CDA Bulldozing Illegally constructed Mosques in Islamabad

[hareem01]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

I dunno, ask previous govts why they were hoodwinked and blackmailed by the weirdo beardos into letting them construst illegal structures.

If there are other illegal structures than the govt has a complete right to demolish them as well, whether they are used for religious, commercial, personal or whatever purposes.

There are many mosques that are builf properly, on land that was either bought or donated, not land that was stolen.

You Know Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) had a beard......Think before you write.
May Allah guide you to the right path.

I can't believe I'm reading a writing of a muslim.

I'm saying again ......If Government has a valid reason to demolish the mosque they can do it.[other than the unpaid land]

[hareem01]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

lets not go on tangents here. take musharraf and bars and what nots out of the equation.

lets finalize the discussion on wether it is right to construct structures on stole properties and setting them as mosques..or anything for that matter.

who stole the property?
from whom?
Should'nt Musharraf save the site of the Mosque?
but why would he.....he's too busy in opening bars.

[Sa1eem]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

hareem01:

[quote]
you've showed me one sign of mujahid of Islam i show you others
(1) He make things halal which Allah and His Prophet(pbuh) has made haram.
[/quote]

I do not know anything that he has made halal that Allah and his prophet has made haram (What I know is that no laws that came in last many years during Musharraf rule, any of them were against Islam. That is news to me that some un-Islamic law has come in Pakistan, may be you know something secret and more aware then me on what is happening in Pakistan :))

[quote[(2) He murderes innocent people. [/quote]

That is again news to me. Other then cross firing incidence and collateral damages of innocent life, no innocent people were killed during Musharaf rule intentionally, as it was norm before Musharraf when political leaders in power use to kill people just to stay politically strong and Zia (biggest munafiq Pakistan has ever seen) was worse as his reign was full of innocent killings. Z A Bhutto, BB Bhutto and N Shareef were not far behind Zia-ul-haq in killing innocents.

quote he helps Kuffar in thier wrong doing.
[/quote]

   Well, I don’t see that way. Actually this is propaganda of vested interests. If one see history of Pakistan, Pakistan army was fighting for USA during Zia in Afghanistan killing Afghans opposed to American interests, later Pakistan along with CIA help fought NA for Taliban, Now, things are a bit different and those getting effect are shouting foul, nothing important. Those Afghans are use to getting bombed by foreign powers and they are having same. Fortunately, it is not Pakistani air force or army in Afghanistan fighting. Those trouble makers within Pakistan borders, it is obvious that Pakistan have to control them and there is no need to fight USA or others for their crime.

qupte he celebrates ' basant '.
[/quote]

So what? Basant is Pakistan local festival and Islam does not disallow local festivals, as long as there is no elements of worship there. Obviously, no one celebrates basant as religious festival. That is different matter that it is becoming public hazard and thus government has to do something about that.

quote And he ruins mosques.
[/quote]

Again, you are wrong. His government is just demolishing those temples that are illegally built.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm but then .. It seems that you would not understand that mosque cannot be built on stolen lands :)

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

You Know Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) had a beard......Think before you write. May Allah guide you to the right path

I can't believe I'm reading a writing of a muslim.

well from what I know abu jahal and abu lahab also had beards. The beard itself is not some holy thing. Its the person with the beard that matters.

These guys have beards but they are weirdos, because they are thiefs...or as they are referred to in arabic..haraami.

May Allah guide all of us to the right path

I'm saying again ......If Government has a valid reason to demolish the mosque they can do it.[other than the unpaid land]

why should a structure on illegal land (whch you refer to as unpaid land) not be demolished. That land could be earmarked for other uses... and even if it was not, no one has the right to just go build anything on public land.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

who stole the property? from whom?

the people/person/entity that was behind the plans to build ths structure on land that they knew was not theirs, are the people who are theirves

who did they steal it from, could be from an individual, could be from a building society i.e. private lands.. or could be public land..but public land does nto mean any aira ghaira natu khera can go build anything there on a whim

who stole the property? from whom? Should'nt Musharraf save the site of the Mosque?

should he save the site? no, in my view that would be giving a green light to all these chor mullahs that they can build a structure anywhere and the govt would be too scared to challenge these chor ghunda gardee in order to prove their musalmaniyat.

[hareem01]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

hareem01:

I do not know anything that he has made halal that Allah and his prophet has made haram (What I know is that no laws that came in last many years during Musharraf rule, any of them were against Islam. That is news to me that some un-Islamic law has come in Pakistan, may be you know something secret and more aware then me on what is happening in Pakistan :))

[quote[(2) He murderes innocent people.

