can Qadianis answer?

[QUOTE]
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS)'s truthfulness is at the moment out of side. His truthfulness can easily be shown and how Allah has helped him in all His life. As I earlier said, without discussion on other matters of Islam, you will always keep pointing finger at Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS), the Promised Messiah and the Imam Mahdi (AS).
[/QUOTE]

This is funny indeed, God you mean the British, the real gods of Mirza?
It seems you have already given up defending Mirza. What kind of truthfulness is that it has to rely on lies? What kind of truthfulness is that lies can be proven against the Quran and you still have no answers or clear Mirza of his heresy against the Holy Quran and Allah SWT? What kind of truthfulness is that Allah SWT clearly decreed that being a Sadiq is first condition for the believers, and Mirza did nothing but lied all his life, even he attributed white lies to the Holy Quran.

Alas, the followers are clueless how to defend Mirza.

[QUOTE]
Next time when you reply me, I want you to quote me so that I know to which part of my post are you replying to.
[/QUOTE]
Check my last posts, I have always quoted your paragraph and then given my answers. Any how, if you can not defend Mirza on the topics under discussion on this thread then it is your prerogatives, I have done my job and I am moving on to open a new thread. Feel free to write if you wish to clear Mirza on this thread. Otherwise there is no point to write, you have failed to put any defense for Mirza.

Re: can Qadianis answer?

Mr. skunk, your rambling posts do not deserve any response. With all the baseless accusations, insults and hatred you're trying to heap on the Ahmadis, whose sunnah are you really following? Surely, it is not the sunnah of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (SAW), but rather that of his opponents.

Initially, I thought you were doing this in the mistaken belief that denigrating your opponents and their religious leaders would somehow be a great service to Islam, but it has become increasingly clear that your sole purpose is to incite hatred. While you have the right to call yourself a Muslim, your conduct is certainly unbecoming of one.

If there was internet 1400 years ago, Abu Jahal would surely have had a blog too.

Re: can Qadianis answer?

^^hahahaha...Abu Jahl part was good one...lolz

[quote]

I am just amazed that you have disowned your own Jamat and Mirza. My dear, I only quote genuine writings of Mirza and others from your Jamat. That’s why instead of giving the reference, I first post the original and then include the translation from me or in case of tadkirah, your official translation for the Urdu writings of Mirza. There is absolutely no chance of anyone accusing me of misquotations.

[/quote]

When you make a claim or boast that I have proved this and that, you need to build your case and provide citations. How do we know where did you get those cuttings or your assertions. Your refusal to provide references show that you want others not to contest your claims and want them to accept them as is.
Try writing some professinal paper and let me know if it was published in a journal of repute without citations. They will throw away your 'paper' in the trash can without fail. Your rambling and musings carry no weight whatsoever.

[quote]

My dear, once again, I am conveying you true beliefs of your Jamat, from the writings of Mirza. If you are trying to disown the writings of Mirza then what I can say?Fact of the matter is, disagreement is fine, but you should be able to effectively defend what Mirza wrote. But unfortunately I have not seen one Qadiani who could defend one aspect from the writings of Mirza.

[/quote]

I am not owning or disowning anything. I need to know where did you get those excerpts and what was the context in which certain things were said. BTW, why do you dread providing references? In many cases you just depend on your assertions and don't provide any proof and finally claim that you have proved something. Man, pls come out of the utopia of self-righteouness.

[QUOTE]

Mr. skunk, your rambling posts do not deserve any response. With all the baseless accusations, insults and hatred you're trying to heap on the Ahmadis, whose sunnah are you really following? Surely, it is not the sunnah of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (SAW), but rather that of his opponents.

[/QUOTE]

Mr. Brahamcharia99,

Off course I am not following the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad SAW. But why do you object, this is surely the Sunnah of your false Prophet, i.e Mirza. He has hurl abuse even at a mighty Messenger of Allah SWT, ISA AS. Another proof that he was nothing likes Prophet Muhammad SAW, which he so claimed.

