Re: Chaaleeswan
Inuit debate all you want. Show me one ayath in Quran that says that on the 40th day after the death of your loved one , you should invite people and have them read Quarn and have untold number of “degay”? or maybe even a hadith or some similar incident from the life of Prophet Muhammad:saw:. Noe, do you still want to debate?
Re: Chaaleeswan
Kaleem I wanna debate. you didnt understand what inuit was saying. theres three classses of amal. sawab, gunah and mubah, where mubah amaal get neither sawab nor gunah.
the burden of proof is upon you who claims it to be so necessary to avoid. as far as I know, it involves gathering together of relatives (sawab/mubah), having guests over (sawab), reading the Quran (sawab). if people traditionally do certain sawab/mubah things, you simply cannot say they're doing something wrong, unless you prove it. just saying that the Prophet (pbuh&hp) didnt do it means nothing, because the Prophet (pbuh&hp) didnt post on this bulletin board either.
is it gunah for me to perform an extra nafl on days where I have particularly fond memories attached for example?
Re: Chaaleeswan
Volume 1, Book 6, Number 310:
Narrated Um-'Atiya:
We were forbidden to mourn for a dead person for more than three days except in the case of a husband for whom mourning was allowed for four months and ten days. (During that time) we were not allowed to put ko,hl (Antimony eye power) in our eyes or to use perfumes or to put on colored clothes except a dress made of 'Asb (a kind of Yemen cloth, very coarse and rough). We were allowed very light perfumes at the time of taking a bath after menses and also we were forbidden to go with the funeral procession .
Sahih Bukhari
Re: Chaaleeswan
^
things when not done as told by the Prophet (saw) do not remain sawab....
e.g. umrah has 7 tawaf of the kaaba, and tawaaf of kaaba is sawab, so if u go and do 10, u have WRONGED, and its no longer sawab....
instead u need to repeat and rectify the ERROR....
chaleeswan, khatam etc r all bid'at....
one shud stay away from them....
Re: Chaaleeswan
sharaabi, you do not address the point im making. im specifically talking about the rituals you folks so assuredly state as bidah and whatnot, such as quran khwani at the chaleeswaan and biryani waghera for guests. not in mourning, in remembrance.
now armughal, you know your example doesnt hold. I didnt say what if I wanted to pray 50 rakaat instead of 4 for isha, and that is the equivalent example. No question certain acts are to be performed in certain ways, BUT that isnt relevant here.
I said that there is no reason to say that sawab/mubah acts performed traditionally become haraam.
again, if I pray a shukrana nafl, or a chapter from the Quran on certain days I have fondness for, or on specific days for any reason.. please tell me how that is bad and to be avoided.
unless you show me that there are only certain times when one can be hospitable towards visiting relatives, only certain times when one should read the Quran..all these etarazaat are baal ki khaal.
Re: Chaaleeswan
^
perhaps it wud make more sense if u cud say why u wish to have the gathering on the 40th day....
why not the 35th, or 36 or any other day....
and mourning (which is definitely done on chaleeswan) is again not allowed after 3 days....
Re: Chaaleeswan
why not on the 40th? just saying that it could be done on another day does not mean that it shouldnt be done on the 40th. in itself most of the sawab acts mentioned here (serving guests, reading quran etc) do not become haram just because they’re done at a particular time.
again, if you’re questioning an established practice the burden is on you to prove its haram. given that most of the stuff that happens is sawab/mubah and is of comfort to the suffering you guys really have to make a strong case for it being haram or not-sawab.
well restrict that then. why the rest?
Re: Chaaleeswan
^
what exactly in it is sawab????
fazool kharchi....
hiring some kids to read Quran, and we know most of them dont even take care if what they read is right or wrong....
ppl thinking that they can get 100 ppl to read parts of Quran and think that the sawab of this reading can be attributed to the dead
[n]now most of what goes on is considered as IBADAH....
the general rule for IBADAH concerning halal/haram is opposite to halal/haram in eating....
in food, anything not declared haraam from quran/hadith is halal...
in ibadah, anything not confirmed from quran/hadith is haram....**
Re: Chaaleeswan
Im sorry but what you call fazool kharchi can also be called hospitality. the tradition of our Prophet and those we hold dear to us was to sacrifice their own food for their guests. We never hire kids to read Quran, its always relatives amongst us in our family, and bey'adabi is never allowed. and I dont know, perhaps it varies across sects but atleast in our sect we can pray nawafil/fateha/paray for the dead. Im pretty sure its in sunnis too but u'd know better. At any rate even if they are wrong in thinking that they're blessing the dead, they are reading the Quran for God's sake! how can u construe that as gunah based on timing?
If you have gripes with how things are done, then fine. Do things right. Just because its possible for rat poison to get into my guests food doesnt mean I dont serve him dinner.
Now, tell me. you're told that you should pray nafal whenever you're happy or when you're feeling thankful towards Allah. do you decide from the Quran/hadith if you are feeling thankful?
