Re: can Qadianis answer?
^ Q3- Do you think someone who has written so extensively on his blogs about qadianis will listen to what you are saying?
Re: can Qadianis answer?
^^I dont think he has written all that himself....seriously doubt it....but Allah knows best.
But guess what I am also blogging....but most stuff is copy paste from here and there...lolz
[QUOTE]
to crankthatskunk: the issue of Isa (AS) raised up alive or His death is very important in order to know where Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Of Qadian (AS) is coming from. The reason why its important is that if Muslims continue to have a belief of Jesus AS second return then you'll never understand Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS's claim. What Ahmadis need to prove is the death of Jesus (AS) of Nazareth. Now, if the death of Jesus AS is proved then the question becomes " who is Isa (AS) mentioned in various ahadith ? "
[/QUOTE]
Mr. Popat,
Problem with you guys is that you read it, but you really don’t read it.
1- I wrote in my last post “there were Muslims; some of them really really learned people who have written that Isa As has died according to the Holy Quran, 1000 years before Mirza. They didn’t jump up and claimed they are Isa As. Because it didn’t matter if ISA As is dead or alive.
2- But Mirza added that Isa As died in Kashmir at the age of 120/125, this is a big big problem for you. You will understand it when I write the articles.
3- If Quran says that Isa As is dead; then all those hadiths are bogus, they should be discarded. Mirza’s view was to throw all other hadiths which doesnt suit him in to the dustbin, he wanted to discard the Hadiths, if you want reference it can be provided to you.
4- It is very simple;
A- ISA as is dead, nobody is coming in his place; there is absolutely no concept of re-incarnation in Islam. Barooz, zil, hulul are all magian ideas. This has been explained in my article.
B- ISA as is alive, he can only come, nobody can come in his guise. There is no room for an imposter.
Either way, there is no room for Mirza. Prove us from the Quran that re-incarnation is allowed and the concepts listed above are Quranic ideas?
Problem for you is that I can prove every which way I want that Mirza was completely wrong and he lied.
[QUOTE]
You need to make up your mind on what it is that you want to discuss. If its that He (AS) claimed a false prophet hood, then indirectly you admit that theres a possibility of Prophet hood after Hazrat Muhammad PBUH. But if you say He (AS) is wrong altogether since there can be no prophet after Muhammad PBUH, then the discussion leads to finality of Prophet hood.
[/QUOTE]
*This is rather daft, have you read my article “Mirza a false prophet”? I have provided evidence *
1- **Allah SWT decreed no more Nazirs i.e. Warner Quran 25:50-52, Mirza lied to claim that he is a Nazir, completely against the decree of the Holy Quran. **
2- **Oath by all earlier prophets Quran 3:81, no possibility of Prophets of any kind after Prophet Muhammad SAW. **
*I am crystal clear, no prophet of any kind after Prophet Muhammad SAW. Only thing I am doing is defeating the arguments used by Mirza by providing undeniable proofs, which you can not refute. Quranic proofs and logical arguments, proofs from history and other sources. *
It is quite obvious you just want to avoid talking about the real issues raised in my articles and in my initial post.
[QUOTE]
No matter how much accusation you write on Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS), if it is his truthfulness that you're doubting then know that you are one of the many people who have tried to lead people your own way, but truth always prevails.
[/QUOTE]
**
*Yes truth always prevails, and that truth is Quran and Prophet Muhammad SAW. Your Mirza just lied and lied all his life. What I am doing is quite unique and unparallel. I produce material which is beyond your reach, there is no way you can twist it or absolve Mriza from his lies.
*
Doubting? Are you serious? I have proven his lies beyond shadow of any doubt. I challenge you to prove me wrong, and defend Mirza, prove us he was truthful. **
J
[QUOTE]
ust read what you are writing. Do you yourself know what you are talking about here? When you say Ahmadis believe Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) to be 'better' than Prophet Muhammad PBUH (NAUZUBILLAH) then why do you ask how He AS know knowledge of unseen?...
[/QUOTE]
I know what I am writing; but you probably don’t know what you are writing. Did you read the evidence in my Article? Allah SWT decreed that He SWT doesn’t share his Government, His SWT knowledge with anyone. What part of anyone you do not understand? In my article I have already taken care of the meaning of the verses from Surah 72 you quoted; there is no need to go through them again.
All the prophets would say to Allah SWT 5:109“We have no knowledge. Lo! Thou, only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden,”
Off course all the true Prophets of Allah SWT would say it on the Day of the Judgment, but false self-propelled Prophets like Mirza and many which I have mentioned in my articles are not included in this verse, they wouldn’t be there in that gathering of the Prophets, but burning in hell, their true abode, a sentence for the grave sins they have committed against Allah SWT by associating white lies to Him SWT.
