Re: chriatians...who they are?
khatmal uncle, admit it or not, fairy tales are the very basis of your religion too. adam and eve flopping down from heaven? angels coming down as messengers? jinns? the grimm brothers would have had a field day...
Re: chriatians...who they are?
lol.. I edited that out because I thought it had nothing to do with this discussion
but oh well let me answer that... you see GOD answers all those questions in the QURAN and for those that don't believe the Quran... too bad
the facts that I provided concern the bible and that it doesn't mention trinity or christianity
and I believe in the orriginal bible... so my criticism differs from all those who just join a pakistani forum to insult their religion
Re: chriatians...who they are?
Ok, one step at a time then
1) Provide a credible link to the "original Bible" or at least quote the original and the changed as opposed to just hurling insults and until you do, basically, it's unproven. As of right now what you call facts are just hearsay.
- as a Catholic I know that the Latin version of the Bible has been unchanged for longer than the Quran even existed (since the 3rd-4th century) and not until the 1950-60's has the Catholic Church accepted a translated copy (not had an English copy, accepted one, two different things).
2) The sentence I gave to you was your own just applying to your faith, it is not a belief that I have or something I believe as true.
Khatmal - believe what you wish about my intensions here on the board, totally your perogative. My Bible doesn't mention Mohammed and I could just as easily as yourself say that he doesn't exist because he isn't mentioned and my Bible is holy to me, but unlike you, I realize that you are entitled to your belief and the respect that goes with it. Also, unlike yourself, I am openminded enough to believe that God touches more than one person and leads people to him with more than one faith because God is not limited in any capacity and that includes love for all of his children as long as they reach out to him.
Do you think a God that is loving enough to give you a life in his image approves of your condemning and ridiculing others on the mistaken belief that because you follow him one way you are somehow either superior (since we are all equal) or that you have figured out how God thinks? That is a whole lot of pride and contempt for someone claiming to be a believer.
Re: chriatians...who they are?
1) I have never insulted you personally
2) what is the new testemant? and what not?
3) I am not forcing you to stop believing in what you want... I am just asking you to provide me with text from the bible that says jesus was a chrisitan and preached christianity... and also where the concept of trinity is mentioned
you are assumign too much... all I said was pretty simple and was not a hatefull post at all... unlike the posts of our resident priests
Re: chriatians...who they are?
also... there are many scholars who have written books about the mentioning of the last prophet in the holy bible
but that's not the topic at hand
Re: chriatians...who they are?
Christianity should be called either Constantineism or Paulism, both of whom had a lot to do with its creation......Whereas Jefus had nothing to do with Christianity.....
And if Catholics fail to see through the simple fact that their religion is nothing but Roman paganism then more power to them.....
Re: chriatians…who they are?
Since this is becoming a slugfest as opposed to an actual discussion, let me address a few misconceptions
Paul was a disciple of Jesus, he followed and learned with Jesus and his writings are a part of the Bible with the writings of other disciples. The original church was lead by Paul, hence Paulism.
Constantine 
Roman Paganism considering where the birthplace of christianity is -
Khatmal - do you realize exactly how illiterate you sound with those points. Do me a favor, look up the origin of the word christian and then ask yourself who was Christ? You may be surprised at the OBVIOUS answer to what you want me to post, geesh
btw - still waiting for the “original Bible” you believe so much in
Re: chriatians...who they are?
minah_pa you still haven't found trinity in the bible have you?
the orriginal bible was the one god sent down and it was not even close to being in latin
but after the cross worshipers changed it a million times... it is no longer the word of god
I sound illeterate? you are the one who believes that the latin bible is the real deal... when jesus didn't even speak the language.... now c'mmon
and joseph is right... christianity is nothing but roman paganism
Re: chriatians...who they are?
Trinity?
oh as in the fomous words of Ahmed Deedat:
"God is a Person, Jesus is a Person, and Holy Ghost is a person. So there is a person + a person + a person makes them three different persons but they are not three they are one, i.e. 1+1+1 = 1"
Re: chriatians...who they are?
Anwaar - God is something that is undefinable, God is God, if God wishes to appear as a person to his people, then he does. He does as he wishes. God is also limitless. YOU can't appear as more than one thing, but God can do as he wishes. Are you presuming to put the same limitation on God that you have? God created all, does it make it impossible that he can be all?
If you don't believe God is capable of being a part of the Trinity, that is your failing, not one of God's.
Khatmal - again as in everything else you posted, nothing to back you up. Prove it
Re: chriatians…who they are?
I also understand that Jinns can change their forms too to animals like Lion, Cat, Snake etc.
As for God coming as God in form of humans, here is what Islam says:
5:75 Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth**. They had both to eat their (daily) food**. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!
So when you eat, you are prone to the human necessities. God, in Islam, is all clean from such.
Re: chriatians...who they are?
minah_pa I do not have to prove anything here... it is you who needs to prove that the concept of trinity is in the bible... and also to provide proof that the so called religion of christianity is real and that jesus preached it
Re: chriatians...who they are?
you need to answer the questions... and need to stop trying to point out my illeteracy
it would be helpful to get proper answers from a christian for the first time ever....
no christian to this date has been able to answer questions straight up in all the debates that I have seen and heard
Re: chriatians...who they are?
