Challenges facing Muslims in the West

TLK · July 11, 2007, 3:33pm

Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

Brother Pakone, I dont want to add to the list of advice your are getting but my request, read quran with Tafseer, not just translation. If you know urdu, let me know. I can send you two of my favorite websites with excellent Tafseer. You can download on your MP3 Player and at work you can listen to it for couple of hours everyday and complete the whole Quran with translation and Tafseer in 2-3 months

USResident · July 11, 2007, 3:45pm

Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

Pak vs. WI - 2nd ODI - May 21

Asalam Aleykum

This is my first post on gupshup. I was motivated to start a discussion on the challenges faced by muslims in western societies. Often I have heard that a so-called “purer Islam” can be practiced in western, free society. While I am not going to contest that notion, I do know that as a Muslim male:

Avoiding looking at scantily clad woman during summer time is close to impossible. I know it is their society and their freedom wear what they choose, I look away but it is everywhere. From the shopping mall to the university.

Finding a zabiha halal place is tough, particularly when you’re driving through new town/city. I can eat vegetarian and stick to fish but I wish I had more options.
Yes, I am aware of zabihah type websites, but it is a bit hard to find a place in Randomtown USA; Population: 2,000.

Socializing in the mainstream society without alcohol. Sure I can get a cup of water, juice, soda and I do, but I hate that my colleagues and I can only talk informally in the place where alcohol is prominent. All the parties, professional events and even some desi meetups present this issue.

I grew up in a fairly moderate Pakistani Muslim family environment. As time passed, we became more liberal but that didn’t bring us any spiritual satisfaction. Now I find myself trying to become a better Muslim day to day.

Islam is truly the right path for me. Being born Muslim does not make me one. I see the foundations of my faith grounded in logic. It would be great to hear your thoughts, particularly from a western Islam perspective. Faith is a deeply personal matter for me and I hope that I did not offend.

Nice thread and welcome to gupshup. I hope it stays practical. Me being in the US understand what you mean and how it bothers you and tempts at the same time.

For the women issue, the best you can get is to stay away from places which are not family oriented. If you are in the work place from 8 - 5 then people dress pretty decently there anyway. This problem is mostly apparent when your in malls or other places. Your best defense is really your control of your nafs. For me I just walk past without even trying to notice. Works 95% of the time but then hey we’re all human and advertently or inadvertently it does happen and not only because you are in USA. The dresses in Pakistan are no exception to feeding our desires, with what our women wear over there in summer, paper thin shalwar kameez, things sometimes become just as mayoob. Again its your Niyah, if it is clean then your actions follow. If you are married then try and go out with your family, which will keep you under control also.
As far as zabiha goes, its not a problem for me because I am of the opinion that I can consume from the people of the book with exception to intoxicants and pork. However i still always bring zabiha meat in my house but I usually do not have problem eating outside when needed. My honest opinion has been that muslims have over-complicated this issue and unconsciously make a moutain out of a mole hill because they want to act distinct and less through religious conviction.
This is really something that gets me as well. It becomes quite hard for me to socialize infromally because it starts with a beer and ends with it. I have no choice but to socialize on occasions such as meetings or company lunches and dinners where I know alcoholism will not be permitted. You can also invite to your home if appropriate. There is no need to loose your identity. Not everyone is the same, some people will ridicule you but not all, there are many who respect your beliefs as well and I have seen that come when you at least try to understand their beliefs as well. Christians who are not bigots and practice their religion somewhat tend to be friendly and respectful. My neighbour used to be a minister, I never had issue with him or him with me. We even exchanged visits in each others homes and shared food. He knew my limits and I did his. One more thing in the society here is that you do not start preaching your beliefs to them until they show their own curiosity infact to be friends with them its often more fruitful when when you inquire about their beliefs and occasions. Friends are not made by telling them you are wrong or I can’t mingle with you because I think you do wrong things. You need to find an understanding. You may never be as close with them as you are with your own muslim people but they will not be hostile to you either. Even though they do not share our beliefs many of them can still be very respectful. Infact I have never found much respect in my own people and we are just as much hypocritical as we claim them to be.

Mograkali · July 11, 2007, 7:35pm

Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

Dude, you live in thier country. Get a grip and stop gripeing. If it is so offensive to you, dont stay. Really.. the nerve!

Besides which... are you an animal, that you cannot control your baser instincts cause of a glimpse of skin?

And if you cannot figure things out to suit you without causing offense and getting all crazed, perhaps you dont have the suitability, maturity and cultural sophistication to be a global citizen, to live and let live in someone else's environment.

Grow up.

zobia · July 11, 2007, 7:46pm

Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

problemz r every where. seeking utopian land will leadz to potential monotony, which is itself a problem.

as for problemz faced by Muslims, i would like to quote HAZRAT ALI :ra: “My fiascos realized me of ALLAH SWT”

TLK · July 11, 2007, 9:34pm

Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

Hmmmm… here we go again.
Yes if we know for sure that the zabiha is done by the people of the book and the animal was slaughterd (not electrocuted) on the name of Lord/Allah/God. I am not sure if Big MAC gives that surity (not that I am implying your liking to that sandwich)

pak-one · July 11, 2007, 11:41pm

Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

Bro, I do tafseer jointly with the translation. Slows me down in terms of getting through the pages but it's well worth it.

