change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Pashtun population in Punjab has increased manifolds during the past decade, same can be said of Urdu speaking one (after the operations in 90's many moved there). The thing is that one should be tolerant of others, when you despise others due to their ethnicities problems arise. Generally other ethnicities hate Punjabis as they are in majority (unfortunately) and nothing can be done about that.

On a side note we have had problems of Urdu Speaking with Punjabis (with slogans of Punjabi Kutto Sindh say nikkal jao in Hyderabad, I believe in 90's), and then with Sindhis and Pashtun. The ghettoisation in Karachi has not helped either. One of my friends studied in NED University, he is a Kashmiri and according to him he came to know of all his ethnicity when he studied there.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

@Jolie, not only major cities but also towns of rural areas have pashtun population.
If i call Gujranwala city a city of Kashmiri people, it wont be wrong. Not only urban part of gujranwals district is mainly a Kashmiri population, rural part of district also has Kashmiris. And they speak both pothuhari and pujabi equally.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Please enough of this patronisation. Maybe Muhajirs also need to think why they are not liked/welcomed anywhere in Sindh apart from (Karachi and Hyderabad) despite living in the province since the very first day of Pakistan's creation. Why Muhajirs don't have the geographical mobility in Sindh which all groups enjoy in Punjab? How deep the prejudice and mistrust behind the 'marsoo marsoo par Sindh na dessoon' slogans go? Do you see now?

Do you know why Punjabis are hated? I'll give you an example. When a terrorist organisation like MQM goes down for burning 250 factory people alive. MQM leader at 2am comes out and abuses the entire Punjabi race and accuses Punjabis for conspiring against Muhajirs by just going after the terrorist elements in MQM, and then agreeing with toxic racist sermon in unison.

The other example, Sindhi PPP feudal enjoyed power in federal government on five occasion and they did jack sheet for Sindh but somehow Punjabis are forever to be blamed for all their miseries and backwardness. Sindhi Waderas lost 2013 election after five years of sheer incompetence at highest offices and they go back to Sindh and say we the poor Sindhi lost because Punjabis conspired against us. The crowd once again says yes to such racist BS. So yes, there is general racism and 'hatred' against Punjabis because xenophobia sells in Sindh and Balochistan. The politicians from other provinces rather blame the evil 'outsiders' Punjabis than admit how they have screwed up their own people. It is not because of Punjabis that interior Sindh and Balochistan don't have schools and hospitals or that tribals don't allow their women to vote.

Politicians plays ethnic politics and their blind followers follow that. They create victim complexes in their people so they always need a saviour to protect them and represent them.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

In Punjab or Lahore, the walls were not littered with *'Sindhi Muhajir bhai bhai, yeh Dhoti or N​iswar kaha se aa yi' *slogans or any type of racists slogans. Racist divided work where people are prone to intolerance and come with inherited inferiority complex and insecurities.

Why Saraiki vs Punjabis (a politically pushed divide) doesn't result in any violent protest, target killing or hostile stand offs in Punjab?

If Punjabis were insecure, their province would not be this diverse and enjoy the highest level of ethnic harmony. There are no insecurities and intolerance to be exploited by political parties whose sole basis of survival is to play ethnic politics in other parts of Pakistan.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

People in Punjab (whether they are Punjabis or people from different provinces or ethnicities) enjoy the highest rate of geographical mobility. People are always moving around. The Kashmiri families settled in Gunjranwala would probably move to Islamabad, Pindi, Lahore, Sialkot or Faisalabad in a generation’s time. Most affluent Saraikies are well settled in Northern Punjab. Similarly, Pashtuns who come to Punjab quietly settle in little towns and districts bordering KPK without anyone crying blue murder over Pashtunisation. People in Punjab go where ever they find opportunities or wherever they can create their own opportunities, and that’s what makes province a great place to live.

I hope KPK catches on as some of the Northern areas are absolutely beautiful - breathtakingly beautiful (and cool climate). I’m pretty certain many Punjabis would love to take a break from hustle bustle of urban cities, invest in KPK and buy homes in lush countrysides and hills there. We need more and more cross province mixing to achieve national cohesion and tolerance and acceptance.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

^ very good. Sindhi wadera , baloch sardar , pathan molvis and karachi's MQM are respnosible for all what is going on in the respective areas. All is well at punjab's end.

You win I loose.

