ThandyMazaq, the Holy Prophet (saw) didn't attack a trade caravan. It is a factor of imagination of those who want to accuse Islam of being a violent religion and also those who actually use Islam for their violent/terrorist cause.
Re: Choose Your Boat.
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*Originally posted by underthecross: *
Its just many Muslims on this board try to give concocted justifications so that they can juggle both religion and western oppression at the same time, Please come clean or convince me:)
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These are the Mod Muslims, so desparately trying to fit in and live the American dream, but at the same time, try to cling on to some last remnants of an Islamic indentity. Their justifications are aimed more towards themselves rather than skeptical Non-Muslims.
There is no moderate Islam. It's all there in black and white. The only grey areas are the ones we make.
all the sahih hadiths tell us that the prophet :saw: was going to attack the trade caravan..if you can provide credible proof then you have a point otherwise you dont…how about the evidence?
Talk about concocted justifications so that they can juggle both religious piety and violence. Man the lifeboats, that boat is sinking fast!
Semi, it's not a debate. It's a counter statement to set the record straight. Now if they want to keep their head in the sand then I can't help them, even God doesn't help those who don't help themselves.
A pity indeed! Well-established nicks of Gupshup are quick to Judge and turn the thread into a personal analysis of UTC.(To hell with UTC)
The westerners on this board are trying to pull similitudes between OBL and me where as the Muslims have termed me as a Heretic. At least I maintained a balance, which was my aim …
Stu I used the term “We” because If I had used the term “They” It would have seemed I am biased neither my question nor the thread would have carried any weight with the Muslim’s on this board. The question is posed to Muslims ..isn’t it.
Chachoo:
- Are you inferring that under the current situation Muslims should remit retaliation by way of charity even when they are not allowed to offer their prayers in Musjid-ul-Aqsa (Islams first Qibla). Isnt it true that Quran clearly says that when the infidels stop muslims to pray in their holy sights they(Muslims) should declare a war against the infidels? (Please any one who knows the correct ayat , post it here)
- The Ummah concept is very much there , I would suggest You do some reading.
- Neither have I accused anyone nor do I have a boat. I have stated mere facts its you who should choose.
Phoenix: The correct stats are 313 Muslims against 1000 + infidels. So I would agree with the 1 : 3 concept. But remember I said “some” would think of it as a suicide mission I would like you to elaborate on the subtle difference between Martyrdom and sacrificing your life in the name of ISLAM.
To Help you choose your boat I ask a simple question once again:-
“what is Islam’s standing under the pretext of modern warfare(when the oppressor is far more capable than Muslims) when muslims are being persecuted and not allowed to practice their religion freely.”
The Prophet Never attacked any caravan, it was just that the trade route passed through Madina and the Kaffirs were assuming they would be attacked so they preemptively retaliated. Abu-sufiyan was the head of one of the caravans passing through. The caravan was bound for Makkah and had originated from Syria. When the Kaffirs got word that Muslims would attack / stop the caravan they attacked and that’s the reason for War of Badar.
Seminole: Please don’t jump to conclusion based on an unfounded comment made by any Guppy here Just so that you can badmouth Islam. It reflects as a childish and Hateful attitude. Get rid of this hate. Hatred is an acid that destroys the container that contains it and in your case the container is about to overflow.
PS: Please respect all faiths , at least in this thread. Thank you.
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The question is posed to Muslims ..isn’t it.
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Dear Muslims and non Muslims
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Wrong again at the most basic of levels skipper.
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*Originally posted by Stu: *
Wrong again at the most basic of levels skipper.
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I. I. Deck boy.:)
Its for non-muslims to read and muslims to answer , rather its quite obvious But...
Enough.
I'm no navy boy like yourself there skipper, but I do know that it's "aye aye" not "I. I."
Enjoy your little boat ride w/your fundo buddies. It will be a short one I hope.
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mission I would like you to elaborate on the subtle difference between Martyrdom and sacrificing your life in the name of ISLAM.
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There is none.
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“what is Islam’s standing under the pretext of modern warfare(when the oppressor is far more capable than Muslims) when muslims are being persecuted and not allowed to practice their religion freely.”
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In Islam there are no separate strategies as such on how to counter different types of opponents. It's a pretty simple concept, fight with all that you've got IF AND ONLY IF Muslims or the Islamic way of life is under attack/danger. That is of the utmost importance, everything else is secondary.
And before you ask, NO, that does not mean go around suicide bombing at every crowded place you can find because I don't think PEACEFUL CIVILIANS pose any threat to Islam.
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*Originally posted by skhan: *
And before you ask, NO, that does not mean go around suicide bombing at every crowded place you can find because I don't think PEACEFUL CIVILIANS pose any threat to Islam.
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Just quoting it as it needs to be said twice. If not more.
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*Originally posted by underthecross: *
Please don’t jump to conclusion based on an unfounded comment made by any Guppy here Just so that you can badmouth Islam. It reflects as a childish and Hateful attitude. Get rid of this hate. Hatred is an acid that destroys the container that contains it and in your case the container is about to overflow.
PS: Please respect all faiths , at least in this thread. Thank you.