I on the contrary did not use any derogatory remarks for Mirza but just stated the facts, on the basis of his own writings.

[QUOTE]

but it has become increasingly clear that your sole purpose is to incite hatred.

[/QUOTE]

This is as daft it can be, show me where I have shown hatred? Calling a spade a spade is not wrong. Secondly, read Mirza’s writings and your Ka-lip II writings, they have called all the Muslims who do not believe on Mirza’s lies as Kaffir. I can provide the evidence if you ever so wish.
Don’t you think I have a right to defend myself? And show the true colors of Mirza. All of you are struggling to clear his name, and prove that he was even remotely Muslim. Where are all those empty slogans of “true Muslims” and “true Islam”?

[QUOTE]

If there was internet 1400 years ago, Abu Jahal would surely have had a blog too.

[/QUOTE]

You guys are so predictable, why you have similar sound bites, Abu Jahal, Jews, etc.etc. Read the writings of Mirza; see the evidence produced by me, and judge for yourself who is the real Abu Jahal. Let’s face it, despite grand claims, none of you could deny the evidence and clear Mirza. End of the story.

Re: can Qadianis answer?

acha yaar chal abb warm up hona choro....bolo kia bolna hai....2 page khatam ho gai koi bandook nahin chali...koi bomb nahin phata...pataakha bhi chalne ki awaaz nahin ai....

mien rozz wait karta hoon aaj ye banda koi nuclear bomb chalaaye ga...aaj ...aaj... par yaar kuch ho hi nahin raha....

ooper se tareefon ke pul baandhe jaa rahe hian... blog ki tareefien...apni tareefien...yaar kuch post bhi to karo...chalo mien reply na bhi karoon ye baaki logg bethe hian...inse hi do do haath kar lo...

abb aapne ooper waali post mien end of story likh dia hai matlab aabb iss thread ko band kar dia jaye ya abhi kahaani ghar ghar ki agli kist shuroo ho gi?

[QUOTE]
When you make a claim or boast that I have proved this and that, you need to build your case and provide citations.
[/QUOTE]

KCChugtai;

This is extremely funny; where did you go for your eye test? You should have gone to the Specsavers. It seems you desperately need one, I mean the eye test, you read the articles and miss all the citations. Wow, hurry up before you hit a lamp post and injure yourself.

[QUOTE]

Your refusal to provide references show that you want others not to contest your claims and want them to accept them as is.

[/QUOTE]

God, any excuse will do, isn’t it? I give you examples in “Mirza a false Prophet” first quotation is from Ka-Lip II tafsir, look at the tafsir for Surah 21:58 and you will find it,
2- References from Badar are printed on the evidence displayed for “Wahdaniat”.
3- Mirza’s false claims, it is written on the scan itself, Arabeen 4 P 468/469.
4- Share in the verse for Cutting vein, it is from tadkirah, even Tadkirah give the reference from Arabeen 2 and RK 17 P436-437.
5- Next quote is from Zamima of TG
6- Claimants names are from the article “Concept of revelations in Islam”.

So on and on, but alas, you find it no reference. How you can deny the fact that this is the writings of Mirza? I challenge any Qadiani to prove my quotes are not genuine,

I suggest you get a life. You are just clueless to defend Mirza. But don’t worry, I am not taking it as your personal shortcoming; none amongst you Qadiani had or would answer the questions and clear Mirza. So you are not the odd one out. Try harder next time.

I don’t write the citation at the end of the Article, because Proofs are already displayed, with most with page numbers, and I usually give the name of the book too. Lame excuses wouldn’t work. Search the evidence and you will find it in the books of Mirza, don’t ask me to do your job. That’s why I produce the evidence first in black and white, so you can not claim it is not the word of Mirza or the context, because the pages are displayed, which surely show the context in which they are written. I have not picked up sentences out of nowhere; I do translation of whole of the paragraphs.

Find some other excuses for your shortcomings to clear Mirza.