As you mention that there is great deal of hatred among muhajirs only then why only punjabis are being killed for the sake of being punjabis. Mohajirs are settled in hyderabad , sukkar , jacob abad . Just look at the seats won by them in sindh.

End of story is ppl of different ethnicities dont trust each other hence there is sheer hatered present. Punjab being a bigger province taking major share and many times unjustly as well. ( I am sure there will be lot of shouting on this statement ) . Though this share goes to certain group of punjab but unfortunately common punjabi got targeted as well. This one also due to their loud nature ( very normal for them but not noraml for many . They feel being degraded. specially the lahoris . I hope I can describe what I mean )

Even in sindh ppl dont hate mohajirs more than Punjabis . This marsoon marsoon sindh na desoon is related to sepereation of khi not against mohajirs.

I believe dividing punjab into 3 will help but again who is gonna do it. the hihger authorities dont want to miss chance to rule country based on punjab majority. They even made one unit to counter bangladesh's majority. Magar kuch sabaq nahi seekha.

It is not a good news for a neutral person to have ethnic bias in already very intolerant society like ours. Allah kareem

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

^ Okay you like Karachi aunties of Life and Relationship forum keep mentioning the loudness of Punjabis. Okay. Fine. I'm not bothered to take any offence in that. Maybe Punjabis are Italians of Pakistan, we are loud and proud love using our hands to express ourselves. we can easily break into fight on a dinner table.* Hun ki kariyey? Kithey jaa eeye?

I support PTI and my eyes and all wishes are with KPK. There are plenty of Punjabi hating members here who actually come together and gang up to defend oh so Punjabi party which represent everything that's wrong with Punjabi oligarchy. I'm definitely not one of them. If I was, I would not be a staunch opponent and stubborn campaigner of *rig Punjab rule Pakistan electoral system. Some people only know how to make racists statement and attack entire ethnicity but continently shy away from taking a practical stance. Let them show distrust and disdain for everyone - hopefully one day the sky will rip open and God will send ready made messiahs belonging to their respective ethnicities. In the meantime, I hope they don't fully crash and burn in their victim complexes.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Just like you are not happy with a lot of pashtun maintenaning their culture in Karachi, same would sindhis say about you muhajir capturing the land of sindh. I personally dont bother who lives there but sindhis do have same feelings for you that you have for pashtun of Karachi. You can see the blood in the eyes of baloch over punjabi's shop at gawadar but dont see yourself sitting on land of sindh getting most from sindh while sindhis suffering in rural areas blaming punjab.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

A big LOL. Which particular group demands Karachi as separate province? Which group will be majority and benefit the most if Karachi turns into a separate province? So why do the Sindhi nationalists don't want Karachi as a separate province, again? Why there is always a streak of violence and merciless killings in Sindh everytime MQM raises the separate province demand. Whereas Sindhis and Muhajirs talk about creating a Saraiki province in Punjab, but saraikies themselves forget about it the next day. Where is the sheer ethnic hatred against Punjabis in that case?

Of course I know Punjabis are hated more in Sindh than Muhajirs hence the* Sindhi Muhajir bahi bhai yeh dhoti Niswar kahan se aayi* propaganda. You think I was expecting better? Don't for a second assume that I underestimate the racism and xenophobia spewed by Sindhi nationalists. I have absolutely zero respect for whatever they stand for and their boy who cried wolf type victim complexes.

You are the one who is using such strong expressions such "sheer hatred" and rationalising it as long as it is against Punjabis. This whole sheer hatred between ethnicities, talk about Karachi. Sindh or Balochistan. If there were indeed sheer hatred between ethnicities, the ethnic situation in Punjab would've been worse than it is in Karachi. People of all different ethnicities would not be co-existing peacefully in same neighbourhoods in Punjab, and yes that includes Muhajirs as well: who have found more peace, security, prosperity and acceptance in Punjab than in Karachi/Sindh. A Muhajir family in Punjab is not just confined to certain localities within one city. The are and can move anywhere else in Punjab. Can you say that Muhajirs of Sindh can also live and prosper anywhere else in Sindh (apart from KHI and Hyderabad), and this phenomena broadly explains why rest of the Sindh apart from single City is so undeveloped, xenophobic and backward.

