Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

**The reason I ask is because i came across a quite disturbing article on Times of India.

I have read numerous posts on this forum , and almost every time people say that they are Muslims first and country / culture all come second.

So can Indian Muslims be trusted ??? Should be all be migrating to Pakistan or other Muslim countries. Why stay in India and say no I am not an Indian but a Muslim.

Although some might say well this article is about Kashmir, Kashmir’s are Pakistanis anyway. Well No. Originally Kashmir belong to Hindus, who have been driven out of Kashmir and its only in the past century that there is a Muslim majority.

But is it that all Muslims feel this way ??? If Pakistan wants Kashmir b/c they are muslims , y not all Indian Muslims then ???**

SRINAGAR: Like rest of the subcontinent, Srinagar shut down for the semifinal clash between India and Pakistan. But, the team they cheered for wasn’t the Men in Blue. In hotels and homes, at roadside stalls and in Srinagar’s downtown sprawl, in villages and small mohallas, Kashmir was rooting for Shahid Afridi and his team.

This support for Pakistan appeared to cut across caste and class, united mainstream politicians and separatists, and brought together prosperous businessmen who live half the year in Delhi and the shikarawalas who ceaselessly circle the Dal Lake.

On the day of the semifinal, children took a day off from school. India batted first and every Indian wicket prompted a blaze of firecrackers. When Pakistan started batting, every run was cheered. What does this tell us? Widespread support for Pakistan in the Valley? Not quite.

Most people who cheered for Afridi’s team have no love lost for Pakistan with its failing economy and daily violence. The reality of Pakistan has done what the Indian state could not for years: made “Kashmir banega Pakistan” vanish from all protests. All that the Kashmiris have done is separate the reality of Pakistan from the idea of Pakistan.

Thus, the murder and mayhem in Lahore and Karachi represent the reality of Pakistan; Shahid Afridi’s team in Mohali represent the idea of Pakistan. It is the best example of the mix of history, emotion, resentment and pragmatism that Kashmir is today. The generation applauding Pakistan today grew up fixated on the idea of Pakistan before the spiral of insurgency in the 90s.

“There is a connectedness, in the emotional sense, in the hearts of Kashmiris. We don’t bleed blue, we bleed green,” said Abid Hussein, a young professional.

It was at battleground Sharjah that India was humiliated. A young man spoke about how a television remote was hurled at him for cheering India in a match. And it was his grandfather who did so. The generation today is older. They have become politicians and businessmen firm in their knowledge that India is the way forward for Kashmir. They shake their heads at every blast in Pakistan. But once it comes to anything that represents the idea of Pakistan, like the Pakistani cricket team, they remember their love for it.

“In spite of my saying I’ll never support Pakistan after they lose, I end up watching them play. Ath wanan (it means) true love. We curse them, we abuse them, we hate them but also always love them. Kashmiris have a deep emotion with Pakistan, and not only because of religion,” said Farhan Faisal, a businessman.

Kashmiris are provincial in their actions, but Kashmiri nationalists in their mindset. This faultline makes them turn out and vote for bijli, sadak, pani in elections, scrutinise the increase in Central grants in the state budget, makes thousands vie for posts in the police. It also makes them throw stones and spray “Go Back India” on the walls. It makes them kit out in Pakistani colours and also makes them compliment the administration for imposing section 144 to prevent violence that would hurt business.

It makes them admire India, its plurality, its progress and its strength; and resent it for these very reasons. As Naveed Tariq described it, “I think today two matches were telecast. One which the whole world saw was played between Indian cricket team and Pakistan cricket team and was played in the spirit of the game. The other which some Kashmiris saw was played between the Indian Army team and Kashmiris.”

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

Muslims are always Muslims first, but that doesn't mean Muslims cannot be loyal to the country they live in. Under Islam I'd still be required to follow the laws of the land wherever I go.

