Challenges facing Muslims in the West

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Asalam Aleykum

This is my first post on gupshup. I was motivated to start a discussion on the challenges faced by muslims in western societies. Often I have heard that a so-called “purer Islam” can be practiced in western, free society. While I am not going to contest that notion, I do know that as a Muslim male:

  • Avoiding looking at scantily clad woman during summer time is close to impossible. I know it is their society and their freedom wear what they choose, I look away but it is everywhere. From the shopping mall to the university.

  • Finding a zabiha halal place is tough, particularly when you’re driving through new town/city. I can eat vegetarian and stick to fish but I wish I had more options.
    Yes, I am aware of zabihah type websites, but it is a bit hard to find a place in Randomtown USA; Population: 2,000.

  • Socializing in the mainstream society without alcohol. Sure I can get a cup of water, juice, soda and I do, but I hate that my colleagues and I can only talk informally in the place where alcohol is prominent. All the parties, professional events and even some desi meetups present this issue.

I grew up in a fairly moderate Pakistani Muslim family environment. As time passed, we became more liberal but that didn’t bring us any spiritual satisfaction. Now I find myself trying to become a better Muslim day to day.

Islam is truly the right path for me. Being born Muslim does not make me one. I see the foundations of my faith grounded in logic. It would be great to hear your thoughts, particularly from a western Islam perspective. Faith is a deeply personal matter for me and I hope that I did not offend.

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Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

Walekum salam,

First a all, great to have you in Gupshup its a fantastic place. Now let me take you through the events which happened exactly 1400 years back and then correspond to the events which we muslims are facing in the west. I will try to bring in similarities from 7th-21st century.

[quote]

  • Avoiding looking at scantily clad woman during summer time is close to impossible. I know it is their society and their freedom wear what they choose, I look away but it is everywhere. From the shopping mall to the university.

[/quote]

This was also the case with 1400 years back scantily clothed females in the Arab world, infact circumambulation was performed nude and dont bother about the clothes.
But still they were good muslims this was due to taqwa i.e. piety, God's fear in the muslims. I find no difference between then and now, i feel its an individual choice. I know its tough but not impossible.

[quote]

  • Finding a zabiha halal place is tough, particularly when you're driving through new town/city. I can eat vegetarian and stick to fish but I wish I had more options. Yes, I am aware of zabihah type websites, but it is a bit hard to find a place in Randomtown USA; Population: 2,000.

[/quote]

Again in rome live as a roman, you have no choice but as a good Muslim you have to strive hard to come over it and face realities. Like in indonesia a majority of them dont know what pulses is, and people from sub continent cant do without it, the only choice is live without it.

[quote]

  • Socializing in the mainstream society without alcohol. Sure I can get a cup of water, juice, soda and I do, but I hate that my colleagues and I can only talk informally in the place where alcohol is prominent. All the parties, professional events and even some desi meetups present this issue.

[/quote]

This problem was also faced 1400 years back, where in Arabs drank alcohol like fish but again its taqwa and choosing the right partners

[quote]

I grew up in a fairly moderate Pakistani Muslim family environment. As time passed, we became more liberal but that didn't bring us any spiritual satisfaction. Now I find myself trying to become a better Muslim day to day.

Islam is truly the right path for me. Being born Muslim does not make me one. I see the foundations of my faith grounded in logic. It would be great to hear your thoughts, particularly from a western Islam perspective. Faith is a deeply personal matter for me and I hope that I did not offend

[/quote]

Alhamdullillaah, good to hear your questioning yourself and as a Muslim, i would love all Muslims to questions themselves
1) Is islam the right religion and why
2) We follow, what our elders have taught us the Islam is so and so and believe blindly.

The bold part is what I would like you to do.For me first rationality/logic came before faith, once my queries were answered its faith now completely.

Regards,

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Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

[quote]
infact circumambulation was performed nude and dont bother about the clothes.
[/quote]

Are you really SURE about that? ;)

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1000% tension nahi lena ka, ye dekho aap to itna kush ho rahein hain. The fact is more things are needed to be told about pre islamic period which i feel most of them dont realise, today.

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Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

So ;) means someone is happy?

What a "simile expert" ? :D

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Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

Being muslim in the West can be tough, but its really not so tough. I agree that these problems do exist, but here are some points.

  1. You can always open up a fast food/eatery of sorts that serves Halaal food. You can also work with resteraunts, etc out there to provide a Halaal option for parties, and banquets, etc.

  2. If you're not gorging on meat products from outside, you're not really missing out. Learn to cook and prepare your own meals - they end up being healthier and you could do to avoid coronary events.

  3. Okay, really now, conservative is in fashion. Girls aren't dressing half as scandelously as they used to. Secondly, I think that with a good iman, you can easily avoid staring at women as if you're staring at a peice of steak.