So don't generalise this "sheer ethnic hatred' claptrap on rest of the Pakistan. Vast majority of Pakistan are indeed tolerant and do not support and trust political parties and feudal lords who spew ethnic hatred. PTI despite being the target of 'only focusing on Punjab' propaganda by some of the Punjabi trolls is leading the LG polls in KPK. Clearly, the attempt to make Punjab look like a distractor and hindrance in KPK's progress didn't work.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

I must also point out how MQM leadership makes their supporters and sympathisers believe that Musharraf is only facing 'hardship' because he's a Muhajir! Their ethnically charged up supporters believe that, and what they don't understand that Musharraf could've met the fate of Zia ul Haq as well. He's one of the very few dictators in the world who not only walked out on his formed his own political party with the support of his Punjab based friends.

So much for playing politics on his ethnicity. The so called Punjabi army will go to any extent to save their ex COAS from being hanged. Doesn't matter if the COAS is Muhajir and his old foe is a Punjabi. They'll kick the bloody asses of ruling Punjabi elite if they to save their ex Chief. But people still fall for politicians' ethnic propaganda.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Nadeem Paracha who was following the discussion on this thread very closely decided to share his opinion on this sensitive topic of ethnic nationalism as well.

Smokers’ Corner: The other Punjab - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

                                                                 **[Smokers’ Corner: The other Punjab](http://www.dawn.com/news/1184953/smokers-corner-the-other-punjab)**

             [Nadeem F. Paracha](http://www.dawn.com/authors/774/nadeem-f-paracha)                  — Updated about 10 hours ago

            
                                                             [TABLE="class: media six-tenths palm--one-whole media--center media--uneven"]

Ever since Pakistan’s tumultuous birth in 1947, much has been said and written about the topic of ethnic nationalism(s) in the country. This has always been a thorny and controversial subject because elements advocating the importance of exhibiting nationalism based on the linguistic and cultural injunctions of an ethnic community have always been dealt with suspicion by the state of Pakistan.
If we keep aside the fact that more than 97 per cent of Pakistan’s population is Muslim, this same population is then not a homogenous lot. In fact, even within its religious homogeneity there are sectarian, sub-sectarian and intra-sectarian divisions, with some of the various groups rather antagonistic towards one another.
Pakistan is made up of various ethnic groups that have their own languages, historical trajectories, and cultural traditions. Picturing such a diversity as a threat (to the unity of the country), the state of Pakistan, right from the word go, has launched various projects to concoct ideas of a unified nationalism to overcome and neutralise identities based on ethnic moorings.
[HR][/HR] Punjabi nationalism over the years