Your quote holds relevance as far as deciding HOW to pray ibadah, and perhaps WHEN to pray fara'iz.
Once again, there is NO question that the aamaal being done, the ones I am defending, are sawaab aamal in their own right. Serving food, offering prayers, reciting the Quran. Im asking how can you make a sawaab amal into haram purely because its done at a specific time.
Re: Chaaleeswan
shabash ravage..jeetay raho
Re: Chaaleeswan
All i hear from people is bidah bidah bidah and BIDAH? Do these scholars even know what the word "bidah" is??
Re: Chaaleeswan
when you add something in azaan..that is biddah
Re: Chaaleeswan
Armughal !
Some part of the following part I wrote in another thread in this forum.
Not necessarily on 40th – They can gather even on 37th day, 35th days. Which ever is holiday and convenient for people to gather from different parts of world for condolence .
2ndly this 40 days, 20 days or even 35 or 37 days are for some social reasons. In these days communication means are fast. People can travel from one city to another even in 1 days.
In older times, because of lack of communications and other problems for example (1) “leave from job for a bit longer period urgently” (2) business etc, it was not possible for all family members to get together for condolence right after the death of somebody even to get together in the first week was difficult. Not only the family member get together but neighbors and friends from one village but from other neighboring village get together for condolence. That is why the elders decide a date after 35, 37 or 40 days on some weekend that all family members, neighbors friends, (even friends’ friends) from the same village or from neighboring villages will get together again on such and such date for condolence and for recitation of Quran and Duas.
This why they save the time; less hassle. Everybody was able to meet everybody. Not only for one condolences but for many other condolences and for some other social reasons.
They don’t do this for every death. But for the death of some prominent personality. Like grandfather, for death of a young man in some accident etc. not for ordinary person like me. It has also seen that family elder made an announcement to get together in days which were closer to Eid days. Even days which were close to some marriage.
This more cultural and social thing rather than some ruling in religious.
If somebody dont like to go; it depends how much he is attached with his famaily and family system.
Can we say that all other cultural issues which are non-Arab or not in Sunnah are always un-islamic or anti-islamic. Why do people mix-up things. What are the teachings of Islam.
If it is not forbidden its halal al aslo fi ashyaa e mubaha . All things are allowed to do unless until they are forbidden to do in Quran and Sunnah. If you see there no any conflict with Quran and Sunnah you can do it. If you think that 'tail mehndi' is not mentioned as forbidden you can do it. But make sure you are not doing Israaf (spending unnecessarily more money, wasting money) or harmful for other people and society.
What about spending too much money on Walima. ?
Just to invite you to ask some sense able questions: if you have a question- let me reply you back in answer as a counter question; which you help you to define a rule. Right.
Kaleem !
Show me one ayath in Quran that says that on the 40th day after the death of your loved one , you should NOT invite people and have them read Quarn and have untold number of "degay"?
Show me one hadith or some similar incident from the life of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH&HF)
There are lots of similar kinds of questions.
Re: Chaaleeswan
Ravage, I expected better argument from you than “posting on this board” rant. Anyway, lets put this aside and lets look at the points here.
As a Muslim where do you go to get answers related to Islam?
Now, if we agree on this point we can move to the next subject.
Most of the supporters of Chalesswan seem to miss the important point here, Chaleeswan is not an Islamic tradition. It never was and never will be. Why does it have to be the 40th day, you should be reading Quarn every day. You can pray for the maghfirat of your loved one every day. Why put so much emphasis on one day? Wayward tradtions and customs were one of the issues Prophet:saw: faced and fought against.
Re: Chaaleeswan
Its maybe a bidah guys but its a good un. like the tarawihs are for example.
Re: Chaaleeswan
hey code red..can you lock this one as well..seems like u are enjoying locking threads :)
Re: Chaaleeswan
So tarawih is a bidah???
hmm, thats new to me.
Re: Chaaleeswan
^ yeah, yeah, but its a good un like. All good bidahs are good :k:
Re: Chaaleeswan
I though Tarawih is sunnah not bidah.
sis are you sure about that?
Re: Chaaleeswan
no. the example I gave about bulletin boards was given for this reason. the traditions and habits we have can have inherent good or bad merit without necessarily having existed at the time of Prophet or in arabic custom. we extrapolate from Islamic principles to make sure what we do today is Islamic or not.
Islam can tell you if certain actions are halal or haram, sawab, gunah or mubah.
No, the burden of proof is always on the claimant. This is an established practice and you need to prove that it is haram.
Heres what you need to do. You need to tell me that a sawab thing becomes haram simply because I traditionally do it at a specific time. Find me any proof for saying that, any proof at all.
bear in my that my actions are sawab, and what Im doing is not inherently different from praying nafl at special occasions. prove to me that good actions become bad if they’re done traditionally or if they’re done at a specific time. prove to me that if I always wanna do umra at a time I feel particularly fond of, it becomes a haram umra.
bah.. read my replies to armughal..i dont wanna type it all over again 