Democracy is rule by the people. Which implies that all the people, who are citizens have equal oppurtunity to rule. Since the people rule, they represent themselves.
But in an "Islamic " country like ours in Pakistan, only the majority Muslims can rule the country. And only Muslims are represented. Despite the fact that there are a sizeable number of minorities.
So doesnt this contradict the principles of Democracy which we are trying to build? Isnt democracy supposed to represent ALL the people?
ur right. but dont forget teh fact tat islam has its own idea of democracy. and it is governed by principles.
and why question democracy and islam. the largest democracy in teh world(or so called, which is india) isnt anyway close to democracy
Dear Adanan, to your enquiry a simple answer is, No.
You may note that to your question many self styled Islamic educated will tell you that the democracies existing are not democracies or will define you the real democracy can exist only as per Islam, seen nowhere so far.
Let us analyze a little the State of Communist regimes. They take directions from a book. Define the book as per the needs. Prosecute or jail any one who does not agree to their definitions and wish. One communist regime does not recognize the other communist regime. For them the democracies existing in free world are a big fraud.
The real reason for all this non-sense is that these regimes take all dogmas from a book.
You can study what happened in Soviet Union or in Republic of China. The result was that people of these States have suffered the most.
The same is happening in Islamic States. Just a plus or minus, here and there, rest is same.
The first rule of Quran is part of our Qaraardaad-e-Maqaasid as well although not implemeted:
**Sovereignity belongs to ALLAH and Allah alone … **
which actually contradicts the definition of democracy in which people of the country are sole supreme soverign …
and yes democracy means if a place is inhabited by theives then only a thief can be chosen using their votes:k:
plus take this scenario: 100 voters – 3 candidates — 2 got 33 each .. one got 34 and got elected.. even though was rejected by majority i.e; 66
go figure:)
Has any one cared to look into why Jews chose to live under Islam....
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*Originally posted by Abdali: *
Has any one cared to look into why Jews chose to live under Islam....
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I am not sure how this question is realated to islam and democracy.
but to answer your question under islam the jews or dhimmis as they are known (people of contract) are given there rights under the islamic system.
A example of this is during the inquistion in spain in the 15th century where jews and non christians where killed. The jews fled and where did they go they did not go to germany or america they went to the heart of the uthmani khilafah and its capital istanbul. Where historians made statement that istanbul was 2/3 jew because of the number of jews going there from spain. The jews knew they would have there rights under islam. How unfortunate today the table has turned and we now see the jews behaving very badly with the muslims in palestine!
Jew just wish to live under Islamic rulers.....
And Aurangzeb rule was the best one, Hindus were very happy under his rule, paying the most democratic Jazi tax.
Funny, this Islamic press.......
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*Originally posted by anand: *
Jew just wish to live under Islamic rulers.....
And Aurangzeb rule was the best one, Hindus were very happy under his rule, paying the most democratic Jazi tax.
Funny, this Islamic press.......
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Well, there are bad eggs in every society.
Aurangzeb is an example.
But India is a land of conquerors, Muslims were docile comapared to the others.
Well, God may have sovreignty, but we still have to choose a leader who is earth bound. So how do we choose this non divine earth bound leader? Does this leader have to be a Muslim, who then represents the non Muslims?
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*Originally posted by Adnan Ahmed: *
Well, God may have sovreignty, but we still have to choose a leader who is earth bound. So how do we choose this non divine earth bound leader? Does this leader have to be a Muslim, who then represents the non Muslims?
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the islamic system has given us the mechanism to choose our leader. Which is one called the khalifah, amir or whatever you like but he is only one leader not 2,3 etc.
The leader is chosen by the people within the state by them giving there bayah(consent). this can be done by voting or there tribal leaders giving there support, whatever is the most convenient method as long as it is within the islamic framework.
The islamic system is comprehensive system which gives rights to non muslims aswell. There is a council of the ummah which is representative of the ummah as well as non muslims they are there basically to put forward any complaints or to account any misdeeds within the system.
Another point just because democracy has voting and islam has voting does not equate democracy with islam. Because as people have pointed out democracy man makes all the laws in islam allah(swt) makes the laws.