[HR][/HR] Naturally, such projects have created tensions between the state and various ethno-nationalist groups who accuse the state of Pakistan of trying to whitewash their centuries-old ethnic heritages with (what these groups believe is) an ‘artificial ideology’ invented by the state.
What’s more, the antagonistic ethno-nationalist groups have for long maintained that the state enforces such an ideology to safeguard the political and economic interests of the ‘dominant ethnic communities’.
Till the late 1960s the so-called dominant ethnic groups were supposed to be the Punjabis and the Urdu-speakers (Mohajirs) who had a monopolistic influence on the workings of the armed forces, the bureaucracy and large economic enterprises (and thus politics).
In this scenario ethno-nationalism in Pakistan was thus mostly the vocation of non-Punjabi and non-Mohajir ethnic groups, mainly Bengali, Sindhi, Pakhtun and Baloch.
According to the narrative weaved by some prominent Sindhi and Baloch ethno-nationalists, after the separation of the Bengali-majority East Pakistan in 1971, the state began to gradually co-opt the Pakhtuns who then began to replace the Mohajirs as the other dominant ethnic elite (along with the Punjabis).
By the 1980s Pakhtun nationalists had lost considerable appeal among the Pakhtuns but the same decade saw the emergence of ‘Mohajir nationalism’.
Ethno-nationalists have continued to accuse the ‘Punjabi-dominated state’ of usurping the economic and political interests of the non-Punjabi communities, sometimes in the name of Pakistani nationalism and sometimes in the name of religion.
Academics studying the phenomenon of ethno-nationalism in Pakistan usually stick to tendencies such as Sindhi, Baloch and Pakhtun nationalisms (and, in the past, Bengali nationalism, and now even Mohajir nationalism).
Nevertheless, what gets missed in the more holistic study of the said issue is a nationalism that is actually associated with what is usually decried to be a hegemonic and elitist ethnic group: the Punjabi.
This is not due to there being not enough activism and literature available on ‘Punjabi nationalism’ as there is on other ethno-nationalist tendencies in the country.
The Punjabis have for so long been seen as the dominant ethnic group, very few scholars have actually got down to study curious occurrences such as Punjabi nationalism.
Also, compared to other ethno-nationalisms in Pakistan, Punjabi nationalism is a more recent phenomenon.
According to cultural historian, Alyssa Ayres (in her book, Speaking Like A State), Punjabi nationalism largely emerged in the 1980s. Part of it was a reaction to the emergence of the Saraiki language movement that looked to separate the Saraiki-speaking areas of the Punjab from the rest of the province.
Till the late 1960s, Saraiki was considered to be a dialect of Punjabi, but Saraiki nationalists disagree and treat their language as a separate linguistic entity.
Ayres suggests that many Punjabi intellectuals considered the Saraiki movement as ‘yet another attack on Punjabi.’ They bemoan the way Punjab as a whole has been lumped together as a hegemonic province. They complain that a Punjabi actually has to let go of his culture and adopt ‘alien languages’ (English and Urdu), if he wants to escape economic marginalisation.
Just as the purveyors of Sindhi, Baloch and Pakhtun nationalism of yore, ideologues and advocates of Punjabi nationalism too emerged from progressive backgrounds.
They did not attack the non-Punjabi ethnicities for denouncing Punjabis; instead, they turned in anger towards the elite sections made up of fellow Punjabis. They accused them of neglecting the Punjabi language and forgetting the Punjabi culture — first to appease the British, and then to the state-backed promoters of Urdu — just to maintain their personal influence and power.
Though literature in this context had begun to trickle out in the 1970s, it was the publication of three books between 1985 and 1996 that finally gave Punjabi nationalism its most cohesive literary shape.
The first was Hanif Ramey’s Punjab Ka Muqadma (The Case of Punjab). Ramay was a founding member of the PPP; and a leading ideologue behind the party’s populist concoction called ‘Islamic Socialism’ (late 1960s).
In his 1985 book, Ramay suggests that the Punjabis turned against the Bengalis to safeguard the interests of those who had imposed Urdu (‘a foreign language’) upon them (the Punjabis).
Ramay continues by claiming that had the Punjabis continued to respect and love their own language, they would have understood the sentiments of East Pakistan’s Bengalis, and would not have turned against them.
The book was promptly banned by the intransigent Zia regime.
The ban did not deter Syed Ahmed Ferani from authoring Punjabi Zaban Marre Gi Nahi (The Punjabi Language Will Not Die) in 1988. This is an even more radical expression of Punjabi nationalism. Here Ferani describes Urdu as ‘a man-eating language’ that made Punjabis kill fellow Punjabis and then people of other non-Urdu ethnic groups. This book too was banned.
The third major work in this context is a novel authored by Fakhar Zaman called Bewatna (Stateless) in 1995. Zaman, another former PPP man in Punjab, wrote an allegorical lament about how (he thought) the Punjabis (by adopting alien languages and cultures) have become aliens on their own soil. The novel, too, was banned.
Unlike certain more radical branches of non-Punjabi ethno-nationalisms, Punjabi nationalism (so far) has not been separatist and has remained largely a literary pursuit, only calling for the Punjabi language to be given its rightful place.
This nationalism’s scholars constantly evoke tales associated with various Punjabi Sufi saints and anti-colonial heroes to emphasise the point that the Punjabi culture was spiritual (instead of orthodox) and chivalrous (instead of hegemonic or exploitative).
In a landmark decision, the Lahore High Court (in 1996), overturned and lifted the ban on all three books.
Echoes of this nationalism can still be heard in the Punjab, though. In a TV talk show about three months ago, the current Defence Minister and a senior member of the ruling PMLN, Khawaja Asif (who hails from the Punjab city of Sialkot), lamented that all kinds of ‘alien cultures’ have been imposed in the Punjab.
He specifically mentioned the erosion of Punjab’s original culture and traditions that were being replaced by a culture imported by those (including fellow Punjabis) who have for long resided in Arab countries.
And though Khawaja Asif never called himself a Punjabi nationalist, his lament did bear the tone first set by Punjabi nationalists.
Published in Dawn, Sunday Magazine, May 31st, 2015

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Interesting article, thanks for sharing

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

That is true. As for that d word, another poster uses it without any problems all the time so I thought it was just slang.