I am fluent in Urdu, so if you PM those websites, it would be great. I always welcome advice.

pak-one · July 11, 2007, 11:51pm

Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

In regards to the meat issue. I think Kosher food falls under similar parameters as zabihah.

I know our community is divided on the halal meat/zabihah halal issue, but lets not be critical of the other side on this issue. For the vast majority of my life I ate non Zabihah meat due to being young and my parents felt it was ok. After going back and forth on this issue, I decided to keep it zabihah only, because that is what I felt comfortable.

What is actually more important is that we are more careful of how the food is prepared. Issues of contamination with pork or its by products should be bigger concern. Many times, the same grills and utensils are used to cook similar foods. Please be careful.

USResident · July 12, 2007, 1:56am

Re: Challenges facing Muslims in the West

Yup here we go again. This is my personal opinion and I follow it because there is no conclusive evidence in the Quran that I cannot consume their food. What si clearly forbidden is ritual meat. Please read the Quranic verse from Surah Maidah very carefully:

5:3 FORBIDDEN to you is carrion, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that over which any name OTHER than God’s has been invoked,Asad(5,7) [7]](IslamiCity - The Global Muslim eCommunitytruefalsefalsefalsetruefalse&-#) and the animal that has been strangled, or beaten to death, or killed by a fall, or gored to death, or savaged by a beast of prey, save that which you [yourselves] may have slaughtered while it was still alive; and [forbidden to you is] all that has been slaughtered on idolatrous altars.Asad(5,8) [8]](IslamiCity - The Global Muslim eCommunitytruefalsefalsefalsetruefalse&-#) And [you are forbidden] to seek to learn through divination what the future may hold in store for you:Asad(5,9) [9]](IslamiCity - The Global Muslim eCommunitytruefalsefalsefalsetruefalse&-#) this is sinful conduct. Today, those who , are bent on denying the truth have lost all hope of [your ever forsaking] your religion: do not, then, hold them in awe, but stand in awe of Me! Today have I perfected your religious law for you, and have bestowed upon you the full measure of My blessings, and willed that self-surrender unto Me shall be your religion.Asad(5,10) [10]](IslamiCity - The Global Muslim eCommunitytruefalsefalsefalsetruefalse&-#) As for him, however, who is driven [to what is forbidden] by dire necessityAsad(5,11) [11]](IslamiCity - The Global Muslim eCommunitytruefalsefalsefalsetruefalse&-#) and not by an inclination to sinning -behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.

What is forbidden you cannot make halal and simiarly what is permissible you cannot make haram. That which is not liked or not clear cannot be made haram as we have done thus far in the case of meat. The emboldened part needs attention, as it is forbidding us ritual meat, it is not saying that you cannot consume meat over which Allah SWT name has not been pronounced. It is forbidding meat over which a name other than Allah SWT has been pronounced. Both these points have a very fine difference. I have capitalized OTHER to make it stand out.

Here is the verse which makes food from the people of the book lawful for us and it has no ifs and buts defined to it and it is within the same context of this Surah as well:

5:5 Today, all the good things of life have been made lawful to you. And the food of those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime is lawful to you,Asad(5,14) [14]](IslamiCity - The Global Muslim eCommunitytruetruetruefalsetruetrue&-op=#) and your food is lawful to them. And [lawful to you are], in wedlock, women from among those who believe [in this divine writ], and, in wedlock, women from among those who have been vouchsafed revelation before your time -provided that you give them their dowers, taking them in honest wedlock, not in fornication, nor as secret love-companions.Asad(5,15) [15]](IslamiCity - The Global Muslim eCommunitytruetruetruefalsetruetrue&-op=#) But as for him who rejects belief [in God] - in vain will be all his works: for in the life to come he shall be among the lost.Asad(5,16) [16]](IslamiCity - The Global Muslim eCommunitytruetruetruefalsetruetrue&-op=#)

Here is the only verse you can find in the Quran which you might try to leverage:

6:118 EAT, then, of that over which God’s name has been pronounced, if you truly believe in His messages.Asad(6,104) [104]](IslamiCity - The Global Muslim eCommunitytruetrue<t#)
6:119 And why should you not eat of that over which God’s name has been pronounced, seeing that He has so clearly spelled out to you what He has forbidden you [to eat] unless you are compelled [to do so]? But, behold, [it is precisely in such matters that] many people lead others astray by their own errant views, without [having any real] knowledge. Verily, thy Sustainer is fully aware of those who transgress the bounds of what is right.

If you would but notice even in the arabic of this verse it is not talking about slaughtering but eating. So you say Bismillah when you eat.

Jews are jews and Christians are christians, the Quran accounted for this fact when it gave permission for us to consume their food and set no constraints on it. It did not even define how muslims should slaughter the animal, that is given in the ahadith. The main point the Quran makes is that you are consuming in his name not necessarily slaughtering in his name. This is where I differ from most muslims today who have made a mountain out of a mole hill here. Our quest for looking different in the west has brought us to these justifications, which really do not matter.