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It seems the ones who don't respect Islam or the messenger are the ones who claim he attacked caravans. I didn't badmouth Islam and I stand by my statement that if people believe Muhammed attacked innocents, it goes a long way to explain the atrocities some commit (or condone) in the name of religion. So please don't accuse me of hate, if I hated Islam or Muslims I wouldn't be posting on this bb.
underthecross excellent thread and something I’ve been thinking about for a long long time :k:
since 9/11 i’ve been trying to choose my boat.
i’m not in Fraudz’s and ChaChoo’s boat.
i was in pakistan when 9/11 happenned. many people were rejoicing. lets be honest. 90% ppl were rejoicing.
at a posters shop, the shopkeeper said OBL posters were selling like hot cakes. ppl were naming their new born sons osama. and bus drivers and truck drivers had his pic hung in their buses and trucks.
my dad teaches islamic studies and pakistan studies in a private all boys school and he took a survey in the classroom and 9 out of 10 boys said they were happy with the attacks.
i did not yet make up my mind if the attacks were good or bad.
fall semester started. i went back to america. everyone there was appalled by the attacks and condemned them including my most religious and conservative american raised muslim friends.
i was still confused. if those muslims in that plane really had done that with the intention of jihad to protect the rights of their oppressed muslim brethren, am i to say they did something wrong? but then what abt the mothers, fathers, wives, husbands, children who lost their relatives in those attacks?
my friend tried to convince me that it was wrong. she told me that jihad in islam has very strict rules: u cant even cut trees in jihad.
but i still was not 100% convinced.
in the end i decided that i dont NEED to decide b/c i am not ALL KNOWING ALL WISE. all that’s my business is my actions and thats what Allah swt will ask me abt on qayamat. the rest, Allah swt KNOWS abt and will decide.
so i guess we should just be sure we keep our actions on the straight path and we dont NEED to choose boats.
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*Originally posted by Stu: *
Enjoy your little boat ride w/your fundo buddies. It will be a short one I hope.
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II Deck boy.
When the journey ends YOU/& ur buddies will know of it.
PS:A ridiculous comment begets a ridiculous response.
Once upon a time I really respected your posts...but Alas!!
:ignore stu ON:
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*Originally posted by skhan: *
There is none.
In Islam there are no separate strategies as such on how to counter different types of opponents. It's a pretty simple concept, fight with all that you've got IF AND ONLY IF Muslims or the Islamic way of life is under attack/danger. That is of the utmost importance, everything else is secondary.
And before you ask, NO, that does not mean go around suicide bombing at every crowded place you can find because I don't think PEACEFUL CIVILIANS pose any threat to Islam.
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Skhan.
At least someone understood me I was beginning to think that I was in the twilight zone.
SO let me understand this, if the muslims in Palestine are hindered from offering prayers in Masjid ul aqsa they can fight with what ever they have got :- that means they can suicide bomb the israeli army and tanks but not the civilians, so there is no concept of “collateral Damage” in Islam. Good!
Did I get that right?
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*Originally posted by phoenixdesi: *
In battle of Badar, though Muslims were far less than kaffirs but it was still a ratio of 1 to 3. Prophet Muhammed would have never engaged his followers for a suicide mission (naooz billah) as suggested by underthecross. It was a well planned and calculated step by prophet Muhammad PBUH. After migration on to medinah, Rasoolullah (saws) had encouraged the Muslims to oppose the Quraish caravan which was returning to Mecca from Sham. Muslims went out with 300 and some soldiers, not intending to fight but only to overpower them. The caravan escaped, but Abu Sufyan had already sent word to Quraish kaffirs to come and protect it. The Quraish marched with enormous army of 1000 men and that led to battle of badar.
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Your analysis of Badr is diametrically opposite to what we've always been taught in Islamiat. It certainly was not a suicide mission but it was proof that strength does not lie in numbers or material might, but instead in faith in Allah swt. Thus I don't think your argument applies in this case.
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*Originally posted by Stu: *
everyone who considers the 9-11 to be martyrs.
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STU, its none of my or any other Muslim's business to decide if those people were martyrs of criminals. Its something between them and God. We can hold an opinion, sure, but I think, holding an opinion when you dont know the WHOLE TRUTH (which ONLY ALLAH knows) is pointless.
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*Originally posted by skhan: *
And before you ask, NO, that does not mean go around suicide bombing at every crowded place you can find because I don't think PEACEFUL CIVILIANS pose any threat to Islam.
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We are mashallah Muslims and are better than those who want to achieve their purposes by HOOK or CROOK. Islam has told us that there is a RIGHT way to achieve our aims.
HOWEVER, that said, we are no ones to say that suicide bombers are going to hell or heaven? Thats between them and Allah and not for us to say.
This is a confusing issue.
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*Originally posted by underthecross: *
Skhan.
At least someone understood me I was beginning to think that I was in the twilight zone.
SO let me understand this, if the muslims in Palestine are hindered from offering prayers in Masjid ul aqsa they can fight with what ever they have got :- that means they can suicide bomb the israeli army and tanks but not the civilians, so there is no concept of “collateral Damage” in Islam. Good!
Did I get that right?
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Right on target. (No pun intended). However, do realize that in every form of warfare, even between armies, there is some collateral damage. That is inevitable, wouldn't you agree. But that should never be the intention and should always be avoided and civilians should never be the target.
:k: