changes in the hudood ordinance

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

^ and how does verse 47:4 prohibit slavery????

whats the worse compliment you ever got?
42

Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

Arabs used to enslave the men prisoners of war and the women were made concubines. The Quran closed the doors to slavery forever by this command
(47:4). (People’s opposition has transgressed to the extent that a clash seems imminent.) Therefore when you face them in the battlefield, you too should kill them. And when their strength is broken and you have fully subdued them, the remaining should be taken into your custody as prisoners of war (8:67). Then (as the circumstances demand) set them free either as an act of grace4 or after taking ransom (monetory reward or by exchange of your own prisoners ~ 38:39), till all possibilities of waging war are eliminated (and peace and order returns). (It is for this purpose that you are permitted to raise arms.)

Also remember that if Allah had so willed, He could have punished these opponents in other ways. However He desires that an open clash like this would clearly show how much capability you have acquired to fight against the enemy and to survive. As for those who have laid down their lives for the establishment of the Divine Order, rest assured that their deeds will not go to waste. (Life is continuous and does not finish with physical death.)

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

sorry mughal cannot read the text of the Hadith. Can you point out the word used in roman arabic. If bukhari included it in Zina category than it was his choice like of ulemas today but if the narrator used the word "zina bil jabbar", than off course the issue is different. I will probably have to correct myself in that case.

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44

Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

You can see the word used is not Zina bil Jabbar (rape was not called zina bil jabbar then) but if a women is forced to do zina.

This grouping under zina may be bukhari's choice and i do not care that how he groups a certain Hadith, but i have got interested in one thing which is that Hadd was enforced by Hazrat Omar and that leads to some insight into the issue. you may be right that hadd has to be enforced in this case.

well the Hadith is the same as you can see the sanad, sorry for not writing it out particularly but rawi is the same.

i will, however i still need your help, please underline or write in roman urdu the word used for rape. Is it "zina" or "zina bil jabbar" or "forced to do zina"

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

you are just an ignorant guy who is trying to be smart.

46

Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

I agree when lay man try to argue with the experts. l0l

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

Thanx Majzoob and Khanbabx for your compliments.

I really appreciate your layman concerns for me

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

chup bay ignorant man :D
and dont u dare go up against intellectual giant and religious auhtorities ever again. you should change your name from MKF to ignorant man..tobah tobah..arguing with holy men and sages. qurb e qiyamat ki nishaniyaan hain mian :)

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

Nicely put, as Prophet s,a.w said something to the affect ,before qiyamat ignorant will take aver and people will criticize the scholars.

50

Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

Ji sir ji, aap durast kehtay hain.

51

Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

Fraudia why do you suggest as my name, i can request again to moderator for second change of Nick.

Anyway i am waiting for mughal to comeup with further answers to my queries.

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

Anyway Mughal, an observation

In the second Hadith neither the word used in Zina is used neither Hudd and Rajam is the punishment which is not prescribed in Quranic Hudoods. What do you say about it. This Hadith does not prove the point of including rape in anyway for being part of Hudood.

The first one is also a single example of use of Hudd in rape cases, that too after Death of Prophet. Still the word zina bil jabbar is found no where. Also i have another question from the proponets like Mr Taqi Usmani. Was rape so non existent in those times. I mean it is hard to believe that only two incidents happened in those times which are quoted in Hadith books. May be these Hadith narrators have discarded all incidents which quoted rape as something different from zina as it struck against their understanding of the crime? Why Hadith books are silent on any direct order from prophet on this issue.

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

Mughal where are you? Have you *acquiesced?
*