If we start taking everyone’s claims seriously then there were many who claim that they are god, would you believe them too? Oh, I forgot Mirza also claimed in dreams he saw himself as god and he believed he is. Therefore, I think you can believe almost anything. I will open a thread for my article on the dreams of Mirza that would give you the idea from where Mirza was getting these dreams, kashaf etc. etc.
Secondly you do not even know how to make an argument, the verse from Surah Youssuf you mentioned does not say it was the knowledge of the Unseen revealed to Prophet Muhammad SAW. I show you what the verse says;
12:102 (Asad) THIS ACCOUNT of something that was beyond the reach of thy perception We [now] reveal unto thee, [O Prophet:] for thou wert not with Joseph's brothers when they resolved upon what they were going to do and wove their schemes [against him].
Mr. Popat your quotations of this verse from Surah Youssuf, shows your complete ignorance of Arabic language and your knowledge of the Holy Quran. The words used in Holy Quran are “Al Ghaib nohia alaika” i.e. only the perception and knowledge of Prophet Muhammad SAW and not something Hidden from all the humans, or in other words Knowledge of the Hidden or Unseen.
Let me elaborate if you are still confused and do not understand it.
The discussion was amongst the brother of Prophet Youssuf AS, therefore, it was the human knowledge, and already known to the human i.e. it was actually their conversation, not the knowledge of the Hidden and Unseen. But off course it was not in the knowledge of Prophet Muhammad SAW, therefore, it was revealed to Him SWT.
I think you should read more, I mean not the books of Mirza but the real books where you can get Islamic knowledge rather then following Mirza blindly and not understanding where he is leading you.
18:26 He maketh none to share in His Government.
Do you see, none in this verse? None means no one, zilch, nobody has that knowledge, Allah SWT does not share His SWT Government i.e. His SWT Knowledge and Powers with anyone. But how would you understand it? You believe that Mirza could create heaven and earth, according to his claims, and Allah SWT just attest his plans by signing with red ink. Talk about absurdity.
Mr. Popat, it is not only Prophet Muhammad SAW who did not have the knowledge of the unseen but no other prophet or any human ever had this knowledge, period.
Probably you would be able to give us the explanation of the red ink drops on Mirza and his servant. You guys talk about logic, give your logic, where was Allah SWT sitting when he signed those papers and drop the ink on Mirza and his servant as a proof?
Once again you read, but you do not read, two verses were about Prophet Muhammad SAW but the other were about categorical decrees of Allah SWT that He SWT does not share his powers, divinity and knowledge of the Unseen with anyone. But you failed to notice, or deliberately ignored the evidence because it went against Mirza.
My question was how he can have the knowledge of the unseen when he was the zill and Maseel, i.e. reflection of Prophet Muhammad SAW. Reflection has to be exactly the same as the original. Similarly the question of Prophet Muhammad SAW being As-Sadiq, now compare this quality of Prophet SAW with Mirza. You will find the true colors of Mirza and fallacy of his baseless claims; he was nothing like Prophet Muhammad SAW, end of story. I have produced evidence after evidence, why can’t you defend Mirza against the evidence? I have not seen you writing one sentence to refute the evidence and clear Mirza.
You know why you did not? Because would never ever be able to refute my evidence and clear Mirza, this is a cast iron guarantee. Try if you must, and watch the result of your efforts.
I advice you to be careful, very careful indeed, I am different and you wouldn’t find me short on Quranic knowledge, rest is up to you,how can I stop you?
[QUOTE]
There are many events predicted by our Prophet (saas) 1400 years ago that are coming true today. Many scholars of the Hadiths such as Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, Thirmidhi, Nasai, Ibn Majah, witness to the fact that secret knowledge revealed by our Prophet (saas) in the Hadiths is true. They attest to the miracle that all the secret knowledge revealed by our Prophet (saas) has come true and continues to come true.
[/QUOTE]
It is quite apparent that you do not even understand the meaning of “knowledge of the Unseen”.
Did you read Quran? It has many miraculous verses, which disclose facts, which were not known to the human until recently. There are many other verses, true meanings of it may not be known to us for a considerable time, 100’s or 1000’s of years, only Allah SWT knows. Since when Holy Quran become knowledge of the Unseen of Prophet Muhammad SAW? Don’t you know that Quran is the Word of Allah SWT? The great Muslim Scholars and Imam believed that Quran is “Uncreated Word of Allah SWT”. You should get the right prospective on Islamic teachings.