As far as racism goes, yes ajazali is one when he drags in karachi in a thread that had nothing to do with it. As for you, you come in blasting like AP without critical analysis which is also the reason I never see you criticize PTI and imran for his non-cosmetic flaws like his pro-taliban policy in the past or even dissolving the interparty rigging commission.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

I never said I m not happy with pushton maintain their culture. I just pointed a social phenomena. I m also not happy at all when I see blood in the eyes of the baloch of gwadar. I want to mention that ethnic polarization is on high in our country n since punjab takes the Lions share . Being in majority of the elite ruling group so do they get the major critisizm n believe me the hatred is far more than any other ethnic group. U need to travel a lot with in Pakistan to make an idea abt it.
Solution is to have smaller punjab. Further we need federal party which has representation in all provinces and be representative of all classes. Like other ppl of karachi I also had high hopes with pti which are soon fading away. I see another altaf hussain in making n ppl like asad omar listen ing him as ppl like haider abbas or faisal sabzwari or Mustafa Kamal.
jub bhutto jaise genius of their time ka Yeh has ho sara hey to imran khan bechara to us ka 1/10th bhi nahi.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Lolz at solution of smaller Punjab. There is no cure for racism. One solution is chitrol by establishment which is temporary and may have consequences but it is the only solution. Since people are religiously attached to their ethnicity so they will keep following racism. Uneven development happens everywhere in the world racists will find it as a reason to spread racism.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Wah wah.. don't learn from history. Tikka khan bhi yehi Soch kar bangal gaya tha. ....

Shukar karo india ne humare bahadur ghazion ko chitrol se bucha Liya. We r nah Kafi din tuk bistar pur ulta sona purta humare sheron ko.
Hunh that is the mentality which annoy others.
Wen I was in the school wen ever my friends of other ethnicity ask abt me . I always mention a pakistani. But always I heard u r hindustani. I keep repeating it n keep listening the same. Hence for me hindustani was a ga ali n now I m proud of being called mohajir. Urdu speaking are the last ppl in Pakistan having racism. Wasn't it easy for be haris to opt as bengalis. Why they r still in camps. Just go n see their life. Jub plate main rakh kur halwa mila hey to qadir nahi hoti.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

[QUOTE]
Like other ppl of karachi I also had high hopes with pti which are soon fading away.
[/QUOTE]

^ I'm actually getting tired of hearing this ghissa pitta "I had high hopes for PTI but I'm disappointed" rhetoric from people who actually never bothered to supporting Imran/PTI to begin with.

In case you don't know, that idiot Imran is one man and the only man the country who has actually taken a formidable and historic stance against an all powerful Punjabi oligarchy to highlight how that 'rig Punjab and rule Pakistan' system had destroyed Pakistan, and his message has received more support in Punjab than anywhere else. PTI lonely and somewhat hopeless (yet peaceful) struggle is much better than Punjabi hating MQM goons who make anti Punjabi/anti wadera speeches day and night yet are the first one to come to PPP and PMLN's rescue, and jump in bed with them.

Imran's struggle is being appreciated and his message garners enough support amongst who genuinely want to make a start - any kind of start for better Pakistan without expecting prophetic miracles from a politician. But when it comes to constituencies NA-246 and interior Sindh - all I have to say is that *jaisa moun waisee chappair. *If those people keep electing MQM and PPP despite knowing their crimes - simply on the basis of ethnicity - than good for them, there is nothing, absolutely nothing PTI and Imran can do to convince such insecure ethnicity obsessed people to vote for them. Nope. PTI shouldn't waste any time and energies working on such hopelessly lost battles.

I'd support supporting PTI all together and forever if it gets an armed wing just to so they can enter Karachi, 'empower' itself and 'survive'.

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Dude, if you divide Punjab into smaller provinces the development of that entire region would actually go up many folds! There would massive competition between new provinces and it would totally transform the entire Eastern region. I wonder what lame excuses and racist rationalisation people give to blame the **"three small Punjabi provinces" **for outperforming three poor and forever insecure non Punjabi provinces. ​

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

Making new provinces only in Punjab is complicated .
Read this , reached at all levels , Like it but no one is ready to have some opposition
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/495422-new-provinces-bahawalpur-multan-and-hazarah-35.html#post10178726

Re: change the route of the Pakistan-China Economic Corridor.

You are just trying to divert attention or find excuses for various problems in other areas. The exploitation of other provinces by Punjab is at government level while you are arguing on-street behavior of people around the country.