[QUOTE]

acha yaar chal abb warm up hona choro....bolo kia bolna hai....2 page khatam ho gai koi bandook nahin chali...koi bomb nahin phata...pataakha bhi chalne ki awaaz nahin ai....
mien rozz wait karta hoon aaj ye banda koi nuclear bomb chalaaye ga...aaj ...aaj... par yaar kuch ho hi nahin raha....

[/QUOTE]

hmm, you read the articles and you still waiting for some actions? Good, keep waiting, I have already thrown the guntlett in my articles, I do not need to write anything further on the topics of this thread, except respond back to your twiddle twaddle.
So, since when your impotency to defend Mirza is my fault? Start defending him and I will respond in kind.

[QUOTE]

ooper se tareefon ke pul baandhe jaa rahe hian... blog ki tareefien...apni tareefien...yaar kuch post bhi to karo...chalo mien reply na bhi karoon ye baaki logg bethe hian...inse hi do do haath kar lo...

[/QUOTE]

Ha ha ha, once again, why would their shortcomings be a problem for me? When they bring something on the table they will get the answers, like Mr. Popat did when he tried to quote some Quranic verses.

I suggest you get busy. But come to think of it, why would you jump in to the fry pen, you got your Ramadan excuse going, you know what I mean? Heheheheheh.

I did give the advice, I know your standard responses, I know your pet topics, I know the sources you have available in your pocket books, I know the writings of Mirza and your cult.

Try you must, fail, you will surely.

Re: can Qadianis answer?

lol...mate...I am not any excuse....i said I dont have time for spending endless time as is erquired for researching material....

is your Urdu weak?....mien Urdu mien sawaal karta hoon aap English mien reply...starting to wonder whether you even get I am saying!!!

So as far as the excuse is converned then hit the search button and type in Allegations against Ahmeddiya and you will find my thread. And to be frank the research takes time as you are well aware. Sometime it take me week to gather a reply.

whoever you are.. I have been quite calm in this discussion thus far. But you know wat? you need to change ur tone on this thread regarding the Ahmadiyya jamaat ( dont even care who the heck Qadianis are in ur dictionary ). You say you gave me reply when i quoted a Quranic verse. Why is it that we both are reading from same book (Quran) yet your understanding is completely different than mine ?

My self respect is much more important to me than to answer a kid like you. You have insulted Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) enough. The way you respond shows a lot about your own character.

Dont even accuse me of not reading Quran. You may have read it thousands of time and completely neglect the meaning of it, while me reading it ONLY ONCE was more than enough for me ( though i read it many many times ).

You know what the problem of ur this thread is? its all over the place. You should have quoted one thing at a time from your blong, and before bringing anything else up, that first thing needs to be cleared up first.

2 pages done, nothing have been discussed. This should not be taken as weak point for us. Thing with me is, I do not know where to answer you ... and to wat question of yours?

[2:7] Those who have disbelieved — it being equal to them whether thou warn them or warn them not — they will not believe.

Re: can Qadianis answer?

Ditto Popat...

the chap is so unpredictable....even myself I have been very friendly with him but no chance...too unpredictable.

Thats what I told him in beggining to start giving respect to others and their religious figures to have a humble environment which would actually reflect true Islamic teachings. But he has only one motive I am right you are wrong, I am best you are worst etc etc

Re: can Qadianis answer?

Auslamo Elikum to Every one

Ramzanul Mabark ka last Ashra shur hai dua hai ke Allah Tallah ham sab ko iska bharpur tou main faida utthane ki toufique ata farmae Ameen.

Bhai Crank ne tou END OF STORY kar diya hai........................ ab wo kisi aur Fourm pe bade fakhr se ek aur VICTORY ka izafa kar ke apna bhi aur doosron ka time bhi zaiya karen ge ;) ... unko ek advice hai ke jab bhi koi question karna hou tou to the point question karen aur ek time pe ek ya dou sawal rakhen DOZENS questions aur wo bhi long details ke sath without proper quotes time waiste karne ki bat hai jesa abhi ho raha hai...