Do you know this fact; it is Muslims belief that Quran is supreme and above all other evidence? Muslim agrees any Hadiths which contradicts Quran should be rejected out of hand. It does not matter where it is quoted; Bukhari or Muslims are not equal to The Holy Quran, the Word of Allah SWT.
Secondly, you are showing classic hypocrisy of Qadianis, would you consider all the Hadiths true and reliable, which describe the descend of Isa As, his other acts like he performing Haj and after his death buried in Madina with the Holy Prophet SAW? Hadiths about Imam Mehdi and countless other hadiths traditions which Mirza didn’t fulfilled. I bet you wouldn’t even if they are from Muslim and Bukhari.
I am still waiting for the answers of my question; I hope you will oblige all of us with your tremendous knowledge obtained after reading books of Mirza and your cultists.
d.tox.ed
You kidding me right? Did you see the introduction on my home page? I started this Weblog with the sole intention to expose each topic in details and do investigations on various issue from the writings of Mirza.
I have read and checked almost all the material available on the internet for or against Mirza. I have gone through the sites like Al-Hafiz at length, read articles and books by many, names including people like Maudodi. I found that every one of them have adopted a very easy path to lump Mirza’s claims in one article or book and called him heretic. You will find the same tactics and same material used by majority, re-cycled pages after pages on different websites.
I on the other hand am doing a very thoroughly researched job. Exploring topics from different angles.
The way my material is presented, the analysis, arguments and conclusions you wouldn’t find in any publications or web site.
I have been discussing writings of Mirza for last 3 years, not one single Qadiani could dispute the evidence. It is all original stuff, the real McCoy. My material is definite, undeniable, accurate, authenticated to the point, you can never ever refute anything I have produced. No chance of using taweels with my material, this is the beauty of it. I have plenty in the pipeline. When all said and done, I will expose Mirza completely. Each and every substantial topic in the writings of Mirza will be covered. You Qadianis would have no answers to my articles, and I will prove Mirza wrong on each and every major topic he has written about.
Mirza was neither knowledgeable nor was he honest. I am sure you have read most if not all of my articles by now on my weblog. You still have no idea? You and Mirza are in seriously difficulties. When I said I am here to debate with anyone of you, then it was no exaggeration. I know Quran and teachings of Islam very well indeed, better then your Mirza ever could.
No, No, I am not a so called “Mullah” your usual mantra to call every Muslim a Mullah. I am thoroughly modern westernized man, but I am still a Muslim. I have sit down and read books of Mirza with patience and diligence. Patience is needed to read his books because amount of lies and heresies they contain against different Prophets including Prophet Muhammad SAW are not that easy for a Muslim to ignore. But one has to be objective in his understanding to learn the reality about the subject matter and the writer. Then and only then the criticism could be correct, informative and effective. That’s what I am trying to do.
I had been to one of the most famous forum for Qadianis for last three years. In these three years I have completely destroyed every argument put forward by your Cultists. The Murabis, who used to participate on that forum, disappeared slowly because they could not answer the questions asked, nor could they deny the lies exposed in my articles and in my posts.
I want a debate with the highest level of intellectuals from your Jamat, but none would come forward. I have been to the Lahori Jamat forum when I wrote my first article “repeat of an Error”. This article is listed on this thread; it discusses the topic which has been bone of contention between the Qadiani Jamat and its lahori offshoot. But none of the participant on their forum could answer the questions and prove it to me that Mirza didn’t claim prophet hood on the basis of his injure and perceptive translation and understanding of the Verses in Surah Juma.
Their resident scholar, if you insist on calling your people as such, wanted to talk about Iqbal rather then clear Mirza from the proofs displayed in my article. Lahoris had 100 years of practice on this very subject; they have spent years and years producing material to deny that Mirza claimed the Prophet Hood.
I produced few paragraphs on that particular issue and they were totally dumb stuck, why? Why couldn’t they find the answers from their 100 years research? I tell you why, because it is impossible to refute my evidence.
I will display my discussion with them in a new thread. In the end their so called Scholar Dr. Zahid Aziz started to block my posts, instead of answering the Questions and clearing the name of Mirza. I have issued him a challenge for a debate on another forum months ago, but he still has not accepted it. Foul and vulgar language was used by the followers, because they found themselves incapable of answering the questions and refuting the evidence I produced against Mirza.
Don’t take my material lightly or think otherwise, it is genuine writings, which I intend to take in to the publication, when I have accumulated enough material. I am a busy man, with a family and a day job, therefore, time is at premium. At the moment I am testing it amongst the Qadianis. To see if any refinement needed before the publications of the material. Did you fail to notice Copy right signs? I have registered the copy rights for my material. I have not gone through these many efforts for nothing. I am not after monetary gains, I am not worried about money at all, I earn enough to have a comfortable life, Allahamdullalah.
