'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue...)

‘Chappell is more effective than Woolmer’

February 25, 2006

It is difficult to compare the roles of Indian coach Greg Chappell and his Pakistani counterpart Bob Woolmer during the recently concluded series. Pakistan won the Test series and India won the one-day international series.

To me, it was Rahul Dravid who inspired the revival of Indian cricket on the tour while Inzamam-ul-Haq and his men were simply not up to mark in the one-day arena. But what was obvious was that the Indian team was more innovative and willing to gamble and experiment, be it batting reshuffling or bowling changes, rather than Pakistan who played stereo-type cricket and were shy of trying something different.

I believe the biggest advantage the Indians had with Chappell was the former Australian captain’s ability of being an excellent reader and analyser of the game as compared to Woolmer who may be an experienced or seasoned campaigner but lacked the hardcore experience of match pressures or tensions.

Chappell, himself one of the greatest batsmen, had the vision and understanding that helped Dravid to finetune the game plans or team strategies against a certain player during the course of play. Needless to say that match strategies are jointly prepared by the captain and the coach considering the strength of the opponent and the conditions in which the match is being played.

I also think that Chappell was more effective in the one-day series because his dressing room communication with the players improved after Sourav Ganguly returned home following the Test series.

The animated discussion prior to the start of the first Test between Chappell, Dravid and Ganguly was a perfect example of the lack of communication between the trio and also reflected the dressing room mood.

I have all the reasons to believe that Ganguly’s conduct in the dressing room would have been exemplary but the bottomline is that if the coach is uncomfortable with the presence of a certain player, particularly with the stature of Ganguly, it affects his input and consequently his output.

When we talk about India’s performance in one-day cricket, naturally fielding has to take precedence over everything and it would be fair to say that the credit for that transformation has to go to Chappell.

Fielding is basically improved by the individual himself but the drills and exercises that are required to enhance and improve the performance, have to come from the coach and I think Chappell did wonderfully well in that area.

From my personal experience, I can say with conviction that Woolmer organises excellent team meetings and takes feedback from every player. He gives a patient hearing to each player and tries everything within his means to bail the player out of the crisis.

But at the same time I also believe language is the biggest barrier between Woolmer and the Pakistan players which is certainly not the case with the Indian team.

Even though cricket has a simple and universal language, fact of the matter is that the players and Woolmer cannot prolong the cricket debate or discuss. Our boys fall short of expressions and fail to fully express their problems and feelings that makes Woolmer’s task even tougher. In a brain-storming session, you need to speak and understand the same language!

Woolmer has introduced technology in Pakistan cricket but how far it has been successful, I think only the current players can answer better. But the practical input of Javed Miandad during his tenure was superb. I mean, Miandad was spending no less than three to four hours in nets just throwing balls to the batsmen.

Inzamam-ul-Haq and Mohamamd Yousuf still appreciate Miandad for helping them overcome the bad patch in New Zealand and in the home series against England in 2001.

However, the main difference Woolmer has created in the team is that he, along with Inzamam, has made the boys mentally tougher. There is more self belief in the boys, that comes naturally with success.

But unfortunately, Woolmer has not truly justified the designation of a coach as we still see Salman Butt being caught in the arc behind the wickets while flashing and Shoaib Malik being caught at short-mid-wicket and short-extra-cover.

Mohammad Yousuf’s running has not improved either. As I said earlier, these boys have caught wrong habits at a very early stage of their careers and we all know bad habits take ages to go. Unfortunately, sportsmen have a limited time.

After the team’s poor fielding in the one-day series, the Pakistan administration wants a fielding coach. I think it’s a joke because it’s up to the individual himself to improve his fielding. If Jonty Rhodes is being targeted, why not collect his fielding videos and circulate the copies to all the players so that they see, learn and improve.

Furthermore, there is talk of a bowling and batting coach for the senior squad. I see this as another mind-boggling decision because at this level, you do not need any coaching. Yes, these can be an integral component in the National Cricket Academy, if the PCB decides to make it operational.

And if batting and bowling coaches are required, why not a wicketkeeping coach or openers’ coach? Too many cooks spoil the broth. That’s what we did in 2003 World Cup and lets hope we do not make the same mistake again.

I also believe that two strong cricketing personalities cannot run the team. We had some problems when Aamir Sohail and Javed Miandad were at the helms of affair or when Miandad and Wasim Akram were together or even when Miandad and Inzamam-ul-Haq were there.

