Cant post a single thread without it being eaten up by stupid fights

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Hey guys... just a few questions.. hopefully you'll be able to provide some clarity..

Muzna.. you wrote...
**
We were taught that standing while offering "salam" is bidat because we are in fact, providing more respect to Mohammed pbuh, than to Allah (God forbid).
**

As far as I know and have been taught, only SAJDAH, prostration, is for Allah Taala, it is forbidden for anyone to prostrate infront of anything/anyone other than Allah.

People stand in order to perform Salaam, it is because its a sign of respect (NOT worship)

Al-A'raf (The Heights)7:206
Those who are near to thy Lord, disdain not to do Him worship: They celebrate His praises, and bow down before Him.

No where in the Holy Quran is it mentioned that you cannot Stand in order to show respect. Whenever worship of Allah Taala has been mentioned the word Prostrate (Sajdah) is also mentioned.

Blackzero.. you wrote..
**
the main problem i know some people have had is with the play by people that the prophet is present amongst them during milad..
has the prophet reached the same states as allah that he can be everywhere and listen to everything? - considering there are millions of places the milad is held.
**

do you believe that the Holy Prophet (SAW) will be presented to you in your grave and you will be asked 'What do you know of this man' ?/B}.. If the answer is **YES then tell me brother, what happened to all the muslims who died during the time of the prophet (SAW) ?. How was it possible that the prophet(SAW) was with the living and also present in the grave with those who had died ??

in a rush at the mo... will get back to you on this a bit later..

Death is only the Beginning.

22

**Making something PART OF religion of Islam, which was never practiced by Mohammad or his sahaaba as the part of Islam is bid’ah and should not be done. **

This who being present in grave and that is just non-sense.

partyP, your post did not had any references brother. Singiing songs and praising the god with songs is way of christians, and Allah and his Messenger said, not to imitate or copy the disbelievers.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Take it easy.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

23

.

Death is only the Beginning.

24

Watcher..

**
Making something PART OF religion of Islam, which was never practiced by Mohammad or his sahaaba as the part of Islam is bid'ah and should not be done.
**

this is the response I got from a scholar (I apologise for its length but if you want proof then read the following) .. oh by the way the site was www.dawateislami.net

Once you digest this I will reply to you regarding the 3 questions you Will be asked in the grave (as they do not concern this thread I will omit them for the time being)

Anchal... sorry sis, I'll do my best NOT to make this into a mud-slinging match but the following answer will hopefully also be benificial to you and maybe answer any questions you may have regarding Milad-un-nabi(saw)

**
Question:
**

Please give me the evidence about Eid-e-Milad-un-Nabi in the light of Quran & Ahadith.

**
Answer.
**

Before writing the arguments of Eid Milad-un-Nabi (Allah's Grace & Peace be upon Him), I want to clear the meaning of
Milad according to literature and shariah.

The word Milad has been derived from "viladut" which means birth. Therefore, according to Arabic language, milad is word
which signifies the place and time of birth. In the light of shariah, we means, Milad is to remember the events which took place
at the birth time of the Holy Prophet (Allah's Grace & Peace be upon Him) and we get the opportunity of narrating the seerat
of the Prophet (Allah's Grace & Peace be upon Him) on this occasion, we also present the Holy Prophet (Allah's Grace &
Peace be upon Him) gifts of durood -o- salam. We mention before the people attributes and praises of the Prophet (Allah's
Grace & Peace be upon Him).

Evidence of the Holy Quran
The Quranic verses prove that to celebrate Milad is not only a proper deed but it is also a praiseworthy.

1) Allah Almighty says in Quran:

"The peace is on Him the day when he was born and the day when he will die and the day when he will be raised alive."
(Kanzul Iman the translation of Holy Quran, Sura Al-Maryam, Verse 15)

In the above verse Allah Almighty has mentioned the complete Milad of Hazrat Yahya (Alhis Salam). And before this Allah
Almighty has mentioned the events which took place before the birth. It is the same way of celebrating birth day as ahle sunnat
adopts for the Milad of the last Prophet (Allah's Grace & Peace be upon Him) of Allah Almighty. In other words the Prophet
of Allah Almighty Hazrat Isa (Alahis Salam) celebrate his own milad.