I was first surprised from the claims of Mirza, when I read his writings; I started to understand him, his motives, and his personality. Now I can see through him, his whole personality is like an open book.
I have reduced many Qadianis to complete heretic, they ended up writings blasphemies which no Muslim could ever imagine. I am getting my response ready for your colleague to answer his latest post. If he is not careful, same fate will be fall on him.
I will give you a simple proof; you guys are desperate to discuss death of Isa As. I am half way through my first article, I have accumulated most of the material I want to use, have written some part of the article. But I am going to do something different before continuing my current article, first I will write a small article exposing “Jesus in India” to test if you can provide the answers. This I have already exposed on one of your forums more than a year ago.
crankthatskunk , you are scaring me with your knowledge man. You know a lot more than i do man. wow ! stop scaring me. What do i do so that you stop exposing us ? money would do ? :D
I am not going to write paragraphs after paragraphs to prove my stance. However, what I am going to do is to put it in point form for you as well as other readers to have a better understanding of what I am talking about.
- Being a shadow of someone is and should not be something that you should not be able to understand. Being a shadow of someone is to show respect. Shadow never comes into being without someone giving it off. Also, shadow is always on the ground and does exactly what a person does. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) was a shadow of Muhammad PBUH just exactly in that sense. He(AS) used to follow exactly what His master (PBUH) used to follow. This is why He says that whatever level from Allah he got was achieved because of continuous obedience to His master , the holiest prophet Muhammad PBUH.
- If Quran proves Isa AS's death then all hadith mentioning Isa (AS) is NOT bogus and should not be discarded. Why you would ask ? It is because Isa AS is the title given to Imam Muhammad Mahdi by Prophet Muhammad PBUH. There are mutawatir ahadith mentioning His second coming which cannot be discarded. So, who is Isa AS mentioned in various ahadith if His death has been proved from Quran ? now thats the question.. dont you think ? You can quote me here and we will discuss on this regard anytime, but theres no point me explaining my own question if you're not willing to read/learn.
- To put it simply, yes i am avoiding the question raised by you because they make no sense whatsoever. You know why? because the thing that we both agree upon is the need of a reformer after Muhammad PBUH. You people make a nabi (isa AS) an ummati of Muhammad PBUH , while Ahmadis make **ummati of Muhammad PBUH **as the nabi. IF our whole belief was off , then you're more then welcome to write blog after blog , and cant shake the beliefs of Ahmadis proven by Quran and ahadith.
- Since you agreed that there have been Muslims believing in Isa AS's death, you did not mention did they discard Isa AS's related Ahadith?
- Theres no concept of re-incarnation in Islam , however there is a concept of giving titles. Hazrat Yahya (AS) was given the title of Hazrat Elijah (AS).
- Your belief of Isa (AS) needs to be discussed first because if it is not discussed , will lead you to think Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) is the 're-incarnation' of Isa (AS), which is un-islamic, and a false accusation.
Let me ask you something man. Why are you a believer of Islam ? What do you see in Muhammad PBUH ? why dont other people see the same thing in Prophet Muhammad PBUH's teaching ? Why do they reject ?
You will never accept Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) as the Imam Mahdi and the promised Messiah until and unless your other beliefs are changed. i.e: your view on khatam e naboowat , Isa AS's death. Keep bringing on your useless questions.
^ Q3- Do you think someone who has written so extensively on his blogs about qadianis will listen to what you are saying?
You got the point DD.
However I see that he has been able to bait a few detractors.
You know it is shameful on the part of many Pakistanis to use our Nation (#1) and our religion (#2) as part of the "blood sport". These guys draw pleasure in spilling blood (virtually and literally) in the name of religion with no remorse, and no fear.
Re: can Qadianis answer?
^Yar after reading err looking at the page 1(coz i wonder if anyone can really read it), all i can say is, its better to leave the play ground.
Re: can Qadianis answer?
I think these kind of discussions are only helpful if the tone is right.
Asking question to a different sect and challenging is not the right tone.
OP may be very well informed and knowledgeable in his area of interest but challenging is not a good way to have discussion.
So, I think the tone should be: This is how I understood about a particular sect by my research. An informative discussion so everyone can learn who have not much time themselves to search.
Example: We had a very nice person from Ismailee Sect answering questions and he had opened a thread to clarify his understanding. People asked questions and this person answered. Now it is up to people if they agree or satisfied or not.
Can OP just present his ideas without mocking/challenging Ahmedi brothers/friends?