What importance the Australians give to their junior cricket can be judged from the fact that a few years back they had Allan Border as their Under-19 coach while Rodney Marsh is considered as the pioneer of Australian Cricket Academy whose, at least, nine cricketers are part of the present squad.

The job of the coach is thankless. The team wins, captains get the credit and when the team loses, the coaches get the stick. It may be because that nowadays, the coaches, at least in the subcontinent, speak more than the captains and draw almost as much salary as the senior most player, if not more.

Therefore, in my books the coaches pay the price for the publicity, exposure and importance rather than the team’s failure because that’s the responsibility of the person leading the team in the field instead of the one sitting in the dressing room.

Rediff

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue...)

So Moin's former team-mate is now just another "boy" with a bad habit.

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue

This article does have at least a couple good points (or obvious ones, from the way one looks at it):

  • What was obvious was that the Indian team was more innovative and willing to gamble and experiment, be it batting reshuffling or bowling changes, rather than Pakistan who played stereo-type cricket and were shy of trying something different.

  • Comments on Ganguly are also backed up with proof.

  • The biggest controversy I personally noticed is the language barrier that Moin indicated, between "The Bob" (As Inzamam hilariously said during a past post-match ceremony) Woolmer and the players. Although could be the case, I don't think it makes that much of a difference, between what Bob advices them to do, and their ability of grasping and understanding the required concepts. Most of them do interpret and decipher the structure and the meaning of the original message quite strongly, but, on the other hand, fail to express their feelings and emotions in a more appropriate and concise manner. Moin rectified the situation by further mentioning "Too many cooks spoil the broth. That's what we did in 2003 World Cup and lets hope we do not make the same mistake again", but in this case, I am taking that Moin himself wants Woolmer removed from the coaching position on the basis of numerous failed opportunities with our top/middle order, as well as in the bowling and fielding departments.

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue

everyone's "boy" for him cause he got kicked out of the time:D

Re: ‘Chappell is more effective than Woolmer’ (Moin’s controversial comments continue

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/dmag/dmag16.htm

**Wipe off the illusions

****By Zaheer Abbas

**Edited

Before moving on to the technical issues involved, let’s first have a look at the issue from a slightly different angle. Pakistani cricketers, both former and current, have a **genetic **tendency to throw in the towel the moment things start going against them. When the going is smooth, they can destroy the best, but when faced by tough times, they struggle. It is not that they stop trying; they do in all sincerity, but they stop believing in themselves.

Edited

Woolmer has also been under pressure for having chopped and changed the team and the batting order for apparently no good reason, and, perhaps more importantly, to no good effect. The latter part is more important because anything that succeeds cannot be argued with.

I wish to give Woolmer the benefit of doubt. Perhaps he had the World Cup in mind and was trying out different options before the big event. But despite his good intentions, one may still go on arguing about the logic of continuing with openers who are less than trustworthy, and will surely be troubled during the team’s future assignments in England and South Africa, in addition to the World Cup itself which will be held in the West Indies.


I think Pakistan is an one-dimensional team, they look great when winning and pathetic when they collapse.

They depend only on Shoaib chucker to deliver.

We played well in the Test except for that one session in Karachi.

The exit of Ganguly appreciably helped the sentiments in the dressing room.

Few points worth discussing by chacha-abbas.

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue...)

at various points I don't agree with Moin Khans article for 1); he mentioned that India was willing to experiment and being innovative, well when you have a set 11 then you dont need to experiment, On the other hand india does not have a set 11, thats why they are doing the experiment sending Dhoni / Pathan up ...etc, having fully fit Shewag, Tendulkar, Dravid, Kaif, Yuvraj at top order and the rest I dont see, there will be any experiments.

Pakistan played badly Yes! their fielding was bad yes! bowling didnt work well with exception of M. Asif bowling. I know they lost to arch-rivals but if you see they only lost 4 games, and if they learn from their mistakes and make proper adjustments then its all worth it.

Moin also make comparison of Chappell cricket carrier with Bob's experience which makes no sense to me, as well know that its not necessary that who was good in the field is good off the field.

Every coach has different set of ideas and its not a good way to compare unless they have coached the same teams.

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue...)

Yes, only 4 out of 5. Wonder what is the fuss about.

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue...)