  4. I hear ya about the drinking. I tend not to like socializing much with people I work with. But you gotta do it sometimes. So, what I do is I end up inviting people over and cooking for them. You can get creative, and you have no clue how much people appreciate something like that. They end up not paying for their dinner and being sober enough to enjoy it, AND they remember what they discussed! It ends up being unique and you stand out, and no one can say you're anti-social.

Now, let me list the issues I have with being a practicing muslim in Pakistan:

  1. I can't go out to many places in Pakistan, because men give very dirty stares, and they often grope.

  2. I cannot travel alone. I'll get harmed. This goes for muslim men too - you guys get mugged all the time in Pakistan.

  3. If I get robbed, raped, etc, there will usually be no insaaf as the police really don't have anything in control, and usually they're on the side of the criminals anyway.

  4. If I try to make a change in Pakistan's social problems or political problems, I will first get insulted and ridiculed left and right, and then possibly murdered. It'll be staged to look like an accident.

  5. I can't eat out - even if its halaal. I contract a virus, bacteria, or parasite infection.

  6. I can't avoid looking at men in Pakistan. They really are a beautiful breed of male. And since they're mostly muslim, they're all fair game, unlike here in the United States where I don't bother checking guys out because they're usually not muslim.

  7. I can't use electronical resources whenever I want to - the light is usually out. I still get bills.

  8. In Pakistan, I have to deal with too much family politics. Not so here. No aunty can get in my face and tell me how to wear my clothes in this country or how to raise my kids or that I need to lose at least 10 lbs.

I can really keep going, honestly, but I think you get the point.

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Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

Thank you so much for the welcome and the words of advice. Without a doubt, your resolve is tested in a Western society. While I understand the parallels that you have drawn during the time of the Prophet (PBUH), we also have to recognize that we muslims (myself included) would not be in such sad state today, if we had the imaan of the early converts. Their faith and zeal is evident in the rapid spread and domination of the arabian peninsula of that era, while we modern day muslims can't even unite in our faith!

I do appreciate the support.

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Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

**Being muslim in the West can be tough, but its really not so tough. I agree that these problems do exist, but here are some points.

  1. You can always open up a fast food/eatery of sorts that serves Halaal food. You can also work with resteraunts, etc out there to provide a Halaal option for parties, and banquets, etc.

  2. If you're not gorging on meat products from outside, you're not really missing out. Learn to cook and prepare your own meals - they end up being healthier and you could do to avoid coronary events.
    **

Those are some good points. Finding halaal restaurants in most metro areas is not that difficult. In particular, I like number #2. I just realized that during my travels to Randomvile USA, I can buy food at the supermarket.

As for making my own food, in principle I would completely agree. However due to my hectic schedule, I hardly get the chance to come home and do anything besides go to sleep. It might sound like a cop out but when you're working 50-60 hours a week, grabbing that tuna sandwich or salad is so easy. I miss being away from my parents.

**
3. Okay, really now, conservative is in fashion. Girls aren't dressing half as scandelously as they used to. Secondly, I think that with a good iman, you can easily avoid staring at women as if you're staring at a peice of steak.
**

I don't claim to follow womens fashion so I don't know whether current trends are conservative or not. Besides the word 'conservative' itself is highly subjective. What I can tell you is that short skirts and low cut tops have not fallen out of favor. I am trying to be real by saying that its not like I expect or call for women to be dressed in burkas in the US, but I can assure you that a large number of women (on the younger end) that you will find in downtowns of major cities are not dressing 'conservatively.' And I am not talking in the Muslim sense, but rather under the Judeo-Christian tradition. One huge exception would be places like Salt Lake City and other cities where there are large Mormon populations.

To further give you my perspective, it is not like I am walking around perving on women on street. I do lower my gaze, look the other way, but many times looking the other way, you still catch glimpses/sights. The intent is definitely there. Fortunately, I work in a male dominated work environment with a few females that dress and act very professional.

**
4. I hear ya about the drinking. I tend not to like socializing much with people I work with. But you gotta do it sometimes. So, what I do is I end up inviting people over and cooking for them. You can get creative, and you have no clue how much people appreciate something like that. They end up not paying for their dinner and being sober enough to enjoy it, AND they remember what they discussed! It ends up being unique and you stand out, and no one can say you're anti-social.
**

That is an amazing idea. I am not much of cook but can make some killer smoothies. Even during our post work outings, I am the one emphasizing the availability of non-Alcoholic drinks. As I mentioned before, the workplace being dominated by males has negative side as well: the unnecessary bravado and frat boy mentality of going on a 'bender' on Thursday night (forgetting the 9 AM Friday meeting).

As for the issues in Pakistan, I am really disappointed to see the sad state over there. I gather that Pakistani society really hides behind the veneer of Islam, where the improper behavior is lurking under the radar. Hypocrisy without a doubt.

