my relos informed me lastnight (and i was in disbelief for awhile) that there is a chatta rukun which they get taught in pakistan… Jihad
i understand that Jihad is quite a significant part of Islam.. but why is it being associated as the 6th rukun?? isnt this wrong?
Im not sure if its taught in schools or not. As far as I remember, the Olevel and Marticulation Islamiyat books mentioned 5 Pillars, but the teachers often spoke of Jihad being considered the 6th Pillar just so that the students would know.
yeah thats what my cousin was saying... but the wierd thing was, she actually thought that islam had 6 rukuns... thats the part i was quite astonished at
what is the significance of 'rukn' anyway? who is it traced to?
something Islam stands on? they define muslims?
Pillars of Islam, for those of you who do not know what rukn means...
no actually i thought the Kalma defined a Muslim? I was asking who brought the idea of "pillar of Islam" in? Is it a latter scholar or was it the Prophet. My own feeling is that its based on a hadith.. is that true? In which case, if its explicit then there isnt much of an argument for a 6th pillar.
^ hehe :) i think he knew it meant Pillars..
I am not sure and could be wrong, but I thought they were mentioned in one of the speeches given by the Holy Prophet (pbuh); someone should verify that though.
Sahih Bukhari hadith:
Volume 1, Book 2, Number 7:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle (pbuh) said: Islam is based on (the following) five (principles):
To testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and Muhammad is Allah's Apostle.
To offer the (compulsory congregational) prayers dutifully and perfectly.
To pay Zakat (i.e. obligatory charity) .
To perform Hajj. (i.e. Pilgrimage to Mecca)
To observe fast during the month of Ramadan.
There is no such idea of pillars of islam. There are other Aahdith which will give you another listing for the 5 pillars of Islam. This issue has being discussed couple of months back in great deal. Check back plz!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
There is no such idea of pillars of islam. There are other Aahdith which will give you another listing for the 5 pillars of Islam. This issue has being discussed couple of months back in great deal. Check back plz!
[/QUOTE]
achaa geee. Allah ko eek tasleem karnee , namaz parhne and ofcourse
khums, opps zakat ke adaegee mee kia TAKLEEF hee laugoo kooo.
5 pillars per debate karneee ka sawal hee pedaa naheee hutaaa.
take care
There are 5 pillars indeed. However, I remember one hadees, where the Prophet SAW is known to have said that "IF" there were to be a 6th pillar, it would have been jihad. This was just to highlight the importance of jihad, and not to actually include it in the list. Its likely that groups have misrepresented this hadees to suit their needs. I may be wrong though.
Rahman ziyada itranay ki zaroorat nahin hay, phaly research karo, phir baat karo. Read the following hadith; **This hadith shows you Khums is the fifth Rukan. **. so this issue is debatable. atleast.
**Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 2: **
I used to sit with Ibn 'Abbas and he made me sit on his sitting place. He requested me to stay with him in order that he might give me a share from his property. So I stayed with him for two months. Once he told (me) that when the delegation of the tribe of 'Abdul Qais came to the Prophet, the Prophet asked them, “Who are the people (i.e. you)? (Or) who are the delegate?” They replied, “We are from the tribe of Rabi’a.” Then the Prophet said to them, “Welcome! O people (or O delegation of 'Abdul Qais)! Neither will you have disgrace nor will you regret.”
They said, “O Allah’s Apostle! We cannot come to you except in the sacred month and there is the infidel tribe of Mudar intervening between you and us. So please order us to do something good (religious deeds) so that we may inform our people whom we have left behind (at home), and that we may enter Paradise (by acting on them).”
Then they asked about drinks (what is legal and what is illegal). The Prophet ordered them to do four things and forbade them from four things. He ordered them to believe in Allah Alone and asked them, “Do you know what is meant by believing in Allah Alone?” They replied, “Allah and His Apostle know better.” Thereupon the Prophet said, "It means:
To testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle.
To offer prayers perfectly
To pay the Zakat (obligatory charity)
To observe fast during the month of Ramadan.
**5. And to pay Al-Khumus (one fifth of the booty to be given in Allah’s Cause). **
Then he forbade them four things, namely, Hantam, Dubba,’ Naqir Ann Muzaffat or Muqaiyar; (These were the names of pots in which Alcoholic drinks were prepared) (The Prophet mentioned the container of wine and he meant the wine itself). The Prophet further said (to them): “Memorize them (these instructions) and convey them to the people whom you have left behind.” Narrated Abu Jamra:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/002.sbt.html
**This Hadith was also quoted by Ibn Sadiq in thread Pillars of Islam couple of months before. **
thanks Akif :)
what my cousins were saying was that in Islamiyat classes in pak, they are taught that there are 6 rukuns.. saying all are equal. It may be true, i dont know... but shouldnt that be unverisally known by all muslims?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
thanks Akif :)
what my cousins were saying was that in Islamiyat classes in pak, they are taught that there are 6 rukuns.. saying all are equal. It may be true, i dont know... but shouldnt that be unverisally known by all muslims?
[/QUOTE]
there is some small difference in the pillars, between the different sects of Islam
^ interesting... is there a difference between people who are followers of Al-Hadiths and wahibi's?
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by sadzzz: *
^ interesting... is there a difference between people who are followers of Al-Hadiths and wahibi's?
[/QUOTE]
No fundamental difference. The only difference is understanding and importance. Some people mix-up *(1) beliefs and (2) practices**, these two things are different. 2ndly there are many other aAhadith in which different articles and/or acts mentioned and counted with some number count. That number count can be 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7. Even more and on same issue in some other aAadith the count and articles and/or acts are different.
In this case, this situation makes the memory of the narrator and validity of the hadith questionable, even if you find the chain of these Aahadith 100% correct.
That is why not sticking to any hadith some Sunni Ullema tried to clarify this thing and made separate list of Muaamlaat, Akhalaaqiat, and Ibaadaat and some others have made different classifications like Iman e Mufasal and Iman e Mujamal some other group of Ullema gave the other explanation; by thinking the other way i.e making 2 categories (1) Beliefs and (2) Practices made Usool e Deen (Roots of Deen) and Froo e Deen (Branches of Deen), however they have different listings of Usool e Deen and Froo e Deen depending on the importance they give to a particular Article of faith or a particular act.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
thanks Akif :)
what my cousins were saying was that in Islamiyat classes in pak, they are taught that there are 6 rukuns.. saying all are equal. It may be true, i dont know... but shouldnt that be unverisally known by all muslims?
[/QUOTE]
sadzzz can you check with your cousins whether its being taught in Islamiat textbooks in conventional schools, or in madrassas? I think it might be the latter, because the current government has been altering Pakistan studies and Islamiat textbooks to a lighter version, if anything.
As for them being equal, that cant be possible, because clearly, kalima and namaz have more importance than others. eg, theres no recourse for missing a namaz, but theres a recourse for missing a fast. etc etc
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by inuit: *
Rahman ziyada itranay ki zaroorat nahin hay, phaly research karo, phir baat karo. Read the following hadith; **This hadith shows you Khums is the fifth Rukan. *.
[/QUOTE]
Probably because Hajj had not yet been made obligatory...