[quote]
5:75 Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!
[/quote]
Amen
Re: chriatians…who they are?
I’ll answer as a pure European (no religious belief below):
-Christmas is on the 25th of december because our ancestors pagan beliefs and feast were based on nature cycles as the sun cycle, so they were celebrating the winter solstice which is the longest night in the year, cause they feared if they didn’t the winter might not have ended thereafter. You might object that December 21st is the real winter solctice, but that proves the point: Romans were wise enough not to put christmas on the same day as the previous holyday, they slighty differed it.
Same with death cult, the official catholic date is November 2nd, but November 1st has taken on the “All saints day”, because it was the previous holiday to honor death people.
-Esatern replace also another pagan feast associated to paganism cult of fertility, as sping is the fertile season and eastern is in spring (eastern eggs are an obvious symbol of fertility)…etc…
So catholic cult is widely intertwined with our ancestors paganism, just as some muslim practices in Hindustan is mixed with Hindustani paganism and traditions(example:saint cult) and Roman/ Hindustani paganisms share a common origin: the Indoeuropean paganism.
So when saying "Roman Paganism ", it’s not the birthplace of catholic christianity which is an issue but the wide diffusion of it by Romans, as you mentioned yourself Minah-pa, the bible was only in latin not so long ago (as far as catholics are concerned), do you know what language Jesus was speaking?
It was Aramean (if I’m rightly remembering catachism), a semitic language (ie. related to Hebrew and Arabic), so far from Indoeuropean languages such as Greek (orthodox church) and Latin(catholic church), hence the biased translations.
So to distance themselves from all this Roman paganism, some people had the idea to return to the basic meaning of the bible…you live in USA, so I guess you know the following of the (his)story!
Re: chriatians…who they are?
The thread was not about Validity of christian beliefs I guess, for those who missed the first post …
First of All, welcome missagate4pak in this forum. A little intro will be helpful
muslims hate christians.is it true or not
Some muslims hate/despise Christians, Some hate all the Non-muslim, But most sadly some Muslims hate other muslims.
Importantly, there is a large majority who do not hate fellow humans, according to the teaching of Islam.
does all europe is christians?
Not all, but majority is christian.
Re: chriatians…who they are?
u’re catholic…wow…i didnt know that…
i like good catholics though… and U are ONE of them
Re: chriatians...who they are?
guess what guys n gals??
i just feel like laughin my F**g guts out when this whole discussion of my religion Vs. ur religion comes up.
i'm a guy who'z got a pak dad and irish mom. the irish relatives wanna see me go catholic. the paki. relatives wanna see me go as a devout mullah.
but guess what i think?
i dont give a F**G thought to either of these.
i know there must be a GOD but i wont disagree with any scientist who wants to convince me about God's non-existence.
i wont argue/disagree with anyone who wants to prove that their religion offers all answers.
i dont care about any of this. coz i just dont wanna.
i only know that i'm on this earth just like the other gazillions of people. as long as i'm here, i gotta live a life and be happy and if i can, then make a few others happy as well. for that i need food, clothing and shelter and some ego puffing extras as well. for that i gotta make money. for that i gotta do a job that helps someone else do his job and so on further.
the way i see it, its all one big circular chain of events that happen simultaneously. unfortunately humans happened to be creatures of emotion as well. so, somebody starts a discussion as to the "best" way to go about making the big circle of events successful. one thing leads to another and religion,which is said to give guidance as to the right way of life, enters this discussion.
but i prefer to keep out of it, cos i know i got a brain and a thing called common-sense which comes out of it. i know that if a particular religion is proven as the "better" religion, it aint gonna put food in my stomach, it aint gonna gimme clothes to wear and it aint gonna gimme a place to shelter myself.
so what do i basically get out of arguing Pro's and Con's of one religion over another? nada...nothing!
it'll just puff my ego a lil, if my religion is proved to b the bettr religion. nothin more than that.
So basically the world can argue as much as they want about this topic of my religion Vs yours crap....but i wont be pulled into it. no sir, i won't.
you ask me, what religion do i actually support?
Common-sense, cos thats the only thing i know God has given me and not my fellow men.
Peace :)
Re: chriatians...who they are?
naved - pleasepleaseplease tell me you are not my son, lol, at least that you are not in philadelphia :)
FF- thank you, You aren't too bad urself
parissenoor -
[QUOTE]
So when saying "Roman Paganism ", it's not the birthplace of catholic christianity which is an issue but the wide diffusion of it by Romans, as you mentioned yourself Minah-pa, the bible was only in latin not so long ago (as far as catholics are concerned), do you know what language Jesus was speaking?
It was Aramean (if I'm rightly remembering catachism), a semitic language (ie. related to Hebrew and Arabic), so far from Indoeuropean languages such as Greek (orthodox church) and Latin(catholic church), hence the biased translations.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I know that, which is why I said from the 3-4th century. Latin from 3-4th century to present day then to an accepted English version is not a whole lot of change.
Re: chriatians...who they are?
mommy....i mean.....minah......LOL.
nope i aint no philly boy.