That is again news to me. Other then cross firing incidence and collateral damages of innocent life, no innocent people were killed during Musharaf rule intentionally, as it was norm before Musharraf when political leaders in power use to kill people just to stay politically strong and Zia (biggest munafiq Pakistan has ever seen) was worse as his reign was full of innocent killings. Z A Bhutto, BB Bhutto and N Shareef were not far behind Zia-ul-haq in killing innocents.

Well, I don’t see that way. Actually this is propaganda of vested interests. If one see history of Pakistan, Pakistan army was fighting for USA during Zia in Afghanistan killing Afghans opposed to American interests, later Pakistan along with CIA help fought NA for Taliban, Now, things are a bit different and those getting effect are shouting foul, nothing important. Those Afghans are use to getting bombed by foreign powers and they are having same. Fortunately, it is not Pakistani air force or army in Afghanistan fighting. Those trouble makers within Pakistan borders, it is obvious that Pakistan have to control them and there is no need to fight USA or others for their crime.

qupte he celebrates ' basant '.
[/quote]

So what? Basant is Pakistan local festival and Islam does not disallow local festivals, as long as there is no elements of worship there. Obviously, no one celebrates basant as religious festival. That is different matter that it is becoming public hazard and thus government has to do something about that.

Again, you are wrong. His government is just demolishing those temples that are illegally built.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm but then .. It seems that you would not understand that mosque cannot be built on stolen lands :)
[/quote]

Ohh you don't know anything Do you?

Alcohal is legal in Pkaistan but according to Quran o sunnah its haram.
Whats happening in baluchistan....people from both sides are dying are muslims include families.
Musharraf is helping America in every way to kill muslims.
'and Islam does not allow local festivals'...it seems you have your own version of Islam.

'They are deaf, dumb and blind, so they could not see.'
Al-Quran

[Sa1eem]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

hareem01:

[quote]
You Know Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) had a beard......Think before you write.
May Allah guide you to the right path.

I can't believe I'm reading a writing of a muslim.
[/quote]
So what? Fraudz only wrote 'weirdo beardos' and was not refering to Prophet (SAW) but those retards that steal lands. As for having beard does not mean that they are pious or one compare them with following Prophet (SAW).

Beard is not symbol of Islam only as people of many religion keep beards, Most noticible and as mandatory part of their religion, only sikhs keep beards.

Actually if you see the religion, percentage wise, more sikhs then muslims keep beard, christian also keep beard and so do jews. So, calling someone beardo .. what big deal about that? Seems these theifs that steal lands are follower of guru nanak and keeping beard following guru nanak then prophet (SAW) as followers of Prophet (SAW) would never steal lands to build temple.

But then, I feel I have to say sorry to sikhs as I believe that even sikh wont like these beardos thiefs to be linked to them :)

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

why are we dragging musharraf or zia in theis thread.

its not a religious issue at all, its a legal issue here, real estate and property law :)

[hareem01]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

well from what I know abu jahal and abu lahab also had beards. The beard itself is not some holy thing. Its the person with the beard that matters.

These guys have beards but they are weirdos, because they are thiefs...or as they are referred to in arabic..haraami.

May Allah guide all of us to the right path

why should a structure on illegal land (whch you refer to as unpaid land) not be demolished. That land could be earmarked for other uses... and even if it was not, no one has the right to just go build anything on public land.

yes, abu jahal and abu lahab did have a beard but not like The Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)[trimmed moustache and grown beard]
Your Arabic is'nt good enough either....
that mosque was there for 60 years and know body knew that the land is unpaid.....and know suddenly they demolished the mosque...how pathetic...

[hareem01]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

hareem01: So what? Fraudz only wrote 'weirdo beardos' and was not refering to Prophet (SAW) but those retards that steal lands. As for having beard does not mean that they are pious or one compare them with following Prophet (SAW).

Beard is not symbol of Islam only as people of many religion keep beards, Most noticible and as mandatory part of their religion, only sikhs keep beards.

Actually if you see the religion, percentage wise, more sikhs then muslims keep beard, christian also keep beard and so do jews. So, calling someone beardo .. what big deal about that? Seems these theifs that steal lands are follower of guru nanak and keeping beard following guru nanak then prophet (SAW) as followers of Prophet (SAW) would never steal lands to build temple.