In small segments, not too long posts with too many points lump sumped. Discussion Forum should not be like reading a book!!!!!
Mr. Crank...,
Your discussion with mr. popat and others will continue but regarding your 'articles', I have read some material from 'false prophet..' article.
I will highlight just one thing i.e., to make the discussion go any further, you must provide full references of what you found in the books of Promised Messiah(a.s). Don't just say for instance, 'They usually bring the evidence from the Quran that Prophet Ibrahim AS lied (nauzobillah)'. provide reference as how did you get to know this. and reference, I tell you, should provide name of the book, volume (if applicable), page number etc. cuttings from books without reference will not do. Whatever your allegations are. do support your claim with properly mentioned references. just saying ' they believe/think this and that' will not do. I hope, you will make necessary changes in your article to make it at least look like an article. After that we will analyse it.
Hopefully, I will not get a ten paragraph response from you.
Re: can Qadianis answer?
I am not concerned with whether you accept what my beliefs are.. but what i am concerned with is you having the false information about Jamaat e Ahmadiyya. Your beliefs may not fit with mine, neither will yours with me. What I humbly want is to convey the true beliefs of ours so that you get the opportunity to weigh them under your knowledge of Quran and ahadith. InshAllah none of our beliefs will contradict Quran and ahadith Mubarik. They never have contradicted, they never will. InshAllah.
Do you know a guy from the program Aalim Online, Amir Liaquat Hussain, who is so very anti-Ahmadi also admitted and started having the beliefs of what Ahmadis have been believing for the past 100+ years. When other aalims are thinking of dajjal as some unique creature, this guy Aamir is admitting that Dajjal is the technology. Exactly what Ahmadis stance have been since day one. Though, he says that its his own belief but He know deep inside that this belief is taken from Ahmadiyyat. Reference can be given upon request.
**I think these kind of discussions are only helpful if the tone is right.
Asking question to a different sect and challenging is not the right tone.**
OP may be very well informed and knowledgeable in his area of interest but challenging is not a good way to have discussion. ** So, I think the tone should be: **This is how I understood about a particular sect by my research. An informative discussion so everyone can learn who have not much time themselves to search.
Example: We had a very nice person from Ismailee Sect answering questions and he had opened a thread to clarify his understanding. People asked questions and this person answered. Now it is up to people if they agree or satisfied or not.
Can OP just present his ideas without mocking/challenging Ahmedi brothers/friends?
In small segments, not too long posts with too many points lump sumped. Discussion Forum should not be like reading a book!!!!!
Diwana, thank you very much for being so positive and not being one of those who're expert in mocking. We , by the grace of Allah are very well informed about what our beliefs are and our eyes, ears and hearts are open and hence the reason of our acceptance to Ahmadiyyat and our dedication to spreading Islam to every corner of the world. I can assure you brother, we are spreading Islam where people have never heard of Islam before. Whether it be in hot desert of Africa or whether it be in religion-less countries of Europe. Each year by the grace of Allah the almighty people are accepting the true Islam in huge groups. You'll find african Ahmadi Muslims, German Ahmadis , Chinese, as well as Arabic Ahmadis. Our motto is to have love for all and hatred for none and we apply this in our daily life. I read Quran out loud with pride and with fear in my heart when holding the holiest book. People are free to hold beliefs of whatever they like, but also need to respect other people's belief too. Its not islamic to call anyone non-muslim who claim to be muslim.
If anyone has a positive tone towards jamaat e ahmadiyya and is willing to actually learn instead of proving their point right and rest all wrong, then we can have a discussion where both parties will learn about eachother.
If one put themselves in our shoes, you'll know why we dont always have the offensive mode. People can say whatever they like about Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS), but Ahmadis on other hand cant say anything to anyone who is a follower of holiest prophet Muhammad PBUH. Ahmadis are helpless to only defend their beliefs but cant attack others due to the reason that they're also a follower of Muhammad SAW just as much as any other regular Muslim. Attacking them with their own beliefs would mean attacking Islam which is absolutely unacceptable by any Ahmadi. Bhai jaan jaae, Islam pe aanch na aae. Jaan se zyaada bhi koi cheez ho to bhai wo bhi Muhammad Mustafa (SAW) ke deen pe qurban.
d.tox.ed
You kidding me right? Did you see the introduction on my home page? I started this Weblog with the sole intention to expose each topic in details and do investigations on various issue from the writings of Mirza.
I have read and checked almost all the material available on the internet for or against Mirza. I have gone through the sites like Al-Hafiz at length, read articles and books by many, names including people like Maudodi. I found that every one of them have adopted a very easy path to lump Mirza’s claims in one article or book and called him heretic. You will find the same tactics and same material used by majority, re-cycled pages after pages on different websites.
