Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

[gudiaali]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@Southie

Dear guidali

First, thank you kindly for your advice re “trying to focus on scenario being discussed”.With respect, let me point out you had used the phrase “live and let live”.

In my humble opinion, it is entirely appropriate to then query you on what does the phrase “Live and let live” mean to you. If you think otherwise, that is OK too. Or, for whatever reason, you feel uncomfortable answering what to me is a set of reasonable questions, that would also be perfectly fine. However, your reluctance to answer the said questions does open the door for assumptions with respect to what exactly the “Live and let live” phrase means to you.

Cheers.

i have already mentioned what live and let live means to me.
anyhow you have the right to assume anything you want regarding my views, i won’t bash you for that!

[Southie]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@gudiaali

i have already mentioned what live and let live means to me.
anyhow you have the right to assume anything you want regarding my views, i won’t bash you for that!

Dear guidali

Thank you so much for your response. I am afraid there appears to be some communication issues between us. To the best of my knowledge u made a statement live and let live. And u probably stated that in this instance , to u that meant the baker had a right to refuse service and not be sued. Your truly looks at the same phrase and comes to the conclusion that this could also mean the gay folks can exercise their right to sue the bakery owner for refusal of service. I am sure you will agree with this.

Thank you for your kind attention. And a special thanks for not bashing me. I am touched by your kindness.

[mahool]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@Southie

That is your view. The world is changing. There are gays who want to get married. Live and let live. What is it to you.

As for why “those who support gay marriage” do so, it is because they believe in Live and Let live.

Just because that’s the way it has been in the past doesn’t mean it should continue forever. Slavery was the norm few hundred years ago. Even in the early sixties coloreds had to sit in the back of the bus. So should these have also continued? The just because this is the way it has been done justification is not for folks who think for themselves. It is for those who follow. Each of us has a choice if we follow unjust practices. Or foster change.

Normal marriages are between opposite genders, since gay marriages are so artificial, natural method method of intimacy is not applied in gay couple, it does not make sense both socially and ethically.

#SayNoToGayMarriages](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=SayNoToGayMarriages)

[Sentry]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

16 pages? My thread causing bare drama.

(I don’t have time to read it, someone give me a summary).

#realifeproblems](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=realifeproblems)

[Shak]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@Sentry

16 pages? My thread causing bare drama.

(I don’t have time to read it, someone give me a summary).

#realifeproblems](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=realifeproblems)

Most emphatic tltr comment if I saw one :hehe:

[Sentry]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@Shak

Most emphatic tltr comment if I saw one

I’m a man of few words..

[muqawwee123]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@Sentry

16 pages? My thread causing bare drama.

(I don’t have time to read it, someone give me a summary).

#realifeproblems](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=realifeproblems)

too cut it short: aap ne Ramadan main boht sawaab kamaya hai :snooty:

[Sentry]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@muqawwee123

too cut it short: aap ne Ramadan main boht sawaab kamaya hai

Ching chang walla.

[sweefs]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@Jolie

Okay I have no idea what’s going on in this thread. But I’m going to offer my opinion based on the local reception this news has received. So spare me all the sneers, malice and nonsensical one liners if you don’t agree with me or don’t even want to understand the point. I’d like be the bigger person and apologise to you in advance for hurting any egos.

Just to get this thread back on topic and invite more serious posters with different ideas and opinions, following is my understanding of the case:

Gay marriages are illegal in Northern Ireland, and this case is going to the court. I’m not a legal expert, but it’d be interesting to see how the court will punish someone for not supporting something that state itself calls it illegal. Although Equality Commission by default is obliged to proceed with any complaint they receive.

Secondly, I assume people are under impression that the bakery straight up refused to take order from the couple based on their sexual orientation? Wrong. The customers were not refused the services because of their sexual orientation - the order was taken (some say the cake got baked as well). However, baker simply refused to support a political message on the cake which which he found disrespectful (or whatever) to his values and belief, and ironically it’s also a message that the state itself stands against. If the baker was criminal for not supporting a certain political statement (not refusing the service) then where does this leave the idea of of freedom of conscience? Freedom of speech?

There’s no record of bakery refusing services to Gays in the past, however, it has refused to write foul language, draw offensive and pornographic images on the cakes. What shall we say about that? Seems like the baker would’ve objected the message even if it was requested by straight couple, single male or a female etc etc.

So this is bit of context for the overall controversy and the situation in Northern Ireland. Hopefully, it’ll lead to a healthy discussion and exchange of ideas from different posters.

If not, then let’s just say that I can’t be arsed about people who only see things in black and white order. My post isn’t to convince any of those poor souls. Just like I believe in freedom of conscience and freedom of speech, I also believe that downplaying discrimination is a slippery slope. If you allow one particular set of discrimination to cary on as normal, all other forms and types of discrimination eventually start to make sense in some twisted way. So on that note, lets see whether the Irish court calls it a case direct discrimination or individual’s right to freedom of belief .

@Mezhgan

Honestly though, people on this thread must calm themselves. It is quite possible to express one’s opinion without:

• Making unfounded assumptions about others
• Malicious comments about others
• Attacking the moral character of others
• Questioning the intelligence of others
• Mudslinging and snide comments

Bluntly put, everyone must grow up! If you do not agree with someone’s view, that is okay. If someone does not agree with your view, that is equally okay. We all have different viewpoints and view life differently. It stands to reason that we will not all agree on everything.

this. end of.