[QUOTE]
whoever you are.. I have been quite calm in this discussion thus far. But you know wat? you need to change ur tone on this thread regarding the Ahmadiyya jamaat ( dont even care who the heck Qadianis are in ur dictionary ). You say you gave me reply when i quoted a Quranic verse. Why is it that we both are reading from same book (Quran) yet your understanding is completely different than mine ?
[/QUOTE]
Temper, temper Mr. Popat, I have given the answers for the word Qadiani. Do you want to strip Mirza of his prophecy? Remove Qadiani from his name and he is not the addressee of so called, prophecy. Now why do you blame me for something Mirza said, allegedly came from God?

The verse you quoted, I just explain the meaning that it was the discussion amongst human, not the knowledge of the unseen; which you can not deny. So you should try again. Don’t blame me for your injure knowledge.

[QUOTE]
My self respect is much more important to me than to answer a kid like you. You have insulted Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) enough. The way you respond shows a lot about your own character.
[/QUOTE]
Ohhhhhh, this is nothing, I will show you some specimen what your cultist do when they can not defend Mirza with reasons. I understand your frustration, but it is all writings of Mirza. Why don’t you blame Mirza for writing such things? See your responses and be a judge for yourself who are the kids here. Frustration is a sure sign of defeat.

[QUOTE]
Dont even accuse me of not reading Quran. You may have read it thousands of time and completely neglect the meaning of it, while me reading it ONLY ONCE was more than enough for me ( though i read it many many times ).
[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t come to your level and become personal, but read the evidence I provided and prove it to me that Mirza knew Quran. You want to try?

[QUOTE]
You know what the problem of ur this thread is? its all over the place. You should have quoted one thing at a time from your blong, and before bringing anything else up, that first thing needs to be cleared up first.
2 pages done, nothing have been discussed. This should not be taken as weak point for us. Thing with me is, I do not know where to answer you ... and to wat question of yours?

[/QUOTE]
I even provided you a long summary on your insistence, but alas, you probably didn’t find any crumbs of comfort in it, so you are still bitter because you are just helpless to defend Mirza.

Nothing is discussed because you all are looking at the angles you can come up against me, but you simply can not find these angles. That’s what I call job well done, don’t you think so? It is only 2 pages, but if it goes to 20 pages or 200 you still would be at the same place and spot, because you are just not capable of putting any arguments forward. Admit it there is no shame in it.

Shall I accumulate all the nasty comments all of you have written in these 2 pages? I am just playing with you like one play with kids. If you didn’t pay attention to my comments that nothing would help you, then it is not my fault. Don’t worry slowly you will realise it, it is only the beginning.

[QUOTE]
Thats what I told him in beggining to start giving respect to others and their religious figures to have a humble environment which would actually reflect true Islamic teachings. But he has only one motive I am right you are wrong, I am best you are worst etc etc
[/QUOTE]

d.tox.ed

Actually I read your p. message today and immediately I wrote something nice, but you have spoiled it. I am still going to send it to you, but I will add latest comments by you. Probably you will understand me better after reading it.

[QUOTE]
Bhai Crank ne tou END OF STORY kar diya hai........................ ab wo kisi aur Fourm pe bade fakhr se ek aur VICTORY ka izafa kar ke apna bhi aur doosron ka time bhi zaiya karen ge

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/khan/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif

... unko ek advice hai ke jab bhi koi question karna hou tou to the point question karen aur ek time pe ek ya dou sawal rakhen DOZENS questions aur wo bhi long details ke sath without proper quotes time waiste karne ki bat hai jesa abhi ho raha hai...
[/QUOTE]

Don’t worry EyEsOnSky; I am here for a long period of time, I have lot to go through with you lot. We will see what all of you combined can do to combat the evidence I will introduce in different threads. I can already observer some of you are sulking very loudly. 