*>>>Sovereignity belongs to ALLAH and Allah alone ... *
When the majority of the people believe in Allah then the leadership they chose also believe in their values & hold Allah the sole sovereign. Read the constitution of Pakistan.
AnHazoor (saw) was "rightly guided", had abundance in revelation through Allah and never did anything without the consent of Allah! Even he used to council his companions in matter of everyday life!
The concept of Shurah is very democratic & was developed far before the western concept of democracy.
Even the "rightly guided" Khailafat was "elected", though sadly it became like any other monarchy.
Saif1924,
Can a woman become a Khalifah?
I agree most of the part here:k:
but need to say something:
When the majority of the people believe in Allah then the leadership they chose also believe in their values & hold Allah the sole sovereign.<<<<
Believing is far different than implementing… One who truely believes does implement but when you dun implement then it is clear that there is a problem some where…
as for ur question to saif1924: the answer is “NO”! There is a clear hadith stating that it is not recommended to elect a woman for “amaarat” …
Wama Alaina Illal Balaagh!
Re: Can Pakistani ISLAM and DEMOCRACY live together?
Adnan Bhai…
The bifercation is not only on muslims and minorites .As u can see the number of seats in the NA is governed by population census …Foe e.g NWFP has got much less seats in the parliment then PUNJAb same goes for balochistan , In the same way according to minority population they have there represntation in the parliment .
Secondly on the topic of democracy …I think this is the first time that true democracy has been exercised in pakistan …dont laugh …I will explain.
Some of my "far off " relatives and friends who stood for elections from peshawar, mardan, mansehra …all lost there seats to mullahs 
…My relatives/friends told me that they had bribed the voters considrebally paid there electricity bills, gave them things like cycles , sewing machines , in all …probably each of them invested over 3 croer ruppees…but when the bloody voter went to the booth he voted for the mullah 
I tried to remain sober and calm them and listened to there lame excuses as “the elections were rigged etc” but in my hearts of heart I was laughing
Pakora
as for ur question to saif1924: the answer is "NO"! There is a clear hadith stating that it is not recommended to elect a woman for "amaarat" ... <<<
Maybe I should have asked, if a women can be the head of an Islamic state? Khalifa has other connotations depending on how one understands the term.
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*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
as for ur question to saif1924: the answer is "NO"! There is a clear hadith stating that it is not recommended to elect a woman for "amaarat" ... <<<
Maybe I should have asked, if a women can be the head of an Islamic state? Khalifa has other connotations depending on how one understands the term.
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as far as i can recall the word in the hadith is "ruler" so it can be any type be it a khalifa or a head of state ...
What are your thoughts on Sebah (sometimes spelled saba & at times called bilqis) who is mentioned in Quran as the ruller of her people, very wise & God fearing?
Islam and the principles of democracy are fully compatible in my view. People go on semantics to show that they are not.
One has to choose the leaders who are answerable to the public and must do work for the ppl they serve. There is a mechanism elect them
as far as the whole sovereignity business goes, the religious law is the basis on which the society is run, just like in other places a constitution is the basis. In this case the constitution can be based on religious law.
there are many other topics and issues for which the elected government will have to make its own rules. product safety guidelines maybe :) Pollution guidelines, workplace conditions, policies etc etc.
a truly islamic government is closer to democracy than many would like tot hink.
i agree but remember many of the things in previous version of islam were according to that period specifically and later when the deen was perfected in terms of current Islam, many things that were permissible before were forbidden … for instance, “Consumption of Liquor -alcohol(Sharaab)” …
so when we talk about Islamic rulings and ways, we dun go back and bring an example that was before Quran and Hadith…
I agree with Mr. Fraudia:k:
so when we talk about Islamic rulings and ways, we dun go back and bring an example that was before Quran and Hadith...
Actually its in Quran. :) If you argue that it was a merely a "story" of the past that Quran preserved than you will have to disregard much of the other teachings of Quran.
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*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
What are your thoughts on Sebah (sometimes spelled saba & at times called bilqis) who is mentioned in Quran as the ruller of her people, very wise & God fearing?
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but quran also talks of other good leaders e.g. Sulaieman/Solomon whose rule was anything but democratic since he was a king. Thats just mentioning something from the past isn't it?