2) As Allah Almighty says:

"And the same peace on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I would raised alive."
(Kanzul Iman the translation of Holy Quran, Sura Al Maryum , Verse 33)

Before this verse Allah Almighty has stated the whole story of Maryum (Allah may pleased with him) that who she got pregnant
and gave birth her great son, the Prophet of Allah Isa (Alihis Salam). Allah Almighty also mentioned the words of Isa (Alaihis
Salam) by which Isa (Alaihis Salam) praised himself. This style of narrating story is nothing but celebration of Milad of Isa
Alaihis Salam. Ahle Sunnat also narrate the story of Holy Prophet Muhammad (Allah's Grace & Peace be upon Him) in the
same style. We too narrate the events which took place before the birth and after it as Allah Almighty narrated about Yahya
and Isa (Alaihimus Salam). Therefore, a person who has eyes of justice, will obviously accept that to celebrate Milad is an
important deed which Allah Almighty has done. So it proves that the bases of Milad is found in the Holy Quran.

3) Allah Almighty says:

"And remind them of the days of the Allah."
(Kanzul Iman the translation of Holy Quran, Sura Ibrahim, Verse5)

In this verse Allah Almighty orders his prophet Musa Alahis Salam to remind his nation the days of Allah Almighty. "The days
of Allah" are those days in which great events took place or Allah Almighty bestowed his great rewards to his creature. As the
Holy Quran testifies this explanation of the days of Allah Almighty. In the Holy Quran Musa Alaihis Salam says:

"And when Musa said it his people remember Allah's favor upon you, when he delivered you from Firawn's people who used
to afflict you worsly, and slaughter your sons and let your daughters live and in it there was shown great mercy of your lord."
(Kanzul Iman the translation of Holy Quran, Sura Ibrahim , Verse 6 )

According to the Quranic verse emancipation of the nation of Musa Alaihis Salam from Firawn is a day of Allah, so the birth
day of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (Allah's Grace & Peace be upon Him) is, with any doubt, also a day of Allah, because the
Prophet Muhammad (Allah's Grace & Peace be upon Him) emancipated whole world from the darkness of ignorance and
brought them to the light of guidance. Therefore, the birthday (Milad) of the Holy Prophet (Allah's Grace & Peace be upon
Him) deserves to be celebrated then the celebration of any other event. In case we would not be grateful to Allah Almighty for
his favor, that is Muhammad (Allah's Grace & Peace be upon Him). He will punish us severely . As Allah Almighty says :

"And remember when your lord proclaimed, if you will be great full then I shall give you more and if your thankless then my
treatment is severe."
(Kanzul Iman the translation of Holy Quran, Sura Ibrahim , Verse 7 )

4) Allah Almighty says :
"Then remember the bounties of Allah and wander not in the earth spreading mischief."
(Kanzul Iman the translation of Holy Quran, Sura Araf , Verse 74 )

In the above verse Allah Almighty orders us to remember his bounties and rewards. The last Prophet of Allah Almighty
Muhammad (Allah's Grace & Peace be upon Him) is, undoubtedly, great blessing of Allah Almighty for whole mankind. Allah
Almighty himself considers the Prophet (Allah's Grace and Peace be upon him) his great favor for mankind as He says

"Undoubtedly, Allah did a great favor to the Muslims that in them from among themselves sent a messenger who recites unto
them His signs and purifies them and teaches them the book and wisdom and necessarily before that they were certainly
apparent error.
(Kanzul Iman the translation of Holy Quran, Sura Ale Imran , Verse 164)

Therefor, according to the Quranic commandments we must remember the beloved Prophet of Allah Muhammad (Allah's
Grace & Peace be upon Him) and Milad-un-Nabi is a best way of remembrance of the greatest Prophet (Allahs Grace and
Peace be upon him).
In another words Allah Almighty says:

"And publicize well the favor of your lord"
(Kanzul Iman the translation of Holy Quran, Sura Al Duha , Verse 11)

The companion of the Holy Prophet (Allahs Grace and Peace be upon him) Hazrat Abdullah Ibne Abbas (Allah is well pleased
with Him ) explained the word favors. He says here, In this verse favor signifies the prophet hood and Islam.
(Tafseer Ibne Abbas, Sure Al Duha, Page 651).

So in the light of the given explanation by the cousin of the Holy Prophet (Allah's Grace and Peace be upon him), we can say
that Allah Almighty orders us to remember Holy Prophet (Allah's Grace and Peace be upon him) in our gatherings between the
people, in our mosque between the worshiper and in our houses between our families and Milad un Nabi (Allahs Grace and
Peace be upon him), as I have written is a best way for this quranic purpose.