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damn my brother , this is not a challegne but an opportunity!!!

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I cannot speak on behalf of whole Muslim world but it seems to me that living in USA is far easier as a practicing Muslim than living in Pakistan and perform your religious duties.
I have not experience any religious discrimination in USA in last many years, in Pakistan you are outcaste as Mulla if you carry a beard and perform 5 time prayers.
In USA you can control what your kids watch on TV, in Pakistani channels there is no concept of ratings (PG13, PG, G ...) so you really cannot watch almost any show with your kids being around.
In USA you know that your money and your izzat are safe because of better law and order. In Pakistan rape, kidnapping, robbery, mugging is a normal thing.
The point being, it is easier to get away from non-Islamic life style in USA and practice your faith than in Pakistan where stupidities are becoming part of daily life in the name of moderation.

My solution to brother pakone’s issues are,
-- Carry your own food during travel. Many Americans carry there food while traveling. Or eat Pizza or fish sandwich. There are more veggie options in every restaurant now than there were few years ago.
-- Don’t go to the parties where alcohol is served. On judgment day, your social mates are not going to stand in front of you and save you from bitter judgment. I've seen Hindus who in parties and picnics, insist on having a separate table setup where only veg. food is being served/placed. When they can practice their faith without shame, why can't we.
--- (Avoiding looking at scantily clad woman during summer time is close to impossible). I don’t know what to say but it is not close to impossible. Follow the Nike slogan on this one, "JUST DO IT".

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I thought when you guys were talking scantily dressed girls, it meant western muslim girls too?

Btw, hasn't Pakistan gone into a radical change at least to my brothers that went in 2002-3 and esp 2004 after 1998) in the amount of flirting / affairs / "interesting clothing"??

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I appreciate the responses to my questions. I think my first question has been resolved.

In regards to not attending parties where alcohol is served is not possible. Those of us who work in certain professional fields, we are expected to show up at these events and be "team players." As I mentioned before, the work environment is frat boyish at times. Don't get me wrong, its an amazing place to be because we work so closely that work/after work activities are infused together.

If you "get your own table" or not attend these events, you show that you are anti-social/different from them. That impacts the on the job relationship and opportunities to get ahead professionally. Besides I like these guys, just don't like
the fact that they like to hangout at bars after work. At no point am I shameful of my religion, in fact everyone know that I am a "non-drinking Muslim," which is sad in itself because my colleagues point out that their muslim friend has no problem getting wasted.

For the scantilly clad issue, I should just put on blinders (horse style) so that I don't see anyone at all jk! At this point, all I can say is that I am trying.

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I don't really know about western muslim girls as my interactions are limited to my cousins and daughters of family friends. I know that they dress quite proper (at least when I have seen them). As for the other western muslim girls, its really their choice to follow/not follow the faith.

SOCCER...NO
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Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

Not to mean this is any offensive way, but maybe you might want to start thinking about getting married, since keeping your eyes controlled is proving to be difficult. Your body might be trying to tell you something.

Secondly, I think you can still go to these parties. I feel the same way you do - the necessity to socialize with the frat-mentality guys is pretty much everywhere. However, I can give you two examples: My father has to deal with the same environment. But since he works so hard, and does so many things for his company, and because his attitude is great with co-workers, no one really blames him for declining those sorts of invitations. He used to go, and take my mom, but one time, this drunk co-worker was hitting on my mom (I wasn't born). After that, his excuse for not attending those happy hours, is that he needs to go home to his family and that his wife will kill him if he's not home on time. Co-workers understand and don't really pressure him.

Me: I will go to parties where alcohol is served, but I simply go and make an appearance. I go right when I know everyone is still sober, and I leave when it looks like they're getting drunk, which is within the hour. They don't even remember when I left, and if they ask, I joke that they were so drunk that they didn't even notice when I left!

I don't go to every party, because realistically, I have other things to do, and when people ask, I let them know that I am spending that time catching up with doing groceries or shopping, and they understand. Sometimes, I fake trips "out of town" on weekends, so I don't get bothered.

And then I throw a party periodically at my own home, and serve a delicious meal. Usually a lunch thing, so alcohol isn't really expected. Sometimes, I make it a semi-study affair or a semi-business affair, where we discuss some project or the other.