I on the other hand am doing a very thoroughly researched job. Exploring topics from different angles.
The way my material is presented, the analysis, arguments and conclusions you wouldn’t find in any publications or web site.
I have been discussing writings of Mirza for last 3 years, not one single Qadiani could dispute the evidence. It is all original stuff, the real McCoy. My material is definite, undeniable, accurate, authenticated to the point, you can never ever refute anything I have produced. No chance of using taweels with my material, this is the beauty of it. I have plenty in the pipeline. When all said and done, I will expose Mirza completely. Each and every substantial topic in the writings of Mirza will be covered. You Qadianis would have no answers to my articles, and I will prove Mirza wrong on each and every major topic he has written about.
Mirza was neither knowledgeable nor was he honest. I am sure you have read most if not all of my articles by now on my weblog. You still have no idea? You and Mirza are in seriously difficulties. When I said I am here to debate with anyone of you, then it was no exaggeration. I know Quran and teachings of Islam very well indeed, better then your Mirza ever could.
No, No, I am not a so called “Mullah” your usual mantra to call every Muslim a Mullah. I am thoroughly modern westernized man, but I am still a Muslim. I have sit down and read books of Mirza with patience and diligence. Patience is needed to read his books because amount of lies and heresies they contain against different Prophets including Prophet Muhammad SAW are not that easy for a Muslim to ignore. But one has to be objective in his understanding to learn the reality about the subject matter and the writer. Then and only then the criticism could be correct, informative and effective. That’s what I am trying to do.
I had been to one of the most famous forum for Qadianis for last three years. In these three years I have completely destroyed every argument put forward by your Cultists. The Murabis, who used to participate on that forum, disappeared slowly because they could not answer the questions asked, nor could they deny the lies exposed in my articles and in my posts.
I want a debate with the highest level of intellectuals from your Jamat, but none would come forward. I have been to the Lahori Jamat forum when I wrote my first article “repeat of an Error”. This article is listed on this thread; it discusses the topic which has been bone of contention between the Qadiani Jamat and its lahori offshoot. But none of the participant on their forum could answer the questions and prove it to me that Mirza didn’t claim prophet hood on the basis of his injure and perceptive translation and understanding of the Verses in Surah Juma.
Their resident scholar, if you insist on calling your people as such, wanted to talk about Iqbal rather then clear Mirza from the proofs displayed in my article. Lahoris had 100 years of practice on this very subject; they have spent years and years producing material to deny that Mirza claimed the Prophet Hood.
I produced few paragraphs on that particular issue and they were totally dumb stuck, why? Why couldn’t they find the answers from their 100 years research? I tell you why, because it is impossible to refute my evidence.
I will display my discussion with them in a new thread. In the end their so called Scholar Dr. Zahid Aziz started to block my posts, instead of answering the Questions and clearing the name of Mirza. I have issued him a challenge for a debate on another forum months ago, but he still has not accepted it. Foul and vulgar language was used by the followers, because they found themselves incapable of answering the questions and refuting the evidence I produced against Mirza.
Don’t take my material lightly or think otherwise, it is genuine writings, which I intend to take in to the publication, when I have accumulated enough material. I am a busy man, with a family and a day job, therefore, time is at premium. At the moment I am testing it amongst the Qadianis. To see if any refinement needed before the publications of the material. Did you fail to notice Copy right signs? I have registered the copy rights for my material. I have not gone through these many efforts for nothing. I am not after monetary gains, I am not worried about money at all, I earn enough to have a comfortable life, Allahamdullalah.
I was first surprised from the claims of Mirza, when I read his writings; I started to understand him, his motives, and his personality. Now I can see through him, his whole personality is like an open book.
I have reduced many Qadianis to complete heretic, they ended up writings blasphemies which no Muslim could ever imagine. I am getting my response ready for your colleague to answer his latest post. If he is not careful, same fate will be fall on him.
I will give you a simple proof; you guys are desperate to discuss death of Isa As. I am half way through my first article, I have accumulated most of the material I want to use, have written some part of the article. But I am going to do something different before continuing my current article, first I will write a small article exposing “Jesus in India” to test if you can provide the answers. This I have already exposed on one of your forums more than a year ago.
hahaha...yaar meri 2 line ki post ke peeche aapne apni tareefon ke pull baand dyye...lolz....you are one hell of a joke cracker.
Ok listen its a sincere suggestion....write a book on the topics..it will at least make up some money for you and.....start going onto Khatme Nabbuwat conferences and it will give you publicity....seriously I am not buying your knowledge mantra....