4) Allah Almighty orders us :
"Say you oly Allah's grace and his mercy, on it therefore let them rejoice. That is better then all their wealth."

In this verse Allah Almighty orders us to enjoy on his grace and mercy. If we see around us we find that each favor of Allah
Almighty is great mercy for us. Even our existence is also a mercy of Allah Almighty. But the greatest of Allah is the Holy
Prophet (Allah's Grace and Peace be upon him). As Allah Almighty says:

"And we sent not you but mercy for all world."
(Kanzul Iman the translation of Holy Quran, Sura Al Ambia , Verse 107)

So according the Quranic teachings it is necessary for us that ewe must be happy and pleased on the birthday of the Holy
Prophet (Allah's Grace and Peace be upon him). The one who pleases with the Holy Prophet (Allah's Grace and Peace be
upon him) is really a true follower of the Quran. And it is obvious that, in whole world Muslims celebrates Milad un Nabi
(Allah's Grace and Peace be upon him). Specially for enjoying the mercy of Allah Almighty that is the beloved prophet of Allah
Almighty (Allah's Grace and Peace be upon him)Therefore the Holy Quran itself confirms the Milad un Nabi (Allah's Grace and
Peace be upon him)

5) The gathering of Milad un Nabi (Allah's Grace and Peace be upon him) incite Muslims on saying durood and Salam ( to
pray for prophet (Allah's Grace and Peace be upon him) of blessing and peace) Allah Almighty says:

"Oh you who I believe send upon Him blessing and salute Him fully well in abundance. (Kanzul Iman the translation of Holy
Quran, Sura Al Ahzab , Verse 56)

According to the law of shariah, a thing which is desired by shariah, is exactly a like an aim of shariah. And the benifit of durood
-o- salam are so much in numbers that can not be counted. Durood -o- salam causes for the help of Allah Almighty in this
world and here after. So milad un Nabi (Allah's Grace & Peace be upon Him) is a source of fulfilling the commandments of
Allah Almighty

6) Allah Almighty says:

"And all that we narrate to you of the tidings of the messengers is for the purpose of strengthening your heart therewith."
(Kanzul Iman the translation of Holy Quran, Sura Hood, Verse 121)

This Quranic verse reveals that the wisdom of mentioning the stories and events of Prophets (Alaihis salam) was to stand fast
the heart of the last prophet (Allah's Grace and Peace be upon him). And it is obvious that we are, also today, in need of being
stand fast. We must know that how, the prophet of Allah (Allah's Grace and Peace be upon him) faced the problems of his
time so that we may face the problems of our times according to the Sunnah. Therefore Milad un Nabi (Allah's Grace and
Peace be upon him) provides us an opportunity to know about the affair of the Prophet (Allah's Grace and Peace be upon
him).

Death is only the Beginning.

25

regarding celebrating Milad-un-nabi(saw) and sending praises onto the Holy Prophet (saw).. please refer to the following passage from the holy Quran

**
surah al-ahzab verse 56

translations as follows

033.056
YUSUFALI: Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect.

PICKTHAL: Lo! Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with a worthy salutation.

SHAKIR: Surely Allah and His angels bless the Prophet; O you who believe! call for (Divine) blessings on him and salute him with a (becoming) salutation.
**

Death is only the Beginning.

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Arch Angel this Ayat refers to Darood.Every muslim sends darood on the nabi(saw).

27

[quote]
Originally posted by Arch-Angel:
*Blackzero.. you wrote..
*
the main problem i know some people have had is with the play by people that the prophet is present amongst them during milad..
has the prophet reached the same states as allah that he can be everywhere and listen to everything? - considering there are millions of places the milad is held.
**

do you believe that the Holy Prophet (SAW) will be presented to you in your grave and you will be asked **'What do you know of this man' ?

I definately hold no such belief.. I will be asked in the grave
1. who is your god
2. what is your religion
3. who is your prophet.

There is no way I will be able to identify prophet Muhammad- as I have never laid my eyes on him (how lucky i would have been if I had)

these questions fair ..
For we are followers of the religion of Abraham (pbuh) and Muhammad (saw)

The true followers of Abraham would have no clue who Muhammad (saw) was.