^^Egg-zactly :p

Re: ‘Chappell is more effective than Woolmer’ (Moin’s controversial comments continue…)

^ Sorry ? :silly:

:cb:

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue

A good read, hochi_minh. Zaheer Abaas also criticizes Woolmer, as mentioned below:

  • "This is a mental thing. It was expected that under a professionally qualified coach, the lads would undergo the required transformation, and there were some signs of that happening in the last few months, but the team certainly failed when it came to taking the litmus test."

  • "Woolmer has also been under pressure for having chopped and changed the team and the batting order for apparently no good reason, and, perhaps more importantly, to no good effect. The latter part is more important because anything that succeeds cannot be argued with."

  • "Playing both Kamran Akmal and Shoaib Malik in the top order, to my eyes, is a huge gamble. When they come off together with, say, Salman Butt or Imran Farhat, it all looks very well, but when they fall, they fall in a heap, which leaves a huge amount of workload for the middle order, which, in turn, struggles because by the time they get on to the field, the opposition greets them with their tails right up. In this backdrop, when the Inzamam-Yusuf-Yunus trio fails to dictate terms, which is only natural, the burden then shifts down to the lower middle order where Abdul Razzaq and Shahid Afridi, despite all their potential to hit it big, remain, at best, a 50-50 prospect."

Infact, most of the points he made in the article, including the one highlighted by hochi_minh, are very much true. But then again, it is easier to pass judgments after the event, as oppose to hindsight predictions and measurements.


Well, yes, that's the whole point. It is one thing to hold a thin rope of hopes and dreams whilst wishing that somehow, after spraying a magical glucose into their systems, maybe our team will get their heads and minds back together, and a completely different issue to actually and practically assemble it in the real-world. But as Moin has mentioned in his article, old habits (such as Yousuf's running between the wickets, which was also evident during the English series) are hard to drop-by. I do believe Moin hit a nail on the head by indicating that these activities are picked up very shortly and at a very young stage, and in such, also pose almost impractical to amend or to switch it to a remedy, and it is at that point in time where coaches and trainers come into the scenery and offer their professional expertise to remove any such obstacles that might become permanent hindrance, not only for the players' themselves, but also for their team later down the road, all in which, for one reason or another, we have failed to see thus far. Salman Butt is usual in his style (or lack thereof), Shoaib Malik seems to be offering nafals when the bouncer is bowled at him (and that too with a straight bat - in the air), and Yousuf has failed to reconcile the differences that he has held with himself for quite some time, related to his running. All in all, even though I do not agree with Moin (or Zaheer Abbas) regarding the possible elimination of the captain and the coach, the situation, however, is in deep shambles, which can only be corrected if the language barrier (if such is the problem) is properly resolved upon, and/or players take their own measurements after looking at the tapes. There is only so much that the coach can do; the rest is up to the mind of an individual as to how he has to perform in the cricketing field.

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue...)

woolmer no doubt is a great coach but he cant help the team greatly coz they dont understand him,i dont understand y the pcb r so thick headed they shud've employed a translator along with him

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue...)

I don't really know why we have Woolmer as a coach and Inzi as a captain, Yousef as a batsmen and rest of the team playing for us. After all they have committed the cardinal sin of losing one series in the last year. Let's forget the fluke victories against England in both the tests and ODI's and the test series victory against India. All our focus should be on the ODI loss against India. We should sack everyone lock, stock and barrel.

Contrast our pathetic reaction to England's loss in Pakistan after winning the Ashes. There has been no call to sack the captain or the coach, instead they have focused on what went wrong.

Time for our armchair critics to grow up and contribute something positive instead of winging and trying to get their 15 minutes of fame. Losers.

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue...)

^ well said.

losing is the part of the game and must have courage to accept that we have been beaten, at the end of the day its only game not war.

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue...)

Moin needs to learn to make a point without direct accusations such as this. That said, Woolmer has been a big disappointment too, particularly his comments about how to get Indian batsmen out, AFTER India WON THE SERIES 4:1.

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue...)

Moin's artcile reflects his incoherent thoughts. There is no logical order to his arguments e.g. he gives credit to Chappel for the wondeful fielding display by the Indians (though their fielding was great even before Chappel came into picture, they just got a new player in the team viz. Raina who is also a great fielder), but says that the idea for a fielding coach for Pakistan is a joke "because it's up to the individual himself to improve his fielding".
Hello - Please give some thoughts to your words before you type them.