[Southie]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@mahool

Normal marriages are between opposite genders, since gay marriages are so artificial, natural method method of intimacy is not applied in gay couple, it does not make sense both socially and ethically.

#SayNoToGayMarriages](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=SayNoToGayMarriages)

Thank you for your input. You have finally convinced me. I agree.

Cheers.

[bella88]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

^ i know right, never seen anything this convincing.
#SayYesToTolerance
#CakesForEveryone](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=SayYesToTolerance)

[Scherbatsky]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

Based on the Canadian Charter and the Human Rights Code in Canada, if writing messages on a cake is a service you generally offer but specifically refused to do it because it supports same-sex marriage, you are discriminating on the grounds of sexual orientation and therefore will most likely be prosecuted. Because your right to pornography isn’t protected under the Charter, upon refusing that you may argue discrimination based on freedom of expression or a variation thereof but not as clear cut as sexual orientation. Similarly, if an atheist and pro gay marriage bakery was requested to write, “There is only one true God,” they’d have to do it. But if a Jewish owner was asked to write Fuk Israel then he could cry discrimination based on country-of-origin protection. So yes, here it’s clear cut discrimination (according to the Canadian common law).

Southie, I am truly embarrassed to have been one of the vocal members advocating your unban and return to GS a few short months ago. Your Liberal facade was given away quite quickly when you used the terms like ‘lame’ which no true liberal would use out of respect for the disabled/differently-abled human beings. Your posts in this thread about beef sales in India are condescending and downplay the ‘availability of beef’ for Muslims on one out of only two days they are encouraged to celebrate. If you were truly what you say you believe, the first thing you’d understand is that the person who thinks cow urine holy and the one who wants to purchase beef are both equally entitled and should be given equal opportunity at all times to do as they wish. Lastly, when you continually say you’re backing out of a thread and repeatedly show up, you are either saying: a) you don’t mean what you say b) you’re publicly displaying your disregard for a); c) you are feeble in your words and it doesn’t really affect you very much so you have zero credibility d) and so your opinion is - as you’d like to put it - of no equal value - but out of respect for a fellow human (I’ll play your game now), I’d say it’s your right but just horse**

Just to be crystal clear then, Pragniemy was obłudnikach prorokował ale różnica między nami jest taka, że można twierdzić inaczej

[sweefs]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

Why are you guys more interested in giving your opinions on each other rather than stick to the topic at hand in a civil way? Lets drop this now.

[Southie]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

Just to be clear, I had stated I am against even a one minute ban on beef sale. The first post had not mentioned bakra eid example. It simpy stated muslins cant buy beef on Gandhi jayanthi. So I stated 364 out of 365 days is good. Tbat one day folks can buy a day earlier. Then the bakra eid issue was given. I found in last 3 years it didn’t fall on Gandhi Jayanthi and stated as such. I just did a search. Since 2003 or last 11 yrs it has not fallen on Gandhi Jayanthi. That is 0 out of 4000 days. Key words used in Google search any year - for example 2013 - “Bakra eid data 2013”. Repeated this for 2003 - 2012. Any error in methodology is inadvertent.

Discrimination of any sort is bad. But if one can’t distinguish between one day out of 365 (and 0 days in last 3 yrs) and the daily discrimination that gays face, I thought that needed clarification. So I stated on this specific issue there is a false equivalency. And acknowledged that there is discrimination against Muslims in India. I do consider this an objective assessment.

Truly had not thought of the word “lame” association with the disabled. Having a disabled person in my family, wouldn’t dream of using a pejorative or hurtful term that puts disabled people down. But you are correct. I did use it. I won’t in the future. That I did it without making the connection is not an excuse.

No further comments and clarifications.

Thanks.

[Scherbatsky]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@sweefs

Why are you guys more interested in giving your opinions on each other rather than stick to the topic at hand in a civil way? Lets drop this now.

You’d know as you clearly do the same:

@sweefs

And maula, seriously cut it out. Your attitude stinks, whether its with this nick or your previous one. If you cant continue to respond to people in a civil manner, i suggest you stop responding to them.

[Maula_Jatt]

@Mezhgan

Honestly though, people on this thread must calm themselves. It is quite possible to express one’s opinion without:

• Making unfounded assumptions about others
• Malicious comments about others
• Attacking the moral character of others
• Questioning the intelligence of others
• Mudslinging and snide comments

Bluntly put, everyone must grow up! If you do not agree with someone’s view, that is okay. If someone does not agree with your view, that is equally okay. We all have different viewpoints and view life differently. It stands to reason that we will not all agree on everything.

Summed it up id say.

[Mezhgan]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@sweefs

Why are you guys more interested in giving your opinions on each other rather than stick to the topic at hand in a civil way? Lets drop this now.

^ This, exactly!!!

[sweefs]

Re: Christian bakers refuse gay wedding cake - face legal action

@Scherbatsky

You’d know as you clearly do the same:

uhuh, because this is clearly your business and i’m curious why you’re pointing this out? as a moderator, the job is to moderate threads. people are clearly more interested in carrying their personal vendettas or whatever you want to call it. when responding to maula i did not do it because of a personal vendetta, i did it because he has a consistent theme of getting over emotional and riled up when discussing with other members. besides, maula’s a big boy i’m sure he can talk for himself.

but it’s nice to know you keep tabs, good for you. if you want to respond, go right ahead and PM me but i feel this topic is at its end as i think everybody and their grandma have talked about the thread and each other enough.