I am searching for references on what will happen in the grave and will post them later.

28

BlackZero,

Yaar about the last question, from what I know, it is not Who is your prophet ?,
What will actually happen is that the Holy Prophet (SAW) will appear before you and the you will be asked ** What can you tell us about this Person ?**.. As you correctly mentioned that as we haven't seen the blessed Prophet (saw) we will not be able to identify him, but during this questioning in the grave, those with Imaan will begin to recite Darrod-Shareef and those without imaan will have nothing to say.. I too will look for more details of the questioning which will take place in the grave.

With respect to Anchal I think one of us should start another thread on this matter since the topic is about Milaad-un-nabi (saw).

Death is only the Beginning.

29

arch angel i didnt get to read all of ur post..but u are saying its praisworthy to do milad right? and its in Quran
thats what ur scholer said right? before u put the whole thing here just tell us the summary in the beginning also

30

anchal baji sticking with the topic of ur post

i think u r forgettin that its a desi site n desis tend to do this.

31

Read and think about my post quoted above!!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

32

**
Originally posted by The Watcher:

If birthday of MOhammad was so important to him and sahabah, why didn’t they started the Islamic year from the birthdate of Mohammad, like Christians have for Jesus?
**

Watcher…

you keep posting this as if it has some relevence to Milaad-un-Nabi(saw)…it has none… going by this analogy, Why doesn’t the Islamic year start with the Month Ramadan when the Holy Quran was revealed ?? or the date when the Holy Prophet (saw) declared his prophethodd at the age of 40 ??. You are taking this thread to areas where it doesn’t belong.

Basically, it comes down to this… You see every inovation as Bida’h because it wasn’t practiced by the holy Prophet (saw) and thus it must be wrong. I on the other hand, look at every action with reference to the Holy Quran and Sunnah. If it doesn’t conflict with either of these then as far as MY belief goes, it’s OK.

The celebrations of Milaad-un-Nabi (saw) that I have been to are usually held in a Mosque. We have great Aalims and scholars from all over the country and sometimes from other parts of the world. In the gathering we listen to recitations from the Holy Quran and we collectively send Darood_shareef (peace & blessings) on to the Holy Prophet(saw). At the end we collectivley pray (Du’a) for the well being of every Muslim.

Now, I don’t know about you, but to me, that doesn’t sound like a major sin !.

However, at the end of the day, to you be your beliefs and to me, be mine. If any of us are wrong, May Allah forgive us (aameen).

If you wish to make further additions to this thread, that is upto you, but as far as I’m concerned there is nothing more to say. There is nothing you can post or say that will convince me that celebrating the Holy Prophets (saw) milaad is a sin and I’m sure there is nothing I can say that will convince you otherwise.

Ramadan Mubarak to you and all brothers & sisters on Gupshup

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Death is only the Beginning.

33

Arch Angel:

I think what you wrote was very nice.

What we must always remember is that we can not bulldoze our opinions and our beliefs on other people. We can present our view-point as clearly as we can, and then hope and pray to Allah for the best possible guidance.

We pray that if we are wrong, then may Allah guide us to the right path. And if the other person is wrong, may Allah open his heart so that he understands the truth and be successfull in this life and hereafter.

I can be wrong, you can be wrong, or anyone else can be wrong. This possibility should always push us to the path of knowledge and truth. I would suggest that those who are presenting differing view points on this issue, take a step back. Each of you, have presented your view points. I believe this has been an excellent debate. Right or wrong, scholarly opinions were presented.

Each of the participants here is educated and mature enough to form their own opinion. Neither should we be judgemental to call the differing opinions as heretics nor should we rush to condemn these differences. That we stated our opinion to the best of our ability should be sufficient for our peace of minds.

34

let the malakhra commence...

it did in a post asking for no more fighting..

what does it tell us about ourselves..

35

When you make something part of a religion of Islam which was not practiced by Mohammad, its bid'ah.

We are not talking about doing good or bad. Good and bad has been defined in quran and sunnah. Religion of Islam is complete, it does not need milad to be completed. We should not make milad a PART of Islam.

Besides, birth of prophet is not known for sure, but his death is. We should try to follow what he left behind, and follow his footsteps to janaat and not creat new things in Islam.

Real show of love comes, when you follow his sunnah and his footsteps, that is real show of love and not creating new non-sense in religion and declaring them "good" thing.

