Of course it will not change in a day ..... till 30 years back China had a huge population living below poverty line .... they worked hard and have reached a place which is envy of west.
India is on similar path ... already signs are progress are there to be seen .... globally India is being talked about as a future economy to look at .....it will take maybe another 10-15 or even 20 years but it is on that path and that is what matters !!!!!!
Last ten years have changed lives of millions another 10-20 will change lives of more ...... Rome was not built in a day .... it is the path that matters. That is something that is lost in Pakistan .... they are still an aid - depended economy and it seems all they care is how much they can do damage to India rather then what good they can do for their people !!!!!
Abay oh genius, stick to current conditions and phorget MAY BE 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, days, weeks, years, centuries from now. After all a bird in hand is better then two in bush, comprende genius????? When you are there then come post your bombast until then concentrate on slums, poverty, starvation, suicides, infrastructure which beats poverty hands down.
Well let me give you a free lesson in Pakistani history ..... In 1971 when Indian forces were "driving" through east Pakistan and the leadership was crying for help ... where were the Chinese ???? Perhaps the only time they "should" have helped .... so what makes you belive that they will respond when Pakistan is in dire need of help in future !!!!!
Gwadar was built keeping Chineese interests in mind .... the Chinese are offering similar assisstance to other countries too !!!! So what is special about this relationship.
Save your Indian garage. The single victory you have had is hardly your own.
You have never been able to defeat Pak in a fair fight, and the one army that was equal to your raped you in every which way.
There is a limit to what the Americans can do. On their part they did provide us the hardware needed to fight you.
They also prevented an invasion of the Western front. Offcourse, regardless, having an alliance with these countries is beneficial over all.
The Chinese dont do anything without their intrest in mind. No country doen anything without there own intrest in mind. Same with bases in Pakistan.
No one said it was special, the US has bases across the world. Whats special in that?
The Russians sold jets and military equipment to many other countries, how is Indias relationship special?
India might have been a Soviet satellite state (per Mitrokhin archives) but is prospering and doing better than Russia today.
Pakistan on the other hand, was controlled by the US and is still controlled by the US. And lets not even talk about growth & development :)
So now lets come back to the topic at hand, shall we ?
As is every other country in the world. America is hugely influential. If the Americans choose to twist Indias balls they would cringe just the same if not more:)
When more then half your country cant find a proper meal, and subsist on scraping crap of other peoples toilets, you expect to be in a match with China!
The day you are a match for China is the day Indians stop having to squat outside their home to relieve themselves. So dont hold your breath!
Pakistan was seeking the aid from China, an important ally, as it faces the possibility of defaulting on its current account payments.
With the United States and other nations preoccupied by a financial crisis, and Saudi Arabia, another traditional ally, refusing to offer concessions on oil, China was seen as the last port of call before the I.M.F.
Accepting a rescue package from the fund would be seen as humiliating for Mr. Zardari’s government, which took office this year.
But Pakistan had also hoped China would deposit $1.5 billion to $3 billion in its central bank, according to senior officials at the I.M.F. and Western donor countries.
After asking for $ 1.5 Billion … the Chinese did give something to its “ally” …
Exactly, East Pakistan had nothing to do with India. It was a mastake on the part of Pakistan. Completely internal matter that India blows out of proportion.
India can ahardly call it a victory because Pakistan was already long defeated in the East.
Your point is not a point. Its an obvious conclusion regarding alliances in general.
ALL alliances are ultimately based on self intrest.
Turkey for example refused to allow the US to use its bases at the start of the Iraq war.
France also refused to take part.
Alliances dont mean you give up everything. Its often mutually beneficial.
By allowing China a base a gawadar, Pakistan can essentially limit the India navies control in the Indian ocean. It is also beneficial to Pakistan because it provides a second large port after Karach. Im not going to go into all the benefits of this to Pakistan, but if you read anything other then bollywood magazines you can figure it out.
Anyways, much of the cooperation has been in the fields of defense and such.
Economic cooperation is only starting to expand, as with the FTA with Chna.
As for the financial help, Pakistan doesnt actually deserve it. China has helped bail Pakistan out before, and honestly, I dont expect them to give money away in such circumstances.
For how the relationship with the Chinese has helped Pakistan, just google it.
Here as an example.
By allowing China a base a gawadar, Pakistan can essentially limit the India navies control in the Indian ocean.
You are again confriming my point ..... to you Gwadar means limiting Indian navy !!!!! While as for China ... this is of a greater strategic value, to them it is worth its weight in gold. Which unfortunately Paksitan was not able to "extract" as they thought only about limiting India. So who is the loser here !!!
Pakistan was not asking for aid of $ 1.5 to $ 3 billion from China ......... all it wanted was China to deposit this "foreign exchange" in its bank so that it could meet its financial obligation and would not have to go to IMF for cripling loans. What happened ????? An ally indeed !!!!!
Apart from Azad Kashmir, given the importance of our relationships and mutual interests with China, Pakistan should encourage China to open a consulate in Sialkot as well.
You are again confriming my point ..... to you Gwadar means limiting Indian navy !!!!! While as for China ... this is of a greater strategic value, to them it is worth its weight in gold. Which unfortunately Paksitan was not able to "extract" as they thought only about limiting India. So who is the loser here !!!
Pakistan was not asking for aid of $ 1.5 to $ 3 billion from China ......... all it wanted was China to deposit this "foreign exchange" in its bank so that it could meet its financial obligation and would not have to go to IMF for cripling loans. What happened ????? An ally indeed !!!!!
Yeah. Its mutually beneficial!
And are you implying that a sea port is not beneficial? Are you kidding me?
Besides limiting India, it has immense economic value. I cant imagine why you wouldnt understand the potential economic value in a seaport!
And personally im glad they didnt get the deposit. They need a slap on the face to get them started.
You are again confriming my point ..... to you Gwadar means limiting Indian navy !!!!! While as for China ... this is of a greater strategic value, to them it is worth its weight in gold. Which unfortunately Paksitan was not able to "extract" as they thought only about limiting India. So who is the loser here !!!
Pakistan was not asking for aid of $ 1.5 to $ 3 billion from China ......... all it wanted was China to deposit this "foreign exchange" in its bank so that it could meet its financial obligation and would not have to go to IMF for cripling loans. What happened ????? An ally indeed !!!!!
Yeah. But thats only one aspect of it. There are economic benefits aswell. Google it if you are so capable.
Its worth its weight in gold for all parties.... Pakistan DID NOT jsut think about exctracting only the single benefit.
Pakistan has not extracted full benefit yet for multiple reasons.
1. The port just opened a year or two ago.
2. The infrastructure is still being developed in that area. For example, we still need a rail tracks connecting Gawadar to the north.
3. There is a general down turn in economic activity in Pakistan.
4. The law and order situation doesnt permit full benefits of the project. For one thing, Afghanistan which would through the port have quickest access to the gulf through Gawadar is wreck currently. China has to be connected through Balochistan, which is also a wreck.
5. The global down turn has meant that trade is also down, so this a concern for developed ports around the world, Dubai for example has seen a huge down turn. So if a huge developed port city like Dubai is feeling the heat, imagine what its like for a port like Gawadar which is only just beginning!
As for alliances and what the mean, thats a moot point. Alliances dont mean you give things for free. And they dont always work to your advantage.
America has had to deal with the unreliable allies for years. But alliances such as these do pay dividends in the long run.