^Yar after reading err looking at the page 1(coz i wonder if anyone can really read it), all i can say is, its better to leave the play ground.
ohh no dont go now...the fun part just began.
Re: can Qadianis answer?
i am not a qadiani
"am not concerned with whether you accept what my beliefs are.. but what i am concerned with is you having the false information about Jamaat e Ahmadiyya. Your beliefs may not fit with mine, neither will yours with me. What I humbly want is to convey the true beliefs of ours so that you get the opportunity to weigh them under your knowledge of Quran and ahadith. InshAllah none of our beliefs will contradict Quran and ahadith Mubarik. They never have contradicted, they never will. InshAllah."
Mr. Popat;
I also humbly request you that you pay attention to the purpose of my articles. Please keep this in mind, it is nothing personal, I do not know any of you, so what benefit is there for me if I win or you loose? Absolutely none, so you should think what is the purpose? I am not after money or fame, otherwise, I wouldn’t have selected this ID which has a meaning attached to it, I could have used my real name.
You are slightly dishonest in your above paragraph. You said me having false information about your Jamat. I am just amazed how can you write this? Please read all my articles; they are full of the quotes from the writings of Mirza Ghulam-e-Ahmed Qadiani. Wasn’t he the leader and founder of your Jamat? Do you want me to believe that quoting and analyzing the writings and beliefs of Mirza is false information about your Jamat?
I am just amazed that you have disowned your own Jamat and Mirza. My dear, I only quote genuine writings of Mirza and others from your Jamat. That’s why instead of giving the reference, I first post the original and then include the translation from me or in case of tadkirah, your official translation for the Urdu writings of Mirza. There is absolutely no chance of anyone accusing me of misquotations.
My dear, once again, I am conveying you true beliefs of your Jamat, from the writings of Mirza. If you are trying to disown the writings of Mirza then what I can say?Fact of the matter is, disagreement is fine, but you should be able to effectively defend what Mirza wrote. But unfortunately I have not seen one Qadiani who could defend one aspect from the writings of Mirza.
When I came here, all of you were very keen to show that you would easily take care of me; some of you mentioned older threads and wanted me to read them. If I say I have spent 3 years reading your material and discussing it with your Murabis and others like you who take part on the forums. Then you should trust and believe what I say, and be rest assured that is the case
I wrote a notice on my weblog, to distinguish my work from others, due to my approach, it is almost impossible to refute the evidence or make taweels. My direct style is deliberate; purposefully adopted so I avoid wasting my time and others, without getting involved in frivolous arguments or reading misquotations of hadiths or twisting of the meaning of the Holy Quran, which is always the case when you discuss with Qadianis.
You probably realize now, what I meant when I started first. All I can say is that I am still waiting for any of you to challenge the evidence I produced and clear Mirza from the proofs displayed in my articles, specially his heresies against the Holy Quran, the Word of Allah SWT.
You should always remember, even though I write the articles, but the evidence I produce is mostly from the Holy Quran, proving Mirza wrong, therefore, you have a heavy burden of proof, to deny the evidence of the Holy Quran against Mirza.
"Do you know a guy from the program Aalim Online, Amir Liaquat Hussain, who is so very anti-Ahmadi also admitted and started having the beliefs of what Ahmadis have been believing for the past 100+ years. When other aalims are thinking of dajjal as some unique creature, this guy Aamir is admitting that Dajjal is the technology. Exactly what Ahmadis stance have been since day one. Though, he says that its his own belief but He know deep inside that this belief is taken from Ahmadiyyat. Reference can be given upon request."
Yeah I happen to also know that the master’s degree and the doctorate Amir Liaquat hold are bogus, but he still keeps calling himself as DR. Do you want me to worry about what this man with no credibility say or write? This is my exact problem with Mirza he was not credible at all.
I apply the same standards to all, albeit if it is Muslim or Qadiani or Christians. You will never find me with double standards; I try to be as honest as I possible could.
As for Dajjal, there is no mention of him in the Holy Quran. About Hadiths there is absolutely no guarantee, we have made rules for their authentications, but they are just our understanding, it is not necessary that many Hadiths are accurate saying of Prophet Muhammad SAW. There is a huge difference between hadiths, which are transmission of sayings of Prophet Muhammad SAW 200/300 years after his SAW death, which may or may not be true. And me presenting the original writings of Mirza.