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I agree with most things you have said they are indeed big obstacles and great temptations having lived in a one horse town in indiana and that too in a dorm for nearly a year
get married as soon as you can
Read Quran, pray a lot , read stories of the Prophets the righteous amongst their families and their pious companions and see how they avoided sin

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I know its very hard I once got into trouble for not showing up at such a formal party where there was music ,alcohol etc. served
so my weak eman made me attend the next one as I was afraid of making my boss upset …I regretted it as I must have made Allah (swt) angry and didnt care at the time.
I tried to justify it in my head but in reality there is no justification, I could very well work in a muslim country [where there are no such problems ] in a place next to a mosque where i can pray in jammat 5 times a day …but i dont do it i work in a secular country by my choice

so its all about priorities …we usually pick the wrong ones
but never try to justify your wrongdoing …I know its tempting …but if you you keep your ideals clear you will always reform even though your mind might be tortured by your actions. If however we blur the distinction between right and wrong we will not only commit sins willingly but also have no regret about it that will take us farther and farther away from truth …we might not have the level of eman of abu darda[ra] but that does not mean we give up trying

avoid all such “friends’” here we cannot even justify it by the argument …“its part of my job” …
they will can you a prude and at worst a homosexual but who cares what they think ?..you basic interest should be to keep your job …you might not be the most popular one at workplace but try to compensate for that by working harder , everyone values a hardworker , prude or not …and try to find practicsing muslim friends who you can atleast keep in touch by phone

quote]
get married if you can…its very hard to aviod this …i am still single too so I know what you mean

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*Not to mean this is any offensive way, but maybe you might want to start thinking about getting married, since keeping your eyes controlled is proving to be difficult. Your body might be trying to tell you something. *

I am not offended at all. Marriage makes sense total sense, just need to sort out my career and life before I take that plunge. Oh yeh, getting that right girl is important.

**
Secondly, I think you can still go to these parties. I feel the same way you do - the necessity to socialize with the frat-mentality guys is pretty much everywhere. However, I can give you two examples: My father has to deal with the same environment. But since he works so hard, and does so many things for his company, and because his attitude is great with co-workers, no one really blames him for declining those sorts of invitations. He used to go, and take my mom, but one time, this drunk co-worker was hitting on my mom (I wasn't born). After that, his excuse for not attending those happy hours, is that he needs to go home to his family and that his wife will kill him if he's not home on time. Co-workers understand and don't really pressure him.

Me: I will go to parties where alcohol is served, but I simply go and make an appearance. I go right when I know everyone is still sober, and I leave when it looks like they're getting drunk, which is within the hour. They don't even remember when I left, and if they ask, I joke that they were so drunk that they didn't even notice when I left!

I don't go to every party, because realistically, I have other things to do, and when people ask, I let them know that I am spending that time catching up with doing groceries or shopping, and they understand. Sometimes, I fake trips "out of town" on weekends, so I don't get bothered.

And then I throw a party periodically at my own home, and serve a delicious meal. Usually a lunch thing, so alcohol isn't really expected. Sometimes, I make it a semi-study affair or a semi-business affair, where we discuss some project or the other.**

I like those suggestions, because you have mentioned some real and personal examples. Sometimes I see people, including many religious folks and shaykhs so "don't do it..haraam etc. etc." but its good to get the real perspective from the real people, living the life. You might think that I am not taking this seriously but these issues are big deal for me. In fact, our next Thursday night after work thing is going to include dinner and will specifically mention that non-alcoholic drinks are encouraged. It might take some time, but we'll get it right.

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I am glad to hear that you know where I am coming from. I read the Quran on the weekends. I try to read with translations because arabic is not my native language. Any suggestions for Quran CD/Mp3 w/translations? It would be great to get at least a surah by surah translation.

I hope that we can talk about practical issues that we face as Muslims in the West, instead of the discussions on the abstract/theological questions. Don't get me wrong, those high minded talks have their own purposes, but for those of us born & raised in the West, we need to get real and talk about how we balance the commitment to our faith and society.

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Enjoy the show! :p :D

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It can be, if you really try. People will make fun of you, criticize you, even hate you, but if you stick to your beliefs, and can ignore all this, it will only make your faith stronger.

[quote]
While I am not going to contest that notion, I do know that as a Muslim male:

  • Avoiding looking at scantily clad woman during summer time is close to impossible. I know it is their society and their freedom wear what they choose, I look away but it is everywhere. From the shopping mall to the university.

  • Finding a zabiha halal place is tough, particularly when you're driving through new town/city. I can eat vegetarian and stick to fish but I wish I had more options.
    Yes, I am aware of zabihah type websites, but it is a bit hard to find a place in Randomtown USA; Population: 2,000.

  • Socializing in the mainstream society without alcohol. Sure I can get a cup of water, juice, soda and I do, but I hate that my colleagues and I can only talk informally in the place where alcohol is prominent. All the parties, professional events and even some desi meetups present this issue.
    [/quote]

And it is precisely because of all these "challenges" that have a role in your level of faith. Because Muslims face these challenges (and view them as such), they can either go with them to be a part of the mainstream culture, which may be much easier for them, and end up abandoning their faith, or go against the mainstream culture (most of which goes against Islam) and instead builds their faith. =