changes in the hudood ordinance

Society Religion & Philosophy
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following is an excellent short review by justice (r) mufti taqi uthmani…

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

Thanks for that post.

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

lol...

It's true, if you tell a lie often enough and loud enough, it becomes truth...

So, there never was a clause of four witnesses, instead DNA, medical and chemical analysis was what was used in rape cases...

Also, there has never been a single incident in which a woman was even accused of willfully committing fornication...Even if she failed to produce even circumstantial evidence...

Islamic republic? Sure...

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

http://sunnilink.wordpress.com/

Thats Mufti Taqis interview on same topic.

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

This mufti has made interest islamized! His meezan bank charges more amount for car lease rental than many other interest dealing banks! Yet they call it Islamic banking!

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

^ do they charge interest????

from what i know and read of mufti taqi uthmani, he never said interest is legal....

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

Saying is a different thing! And acting upon is another! Ask for car rental quotes from different banks including his Meezan Bank! And you will know the reality!

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

Totally bogus debatelet me put the record straightHere is the ayat he has quoted for rape in Quran, quoting out of context to prove his point.024.033 وَلْيَسْتَعْفِفِ الَّذِينَ لا يَجِدُونَ نِكَاحًا حَتَّى يُغْنِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ وَالَّذِينَ يَبْتَغُونَ الْكِتَابَ مِمَّا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ فَكَاتِبُوهُمْ إِنْ عَلِمْتُمْ فِيهِمْ خَيْرًا وَآتُوهُمْ مِنْ مَالِ اللَّهِ الَّذِي آتَاكُمْ وَلا تُكْرِهُوا فَتَيَاتِكُمْ عَلَى الْبِغَاءِ إِنْ أَرَدْنَ تَحَصُّنًا لِتَبْتَغُوا عَرَضَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَمَنْ يُكْرِهُّنَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ مِنْ بَعْدِ إِكْرَاهِهِنَّ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ024.033 Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),Al-Qur'an, 024.033 (An-Noor [The Light])Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910where has Quran talked about rape. it is about forced prostitution. and it exonerates the women, quite naturally.Then he quotes two events of prophet's time and uses the word zina for rape, however does not quote the arabic text unlike he quoted for proving his case of Hadd Ayats. Why?because the arabic text does not use the word zina for rape but use the word overpowering. Why cannot Quran and Hadith use the word zina for rape. because it was never meant to mean rape, it wa smeant for consensual sex. rape is a crime of zulm or overpowering. fitnah. No where i am in favour of not punishing rapist to death, by all means he deserves so. but do not include it in hudd. for hudd you need four wintess nothing less.

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

^ so if tomorrow a woman comes and says Mr. MKF raped me, an Islamic Government shud take her word for it and kill u then and there????

and the verse is not quoted out of context, the mufti has used the same words as the translation that u posted, that if the women r forced into the wrong act, then there is no punishment for them....

or do u disagree with the mufti and think that women who get raped shud be punished????

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

[gv]4763829972393791162[/gv]

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

Did i say what you intend to convey?

I think you are mistaken my brother. please read my post on hudood ordinance.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=238117

In a nut shell i mean to say that do not punish the people wo commit adultery without 4 witness but if you include rape into hudd we have to find 4 witness which will never be there so rapsit will go free. i have posted my link just to analyze and show that exactly this is the reason Quran has not included rape in Hudd. Now if you say zana includes rape and adultery by adding pre-fix bil jabbar & bil raza. this was never understood like this at the prophet’s time and the two incidents quoted by our learned scholar are simply wrong guidance to readers. i have shown how he has avoided giving the arabic text here and gave the text the other place.

If you still wanna believe him your choice. i mean i cannot force anyone. just giving my view point. why do you get sentimental?

Please refrain from using examples like you have quoted above, i do not want to go into indecency which you seem habitual of!!!

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

I don't know brother about it being a lie.

And don't get me wrong, I respect Taqi Sahab, he might as well be right that the change in the legilation made by the current regime in Pak. is against the Shariah.

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

after the changes in the law, now for a rape case, instead of 4 witnesses, u need to have 2 witnesses....

i think if u can get 2, u can get 4 as well....

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

read again he is saying somthing else, DNA testing was not available in 1980 :p

[quote]

Also, there has never been a single incident in which a woman was even accused of willfully committing fornication...Even if she failed to produce even circumstantial evidence...

Islamic republic? Sure...
[/quote]

Again your comprehension is getting quite rusty. He is talking just for himself.

In short, What he is saying (actually not saying is) that The law (hudood ord) had loopholes in it. Evil People were free to manipulate it. He ( Justice sahab) always tried to do justice.

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

It is because now the rape is being handled as a tazir issue where not only witness but DNA test and other evidence collecting mechanisms can be used. The problem of including rape in Hudood was that in hudd there have to be 4 adult male witness who have seen the actual crime which are naturally difficult to find even in adultery and rape as well.

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

If you read this mufti's reply clearly, he is a big fraud. i doubt that i will ever respect him after i have seen a delibrate attempt by him to prove his point by avoiding arabic script whereas writing rape in translation (zina was not the arabic word neither zana bil jabbar)

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

hahaha..yeah yeah..mufti taqi usmani,who is the most sincere and most well known alim of pakistan,is a fraud.. yeah yeah..haha…thts enough for me to tell lot abt u …my dear,mufti taqi is not any local small size madrassah mullah,he is the ocean of knowledge and u r telling us he is blah blah…

please people come to moderation…

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

I dunno much about Mufti Usmani, whether he is good, bad or ugly, but he does raise some points.

Now u shud either prove him wrong by logic/arguments or agree with him.

It were previoulsy asking mods to let people discuss whatever and put forth arguments and now u r resorting to personal attacks.

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

so Guy 1 & Iconoclast, if he is such a big Alim than tell him to give some convincing arguments. Why do not you reply to my observations given above. Why such an unlearned person like me should sense something fishy fishy in his arguments.

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Re: changes in the hudood ordinance

MKF, Mufti Taqi Uthmani is very well respected by the Ulema from all walks of life from all over the world. You should read his books and listen to his lectures before you criticize.

May Allah give reward him for everything he has done.