Re: ‘Chappell is more effective than Woolmer’ (Moin’s controversial comments continue

well…well…well…Here is the Post Of The YEAR. This thread should have stopped here. Nobody can add anything to it anymore. It’s just a perfect statemtent and very true picture and polite of us. Bravo Ehsan:k:

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue...)

may be we should hire another coach for one day matches and keep Woolmer for test series........j/k Ehsan Bhai. That post was on the money Ehsan Bhaiyya. Sometimes us pakis can be sore losers.....especially when it comes to our arch rivas.

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue...)

Well said Ehsan bhai. :) Couldnt have put it better.

Moin should stick to commenting during lunch breaks with Asif Iqbal

Re: 'Chappell is more effective than Woolmer' (Moin's controversial comments continue...)

Dear Dhobi bhai,
Once again, you came up with an excellent thread. I really like the way you search for interesting Cricketing news and then share with us. Thanks for doing that and keep it up..
Now, let's come to Moin's article. I think comparing Greg Chappell to Bob Woolmer is comparing bananas to oranges. Woolmer hasn't played any international cricket if any, compared that to Chappell who has played good Cricket in the ground as well.

Moin Khan is picturing Bob Woolmer bad as he doesn't communicate in the same language as our Pak players do. I think Moin Khan forgot that Pak also had foreign coach named "Richard Pybus", the biggest flop coach ever and where was Moin Khan @ that time..? Yea, you guessed it right, he was playing for Pak team under Pybus. Wasn't he? Correct me if I am wrong.

Woolmer has done brilliantly well for Pakistan and Grep Chappell is doing that as well for India. ONe thing that no body has touched so far is that Woolmer has been with Pak team for almost 2 years unlike Chappell who's been with India for a mere 4 months. Comparitively, Woolmer has turned the Pak team around from 2004 to now and I am sure WC 07 is under his eyes as well. Indian team bounced back very well under Chappell but just before October 05, they were in shambles every where. So in my view, both coaches are doing a good job with their respective teams.

If Moin Khan thinks that Woolmer hasn't really designated himself as a good coach, he needs to take another look. First of all, saying that Salman Butt got out in similar fashion in the last 3 games he played doesn't justify that. He(MOin Khan), never mentioned that it was under Woolmer that we found Salman Butt and he's been a great asset to Pak team. He forgot that Shahid Afridi has been doing brilliantly under Woolmer as compared to past coaches and top of that, Woolmer has got Pakistan to become a fighting unit. NO doubt, fielding was really bad during the one day series but it's the habit of our old players to take their guns out at once rather than looking optimistically for the future.

I really liked the way Woolmer put the defeat of 4-1 of India to Pak as the best thing to come before the World Cup 07. We rather have it now than have it next March. It must have given a look to Woolmer for the shortcomings of Pak team and how to get rid of them just before the WC 07.

I think the option of having a fielding coach and bowling coach is always good as compared to "too many cooks spoil the broth." I would support it only if they can be utilized in combination with the junior teams as well. Thus when the players come to play at the international level, they would be already loaded with ammunition and they can deliver just like Aus team members.

I think fiellding coach and bowling coach really should be employed with both the junior team and the senior team but they shouldn't be visiting with Pak team when they go overseas. Instead they should stay with the junior teams in the net so they can get them ready for international arena. But I am assured that having the bowling and fielding coach can help, it can't hurt.

I am very optimistic rather than pessimistic like our former players who have bombarded @ the Pak team and the coach after a loss of ODI series to India. That's the way it has been in Pakistan and we got to change that and see more in a positive manner rather than just bashing at our team who has provided us with brilliant Cricketing victories.

Sincerely
Umer

Re: ‘Chappell is more effective than Woolmer’ (Moin’s controversial comments continue…)

^^ :dhimpak: :jhanda: LOL,…i am wid umer on dis one,.we shudn’t b pessimistic about this,.pakistan is our team and we have gta support the boys becos if we don’t,.who is? get me?
we all know dat dey played great against england so why can’t we appreciate dem?at the end of the day,.not evry team is perfect,…even australia got beaten in the ashes…we have just got 2 focus on the WC,…insha allah,.we will win and bob has been a great coach,…also,..y is it that when dey win,..we get so excited and can’t stop praising dem but now dat dey have lost,.sum people can’t stop criticising? Come on u guys,…cheer up,.it cud b worse,..we cud have been defeated in the test series too,…and imagine we had lost against england too,…Pakistan Zindabad