This is a result of having too high an opinion of oneself, something which you inaccurately try to blame on me. I am just a humble person, but I know how nasty Qadiani can get, I have plenty of experience of it. I have a whole lot of wonderfully crafted messages on my blog by one individual, who was defeated time and time again so badly that in the end he ended up producing material from Islam and Muslims hating sites like faith freedom, Ali Sina and Sam Shamoun types. He even went further, once he cut and paste an article by Sam Shamoun when I caught him red handed, he claimed he has written it before he converted to Qadianiat. You should search Sam Shamoun amongst you. If you want I can produce the evidence. This is the true caliber of Qadianis. I am under no illusions whatsoever. I know what to expect, therefore, you will never ever find me flustered, guaranteed. Some of you started to have this feeling already, I am sure of it.

Only foolish could see it as boasting, I surely can produce the evidence whenever I desire. I know you guys don’t know the meanings of credibility, direct result of the writings of Mirza.

Calling Ahmadis as Qadianis : Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) was His name and because He (AS) was from Qadian, hence He used to add Qadiani as the last name. Lahories are people from Lahore, Multanis are people from Multan, and so on and so forth.

Its like calling all Muslims as Maccans, when Muslims are found everywhere in the world. Would you not point to anyone if someone calls Muslims as Islamis ?

Lets be a bit more mature and write what you want to write here instead of directing me to your blogs. Let me put your question forward and please do correct me if my question is not actually your question.

Question : How did Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) get the knowledge of unseen when Muhammad PBUH didnt get it?

Answer : I will once again quote the Quranic verse taken from Surah Al-Jin.

[72:27/28] 26/27 for some.. " He is the Knower of the unseen; and He reveals not His secrets to any one Except to him whom He chooses, namely a Messenger of His. And then He causes an escort of guarding angels to go before him and behind him"

Now, lets have discussion on this topic for now. You say Prophet Muhammad PBUH did not know the knowledge of unseen. May I please ask you to provide me with your understanding on the verse I quoted above ? What did Allah mean when He says that He discloses/reveals His secrets to no one BUT someone He chooses? Was Muhammad PBUH not a chosen one? If you say He was not chosen one, then me and you will surely have difference of beliefs. But, if you say He SAW was the chosen one, then Allah has revealed His secrets / knowledge of unseen to Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

Surely, the matter of unseen is something only Allah SWT knows as mentioned in other verses of Quran but Allah do tell some knowledge of unseen to the messengers HE choose, as is said in first quoted verse.

Knowledge of unseen is something a human being is completely unaware of. It does not consist of events in the future but ALSO events took place in past as well. We see in Quran that it is filled with events that took place in the past. Now, I know Quran is the word of Allah, but Prophet Muhammad in 6:50, the verse i quoted above says that He (SAW) only follows/believe whatever is revealed to HIM. In other words, if you examine those verses thoroughly, and read ahadith regarding the signs of the end of the world etc.. you will know that Prophet Muhammad PBUH surely was given the knowledge of 'unseen' which ONLY Allah knew, which Allah wanted the humankind to know through His messenger, namely , Muhammad PBUH.

Another verse to ponder upon :

[3:180] Allah would not leave the believers as you are, until He separated the wicked from the good. **Nor would Allah reveal to you the unseen. But Allah chooses of His Messengers whom He pleases. **Believe, therefore, in Allah and His Messengers. If you believe and be righteous, you shall have a great reward.

The knowledge of the future is only with God Almighty. However, He may favor whomever He pleases with some part of this knowledge. If a man is convinced about the news he gives concerning the future, he can only be a Messenger of God.
The Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, made numerous predictions about the future, and history has not contradicted them. Like the information he gave about the past, his predictions are also to be found in the Quran and in books of Tradition.

Frustration is what I find in you when you have nothing to say in issues of Khatam e nabuwat or the death of Isa (AS). Frustration from my side is due to the fact that you are writing paragraphs over paragraphs, praising your own self, instead of bringing your questions one at a time. You ask me to prove Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS)'s truthfulness. Which scale do you want to measure His truthfulness? Where do you want me to start? What topic of discussion to which I reply will prove His truthfulness is what I am asking from you?.. and there u are keep praising your own blogs.