"Ok listen its a sincere suggestion....write a book on the topics..it will at least make up some money for you and.....start going onto Khatme Nabbuwat conferences and it will give you publicity....seriously I am not buying your knowledge mantra...."
d.tox.ed
Nobody is asking you to buy my mantra, but think how you bought the mantra of Mirza, which could leave you in the hot waters at the Day, which is promised in the Holy Quran. I can only warn you. And no I am not a Warner, but just a simple, honest Muslim.
I already said; I am comfortable with what I earn and more than happy that Allah SWT gives me Razzaq-e-Halal, more than what I need and surely more than what I deserve, I have absolutely no complaints, Allhamdolillah. Money is the least bit of my problems.
I am accumulating my material for a higher purpose, this is enough explanation for it; it will not remain in the condition it is, I know it is not refined at the moment it has some grammatical mistakes, which would be corrected after proof reading. For me it is more important to keep the record when I have written it, so it can be proven that it was my original ideas and writings. My material and presentation of the arguments is already copied by many. I was writing on a forum 2 years before I wrote my first article. There is plenty of material from my old posts, which I need to convert in to the articles.
Re: can Qadianis answer?
Ok let me help you using the quoations stuff.
When you want to reply click on quote button at bottom right side of the post. Then remove unncessary parts you dont want to include in your post. Then finally at the bottom type in your reply :)
I think you have started become much more politer then you were few days back and thats the way I like it but there is still that thing of I did this I did that and I will do that etc etc. So it looks like its only you everywhere please give others to say that they can do this that etc etc....lolz
Don’t try to be smart, I know how to post on the forum; the problem is with the quotations, it throws all kind of tags and macros crap. That’s why I have to use comas for quotations; I don’t have the time to check all the settings on this computer, from my other computer I always use the quote function.
You do not understand; you guys are very irritating, you learn this habit from Mirza and your cult. Every one of you first acts like a smug, and when they realize what they are up against they come down to the ground, reality dawns on them. I am getting used to it. I am a very humble person in real life, but with Qadianis it has to be a different attitude, to keep them in their rightful place.
For I did this; I can provide proof of everything, I am not in the habit of exaggerations. For, I will do it; you should wait to find out. It may be matter of time, but I keep my promises.
Anything else? I hope your Ramadan is going fine, you are not thinking that you will get away with it, do you? I mean there is a lot Qadianis have to answer on this thread, but looking at the lame excuses, I will start a new thread and a new topic, until you dive in to the resources of your Jamat, but be rest assured you wouldn’t find any answers. This is the beauty of my writings. Good luck.
Don’t try to be smart, I know how to post on the forum; the problem is with the quotations, it throws all kind of tags and macros crap. That’s why I have to use comas for quotations; I don’t have the time to check all the settings on this computer, from my other computer I always use the quote function.
You do not understand; you guys are very irritating, you learn this habit from Mirza and your cult. Every one of you first acts like a smug, and when they realize what they are up against they come down to the ground, reality dawns on them. I am getting used to it. I am a very humble person in real life, but with Qadianis it has to be a different attitude, to keep them in their rightful place.
For I did this; I can provide proof of everything, I am not in the habit of exaggerations. For, I will do it; you should wait to find out. It may be matter of time, but I keep my promises.
Anything else? I hope your Ramadan is going fine, you are not thinking that you will get away with it, do you? I mean there is a lot Qadianis have to answer on this thread, but looking at the lame excuses, I will start a new thread and a new topic, until you dive in to the resources of your Jamat, but be rest assured you wouldn’t find any answers. This is the beauty of my writings. Good luck.
hahaha...neki kar darya mien daal waali baat ho gai...chalo koi nahin...abb aap esa samjhte hian to esa hi sahi....phir aap wohi baat dohraa rahe hian....i can do this and I can that...in short I am the best...well...
Best of luck buddy...
P.S - You actually make me laugh...why dont you also post in humour section?
Re: can Qadianis answer?
crankthatskunk, I honestly want to reply you but your blog are way too long for a person like me who has limited time to sit on GS can read. If possible, and if you know the procedure of quoting here on Gupshup, i'd ask you to quote yourself from ur blogs over here and let us all know what is it that you want to discuss about. I will then reply you with whatever knowledge of Islam I have and whatever knowledge of Ahmadiyya Jamaat I have.
PS: dont write huge paragraphs of your own praise. I care less how long have u been studying Ahmadiyya literature, or how many times have you been in discussions with Ahmadis. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS)'s truthfulness is at the moment out of side. His truthfulness can easily be shown and how Allah has helped him in all His life. As I earlier said, without discussion on other matters of Islam, you will always keep pointing finger at Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS), the Promised Messiah and the Imam Mahdi (AS).
Next time when you reply me, i want you to quote me so that i know to which part of my post are you replying to.