This singing and praising and is a way of worhip for christians. ALlah asks us in quran not to imitate the non-muslim they are our enemies.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

36

[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**When you make something part of a religion of Islam which was not practiced by Mohammad, its bid'ah.

We are not talking about doing good or bad. Good and bad has been defined in quran and sunnah. Religion of Islam is complete, it does not need milad to be completed. We should not make milad a PART of Islam.

Besides, birth of prophet is not known for sure, but his death is. We should try to follow what he left behind, and follow his footsteps to janaat and not creat new things in Islam.

Real show of love comes, when you follow his sunnah and his footsteps, that is real show of love and not creating new non-sense in religion and declaring them "good" thing.

This singing and praising and is a way of worhip for christians. ALlah asks us in quran not to imitate the non-muslim they are our enemies.

**
[/quote]

can any of my sunni brothers tell watcher that 2nd khalifa added onto fagar Azaan

"Prayer is a shield for the believer. When you knock on the door repeatedly it is sure to be opened for you. - Imam Ali (as)"

"..Say (O' Muhammad unto mankind): I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my relatives(Ahlul-Bayt)"Holy Quran(42:23)

(after his last pilgrimage) the Holy Prophet (saw) stood to give us a speech beside a pond which is known as Ghadir Khum & said,"I am leaving for you 2 precious things.First of them is the book of Allah in which there is light & guidance...
The other one is my Ahlul-Bayt.
I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt.(3 times)Sahih Muslim,Chapter of the virtues of the companions, section of the virtues of Ali,1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version,v4,p1873,Tradition #36.
Then the Prophet held up the hand of Ali and said:"Whoever I am his leader,Ali
is his leader.O God,love those who love him,& be hostile to those who are hostile to him."(Sunni hadith:
Sahih Tirmidhi,v2,p298)
The Prophet said to Ali:"Glad tiding O Ali!Verily you & your companions & your Shia followers will be in Paradise."Sunni hadith:Hilyatul Awliyaa,v4,p3

37

Sherazs says: *"can any of my sunni brothers tell watcher that 2nd khalifa added onto fagar Azaan"*

Rationally speaking, even if it has been added later on, I don’t find anything shameful in it.

If I may ask you over here, does the fajr adhan looses it meaning by adding the statement “as salat to khair num minan naum”? the answer is simply NO. It’s a call for early hour prayer, amended according to the human desire. It’s an inborn human nature to prefer deep slumber at that time than to wake up and pray.

Sherazz your opinion about biddah is totally wrong. You are trying to drag nonsense issue in the debate.

Please refrain and be relevant.

38

Pray to Allah "if we are wrong, then may Allah guide us to the right path. And if the other person is wrong, may Allah open his heart so that he understands the truth and be successfull in this life and hereafter".

aameen

39

Sherazz, you keep on bragging about azan, yet you fail to present any references about it. I asked you before, but you gave me hadiths about taraveee namaaz instead of azan.

I think, its better if we stop this sunni-shia non-sense. Its Ramadan and does not make any of us look good, you know. I hope you understand.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

40

mr zalim i thought it was really obvious what my point was..watcher said wether its good or bad if its added then its bidah..so i just told him that 2nd khalifa added somthing in azan..so he did bidat and he is wrong..u get my point now?

"Prayer is a shield for the believer. When you knock on the door repeatedly it is sure to be opened for you. - Imam Ali (as)"

"..Say (O' Muhammad unto mankind): I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my relatives(Ahlul-Bayt)"Holy Quran(42:23)

(after his last pilgrimage) the Holy Prophet (saw) stood to give us a speech beside a pond which is known as Ghadir Khum & said,"I am leaving for you 2 precious things.First of them is the book of Allah in which there is light & guidance...
The other one is my Ahlul-Bayt.
I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt.(3 times)Sahih Muslim,Chapter of the virtues of the companions, section of the virtues of Ali,1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version,v4,p1873,Tradition #36.
Then the Prophet held up the hand of Ali and said:"Whoever I am his leader,Ali
is his leader.O God,love those who love him,& be hostile to those who are hostile to him."(Sunni hadith:
Sahih Tirmidhi,v2,p298)
The Prophet said to Ali:"Glad tiding O Ali!Verily you & your companions & your Shia followers will be in Paradise."Sunni hadith:Hilyatul Awliyaa,v4,p3