But then, I feel I have to say sorry to sikhs as I believe that even sikh wont like these beardos thiefs to be linked to them :)

You have no idea what're you talking about....

The pathetic thing is that when a muslim calls other muslim[with islamic beard....trimmed moustache and grown beard] a beardo.... i can see how ignorant that person can be about Prophet Muhammad[pbuh] and His teachings.
Jews grow beard and also grow moustache same as the jews and Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) said: trim your moustache and grow your beard.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

yes, abu jahal and abu lahab did have a beard but not like The Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)[trimmed moustache and grown beard] Your Arabic is'nt good enough either.... that mosque was there for 60 years and know body knew that the land is unpaid.....and know suddenly they demolished the mosque...how pathetic...

okay so if you want to play that game most jewish rabbis at that time had grown beard and trimmed mustaches.

well, not all structures being referred to her ewer ethere for 60 years. and just because earlier either the govts did not take notice of it or did not have the guts to stand up to these chor mullahs, does not mean that it should not be done now.

and yes it is indeed pathetic that the chor mullahs were allowed to occupy that land llegally for 60 years.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

You have no idea what're you talking about....

The pathetic thing is that when a muslim calls other muslim[with islamic beard....trimmed moustache and grown beard] a beardo.... i can see how ignorant that person can be about Prophet Muhammad[pbuh] and His teachings. Jews grow beard and also grow moustache same as the jews and Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) said: trim your moustache and grow your beard.

i did not call just any other bearded muslim a weirdo beardo, but someone who is a chorr, someone who has the audacity to steal land and construct a structure on it and call it a mosque..

such a person is infact a weirdo...

the pathetic thing is when a muslim is going to support theft of land...

[Sa1eem]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

Hareem01:

[quote]
Alcohal is legal in Pkaistan but according to Quran o sunnah its haram.
[/quote]
Alcohol is illegal in Pakistan for Muslims. Seems that you do not know of Pakistani laws. Nevertheless, the law is same as what it was before Musharraf came to power.

[quote]
Whats happening in baluchistan....people from both sides are dying are muslims include families.
[/quote]
Well, some (not all but only few thousands) baloch due to incitement of their local tribal leader (Bugti) acting for his own vested interest started challenging the writ of the country and no country can allow that. They were firing on government buildings and troops, and to give them similar reply was nothing bad. Thus, these revolting people fought and some got killed, what is big deal about that? It was two way fighting and it was those few baloch tribal that started it.

[quote]
Musharraf is helping America in every way to kill muslims.
[/quote]
Well, USA at one time was helping Taliban kill Muslims of NA and Pakistan was helping USA. Now America decided to change side, so Pakistan changed side with USA. What is big deal? Siding with retarded Taliban that were killing Muslims was same as siding with present rulers killing Talibans. Actually, in past Pakistan army was fighting along with Taliban and now Pakistan is paying badly for that. I wish that Pakistan should have stayed neutral always.

[quote]

'and Islam does not allow local festivals'...it seems you have your own version of Islam.
[/quote]
Who told you that? Throughout history of Islam, local festivals were allowed as long as it is not done as part of Islamic duty. Go and read history and Islam.

Actually if you will read hadith, you will read a story when there were some Arab slaves performing and singing and Aisha (RA) wanted to watch, that Prophet (SAW) allowed. It is obvious that watching such performance is part of participating in the festival. The festival was pre-Islamic local festival of kuffars and Prophet (SAW) allowed to watch and thus participate in it, so why it is such taboo now? [Actually, only ignorance is the cause of all this fuss].

[hareem01]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

Going back to the issue ... A masjid is a house of Allah, to say they are temples, or illegal structures is not the issue. The issue is demolision of a masjid is not the only resort in the case of disputed land. There are other avenues that can be pursued. Any good Muslim leader would employ those avenues first.
So what are those avenues?: Reclaim the deeds of the disputed land, and resell them on condition that the masajid remain where they are. The original owners if found would have to be given residential and ownership rights to the homes developed in the vicinity of the masajid. However, demolision should not be the method of choice for such situations. I can see the only scenario where it would be correct to do this, would be if both conditions are true, in addition to being built on disputed land:
1) The masajid are not being used regularly
2) They are old and unsafe

Only where these three conditions are met should a masjid be taken down, and it becomes the responsibility of the government who is doing this to replace or publish a report for the benefit of it's Muslim populous as of the decision it has HAD to make. Otherwise the context as in the Qur'an is a clear as water. You can like that or lump it.

