out fangs for vengeance or even baser rawness out too - but won't celebrate it
Re: CIA torture brutal and ineffective
USA cannot be ever perfect but it strives for it and accomplishes more of it than anyone else.
USA is far from perfect, you have much more peaceful and better functioning societies in Northern Europe.
USA has, for geopolitical reasons, imposed war on many nations, directly or indirectly, and it has committed heinous war crimes over and over again, without the perpetrators being brought to justice