Prove it that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) knew Quran? He (AS) knew Quran that none else understood it in the past 1400 centuries. Isnt that what your future Imam Mahdi should be an expert of ? He (AS) knew Quran and based on that He (AS) has proven Isa (AS)'s death. Such thorough was His research that He (AS) in one of His research actually counted the word "mutawaffi" (that other Muslim take as raised up alive) in the entire Quran. Proved that the word means death. Knowledge of Quran by Him (AS) was such that He made Muslims see Quran in a completely different way which no one has ever shown. His (AS) knowledge was not JUST limited to Quran but was an expert of other religious scriptures such as Bible. Knowledge of other religions was such that He (AS) used to have munazraas with Arya Samaaj and Christian missionaries of His time and used to defeat them single handedly.

When I talk about ur beliefs, you start jumping here and there. Your belief is that Imam Mahdi will not claim His mahdi-ship but rather people will find Him and insist that He is the one. Will you test Him on his knowledge of Quran so that you can accept Him or like, what you do ..let ur ullamas be satisfied and if they are .. you'll accept them? What if Imam Mahdi (AS)'s way of understanding Quran is different from what you've have been believing? how will you go about finding Imam Mahdi (AS)? Will you take the word of someone who is not divinly guided over someone who is ?? what if He is already gone without anyone recognizing Him ?

Your comments shows disrespect towards Ahmadiyya jamaat. You keep callin us Qadiani hurt us. You know very well that this term is what Ahmadis dont like calling themselves with. Yet, if your intentions were right, you would have appologized and used Ahmadis in your replies.. but you did not. Nasty comments can be reported to mods, but be careful of your own replies because they leave an impression of offensive mode rather than an impression of learning from Ahmadis here.

Re: can Qadianis answer?

As anyone can see, this thread is not going anywhere and both parties are engaged in fruitless tone of discussion.

It has become absolutely useless to anyone.

Someone should get focused and bring substance here and stay on course otherwise its simply waste of time for everyone.

OP should stop bragging and keep referring to his blog and Ahmedis should stop side trailing the discussion.

Humble advice to OP, just say whatever you want to say straightforward and stop making claims after claims. "I can do this", "I can do that" , "I have done this" without coming with an answer which has no benefit.

As I see it: Someone responded/addressed him as a ' Mr. Skunk' making fun of his nick, which should not be allowed.

Here is proof:

Religious difference can be allowed and discussed in mature way but I will say it again as I have said before somewhere in another thread: **

Ahmedis are and should be respected as fellow Pakistanis.
**
Perhaps close the thread and open when people are more mature???

Re: can Qadianis answer?

de-toxed and popat,

yaar do you like banging your head against the wall? Do you have to have a discussion with every tom dick and harry who pipes up every other week. If you don't give much attention to attention seekers, they'll just go find something else to do. There is zero benifit in these discussions as those who are eager to attack ahmadis are people who have their minds made up already. Those who actually want to know our beliefs and are sincere in their questions would find an ahmadi to ask them personally or go to the website to read up on our beliefs.

Re: can Qadianis answer?

chacha_ghalib bhai, my intention always here has been to convey the true beliefs of Ahmadis and to clear the misconceptions some people here have. But I guess there really is no point doing so.

Mods should just close this thread in my honest opinion. Thread itself has no direction and the thread title is broad. My intention to be involved in this thread was so that I can have a healthy discussion , but unfortunately at this point in time, the thread starter have been directing me to his blogs and is not letting me know from which question of his should he want answers from Ahmadis.

I have attempted to create a question in the thread starter's behalf and have given answer to it. Yet, there are other question which may arise from my post or He may then start asking question from other blogs of his. Anyhow.. mods should not be sleeping at this point. They should take action, either to lead this thread in a proper manner, or close it up.