We should look at the purpose of life rather than the material nature of it. As for Zalimun building masajid that is new to me, I wonder which characteristic from Zalimun in the Qur'an you can show me that comes from.

As for local festivals, only if those festivals are non-religious can they be allowed to continue, and if their fitnah is not overbearing. Basant is a killer festival as we all know, and for what end? Just kites?

As for countries that have differing laws for one populous and other laws for others, this is a recipe of disaster. Can you show me Sa1eem which law is it that splits Muslims and non-Muslims up in that way? I will hold you to this, I want to see the law itself.

Mr Pir Sahib Fraudia you should know better! When we discuss an issue let's go to specific cases. If there is a specific case you can identify which fulfil the conditions above, then we can talk and agree, until then playing the devil's advocate does you no favours. As a general rule Muslims should preserve all things Islamic, that is all I am saying.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

Going back to the issue ... A masjid is a house of Allah, to say they are temples, or illegal structures is not the issue. The issue is demolision of a masjid is not the only resort in the case of disputed land. There are other avenues that can be pursued. Any good Muslim leader would employ those avenues first. So what are those avenues?: Reclaim the deeds of the disputed land, and resell them on condition that the masajid remain where they are. The original owners if found would have to be given residential and ownership rights to the homes developed in the vicinity of the masajid. However, demolision should not be the method of choice for such situations. I can see the only scenario where it would be correct to do this, would be if both conditions are true, in addition to being built on disputed land: 1) The masajid are not being used regularly 2) They are old and unsafe

You may be coming up with preferred methods based on your perspective, but one can not argue that what the govt is doing is wrong. What theya re doing is right. can they do better..maybe, maybe not.

Personally if some jackass decided to build anything on my land, panshop, hotel, whatever..they are breaking the law, and I would want them out.

Only where these three conditions are met should a masjid be taken down, and it becomes the responsibility of the government who is doing this to replace or publish a report for the benefit of it's Muslim populous as of the decision it has HAD to make. Otherwise the context as in the Qur'an is a clear as water. You can like that or lump it.

these only three conditions are from where, what is the precedence?

We should look at the purpose of life rather than the material nature of it. As for Zalimun building masajid that is new to me, I wonder which characteristic from Zalimun in the Qur'an you can show me that comes from.

forget material nature of life, that is not even the point. This is a simple real estate and property law issue. tomorrow if some mullah steals your car and starts using it for masjid related transportation, or steals your ac because he wants to put it in the masjid office, would that be right?

Mr Pir Sahib Fraudia you should know better! When we discuss an issue let's go to specific cases. If there is a specific case you can identify which fulfil the conditions above, then we can talk and agree, until then playing the devil's advocate does you no favours. As a general rule Muslims should preserve all things Islamic, that is all I am saying.

what specific case do you have? bring it, and lets discuss it then. until then I suppose you will be following your own advise and not talk?

I am not playing devil's advocate here. I am talking about law and justice. I am not goign to bother to find a specific case which meets 'your' conditions, because I dont agree with your conditions. To me an illegally constructed structure should be torn down.

If you can prove that these buildings are not on illegaly occupied land, then I am more than appy to back off, while maintaining that even in those cases a govt has teh right of eminent domain but the bar to employ that needs to be set high.

[hareem01]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

well, when i'll go to pakistan , i'll look for the proves.....

[Light_Bearer]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

@hareem01

So what are those avenues?: Reclaim the deeds of the disputed land, and resell them on condition that the masajid remain where they are. The original owners if found would have to be given residential and ownership rights to the homes developed in the vicinity of the masajid.

Let’s say for the sake of argument the land belongs to me, and I don’t want to sell it and I want to open a golf course on the same space. Would you think I will be in my rights to ask for my land to be given back to me by any means.

[Light_Bearer]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

As a general rule Muslims should preserve all things Islamic, that is all I am saying.

Even made on stolen land which is a haram act to start with?

[Light_Bearer]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

I really can't believe this mentallity that the bierdos cannot do anything wrong. Madam aap ko pata nahin hai daarhi ki aaR mein kiya kiya hota hai.

[hareem01]

Re: Musharaf Buildozing Mosques in Islamabad

@Light_Bearer

Let’s say for the sake of argument the land belongs to me, and I don’t want to sell it and I want to open a golf course on the same space. Would you think I will be in my rights to ask for my land to be given back to me by any means.

yes