Re: Muslims who live in the West while hating the West....
Thanks for the mini-course on compounds, Mr F. I kinda figured as much, I just chose to use incendiary terms like internment camp to emphasize my point that they have absolutely no freeedoms unless they choose to live in these segregated societies.
While I realize the benefits of living there, I can't liken it to an American compound for loudspeakers and nudists. We're talking about the very basic practice of religion here. The ability to build a mosque in an American city in plain view of everyone. The right to sit in a public park and read your holy book. The freedom to discuss religion openly in a cafe or academic setting.
If alcohol or other drugs are not allowed in these Saudi compounds, I get it. If there is a dress code for all citizens outside of the compound, I understand why foreigners must obey it as well. While I find the fact women can't drive cars incomprehensible, if it's law the of the land, then foreign women shouldn't be able to drive either.
Something about the very basic right to practice your faith goes beyond any of these cultural laws or norms. The fact that it can only be done in a walled compound is pathetic. So I would say the equivalent American example would be no Qurans for sale in the US outside of Muslim compounds. No mosques except in these walled cities. No Muslims on TV, in government or positions of leadership or authority. No respect for their culture or norms outside of these segregated areas.
While the idea of the compound may not have been to protect the foreigners, I feel sure the security today is to keep them out of harm's way from those who want westerners out of the pennisula and would use violence to do it.
Seminole
The key word is "choose". They choose to live in segregated areas and never mingle with local people or try to assimilate.
I do not know exactly about KSA but have been in other gulf states, they have churches and religious gatherings in hotels etc.
I am sure that if an average gora was as unterested in church as he is in booz, they wud have as much religious freedom as they have to ge drunk.
Re: Muslims who live in the West while hating the West....
Seminole
The key word is "choose". They choose to live in segregated areas and never mingle with local people or try to assimilate.
I do not know exactly about KSA but have been in other gulf states, they have churches and religious gatherings in hotels etc.
I am sure that if an average gora was as unterested in church as he is in booz, they wud have as much religious freedom as they have to ge drunk.
there is a big difference between saudi and other gulf states. saudi govt is run by idiots of the highest degree. if people dont 'choose' to live in those compounds, then they have no options for congregating and practicing their religion.
Re: Churches in Saudi Arabia [split from: Muslims who live in the West while..]
Saudis don't even allow Shi'a masjids to be built.
Yaar bullehsah please if you dont know dotn pass comments.
Shias are mostly based in Dammam and ARAMCO largest company in GCC is based in headquarters in Dammam and that place alone gets around 60 of saudi revenue or even more thats only ARAMCO, with more thatn 60-70percent of shias in Dammam you think saudi governtment would fool around.
No way they are Shia based mosques but under control and scrutiny yes practices such as moharram and other things are prohibited.
But for sure there is a shia mosque, iNsha Allaah when i go to Bahrain via dammam let me visit for your confirmation. Because from hear say i have heard a different story.
Re: Muslims who live in the West while hating the West....
there is a big difference between saudi and other gulf states. saudi govt is run by idiots of the highest degree. if people dont 'choose' to live in those compounds, then they have no options for congregating and practicing their religion.
For goras its a completely different atmosphere compared to Dubai i could spot goras without any effort, but in sauid its just not possible i can hardly find them in shopping malls rarely.
They have different lifestyle and they have provided them each and everything withing the compound, and the walls are raised up high so they have a different life out there.
Yes lots of affluent asians also stay in compounds so its not only restricted to goras
Re: Muslims who live in the West while hating the West....
For goras its a completely different atmosphere compared to Dubai i could spot goras without any effort, but in sauid its just not possible i can hardly find them in shopping malls rarely.
They have different lifestyle and they have provided them each and everything withing the compound, and the walls are raised up high so they have a different life out there.
Yes lots of affluent asians also stay in compounds so its not only restricted to goras
the whole compound argument is a strawman. religious freedom should not be based on whether or not you can afford these walled pockets of freedom where you can go to church. its irrelevant.
if there is any religious basis for not allowing churches in the country (which aside from mecca and madina and a handful of other places is JUST another arab country) it is already defeated when you have churches inside compounds. Its just plain hypocricy, a typical example of saudi govt's emphasis on appearing the bastions of religiosity in order to legitimise themselves.
Regarding your point of shia mosques in dammam. recently yes we hear that shias have been allowed more freedoms, however you're wrong to suggest that shias are allowed to have their own mosques. there is a big difference between a mosque that has a large concentration of shias, and a mosque where shias decide what the sermon sounds like, shias decide what events are held, shias decide how the prayers are said. Until recently there werent mosques like that in KSA.
Re: Muslims who live in the West while hating the West....
the whole compound argument is a strawman. religious freedom should not be based on whether or not you can afford these walled pockets of freedom where you can go to church. its irrelevant.
if there is any religious basis for not allowing churches in the country (which aside from mecca and madina and a handful of other places is JUST another arab country) it is already defeated when you have churches inside compounds. Its just plain hypocricy, a typical example of saudi govt's emphasis on appearing the bastions of religiosity in order to legitimise themselves.
Regarding your point of shia mosques in dammam. recently yes we hear that shias have been allowed more freedoms, however you're wrong to suggest that shias are allowed to have their own mosques. there is a big difference between a mosque that has a large concentration of shias, and a mosque where shias decide what the sermon sounds like, shias decide what events are held, shias decide how the prayers are said. Until recently there werent mosques like that in KSA.
Yes regarding saudis its just an hyprocrisy thats why i have come up with a point of a church and legalizing stuff which is illegal for a normal public.
Such as in ARAMCO they are theatres which is prohibited in whole of saudi why this double standards.
Regarding shias brother i have been very cleear its just hearsay and i havent visited there, but according i have pointed out they are under scrutiny in each and every shia mosque so you have just recreated my point.
I agree they are not allowed to free there arms though it is a shia dominated aread the amir is still a sunni (ofcourse from a royal family).
Regarding your last point like until recently mosques in KSA, i am new here so i am just trying to convey from the hearsay, so dont take my word as final please do correct if i am wrong.