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

**we are NOT Individualistic in Islam...we are rather Pluristic so our sense of brotherhood is more important than anything else. Having said that, it doesn't mean that we can NOT be loyal to our country of birth...just like, we follow the laws of Allah as well as laws of the land...don't we?

don't forget that in Indian army there are a good number of Muslims...and they did well in all the wars...just like american Muslims are in the US army and they did go to Iraq, AfGhanistan and other war zones to fight the war along with their american counterpart.

we ought to be "balanced' in our approach to our loyalty towards our religion and motherland. agree???

for us, 'allaamah Iqbal said:


fard qaa'im rabt-e-millat se hai, tanhaa kuchh nahiiN
mouj hai daryaa meN, be_roon-e-daryaa kuchh nahiiN

i wud translate this as:**

[Individual is interlocked with brotherhood, solitary existence mean nothing
like waves are connected to the sea, outside the sea they are nothing]**

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

I think Indian Muslims or Muslims anywhere in the World can be Loyal to the land they live in for sure. Naturally Muslims may well serve the Muslim ideals but no one can deny they will stand for and probably even fight with more loyalty for a home country if that country stands with them as well.:)

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

Well said :jhanda:

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

O.P is a Pakistani in disguise.

This news he/she has brought about itself is sponsored from Rawalpindi.

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

Muslims are only 2% of the indian army, even though they are 14% of india’s population

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

Exactly and well said.

One can not forget that a section of Kashmiris are in favour of Pakistan.But that does not include each and every Kashmiri living there. Indian Muslims have always shown their loyalty and sincererity for India.Even in our winning squads**(THE WORLD CHAMIPON TEAM ),**there are three Muslims.Zaheer Khan Munaf Patel and Yousuf Pathan .Not only in this team and ikn cricket but we have had Muslim players in all the fields.

What to say more? The father of Indian Missile Technology is a Mulsim. Abdul Kalam Sir. Outr vice president is a Muslim.Lots of others and also in our Armed forces.

http://www.indiatogether.org/manushi/issue113/kargil.htm

Thousands of Delhiites lined the streets of the capital to salute their brave hero, Captain Hanifuddin, who laid down his life fighting intruders in the Kargil region. When the body was brought to the Sajjadanashin Dargah in Nizamuddin, Hindus and Muslims stood side by side to pay their respects to the martyr. Since people had lined up on both sides of the road, it took almost an hour for the cortege to traverse the short distance between the Dargah and the cemetery. People seemed overwhelmed with the reported heroics of the soldier. "The country is blessed with such brave sons who sacrifice their lives like this," said a mourner. The captain from the Rajputana Rifles was buried with full army honours as befitting a war hero. Ghulam Mohammad, who dug the grave, said: “My family has been here for nearly four generations digging graves and serving people but an honour of this kind is seldom bestowed upon anybody.” After the burial, many rushed to the grave, some offered prayers, others placed flowers, and some even collected freshly dug earth. (The Times of India, July 23, 1999)

A hill sector in Kargil has been named after him. :slight_smile:

When we have people like these brave soldiers,why should we worry about such propagandas?

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

I'd also like to add that if there are Muslims in Kashmir who don't identify themselves as Indian, the reason for that isn't Islam, there are more deep lying reasons.

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

^Not all Muslims in Kashmir are like that. :)

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

there are some indians that are hindu that are so selfish and so consumed with hate and brainwashing that should be thrown in the indian ocean. compared to that looking at india's history, the ones that fought for india and for india's independence movement too, quite a few indian muslim figures had given up their lives too for their country but aren't really recognized. maulana abul azad, ashfaqallah khan, havildar abdul hamid and so many others like jammu resident rukshana recently who fought off a militant all by herself.......it's highly insulting to an indian that is muslim to have their loyalty questioned.

islam says that a muslim is muslim first then nationality comes into the picture. i don't feel that this is so far off, my beliefs are always paramount for me i hold it just as high as love for country. you can't really compare love for religion(for most) with love for country. the two are separate, it's like comparing apples and oranges. why even ask a person to see one as being of more value than the other.

btw, i hope this thread isn't just about cricket and supporting your country's team. god help me then i ain't one of the "loyal" ones. i was supporting both india and pakistan(!!!), it's cricket, it's just a freakin sport.

payal do some research on the jammu and kashmir issue, most indians have no clue about all the different ethnicities that exist in that region. to most all are kashmiri, most don't realize that ethnic kashmiri muslims are only concentrated in the kashmir valley and the rest of j&k has so many other ethnic groups that don't share the same opinions as some rich or well to do kashmiri muslims of srinagar that are from the separatist grouping, even within the kashmiri muslim population there is such a difference in viewpoints. the issue of j&k is very very complicated, all the corrupt events that lead up to what the issue is today has made it very complicated and the sooner people realize that the better.

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

That' the point. Pakistani loyalists are there only in the valley and the valley does not represnt the whl J&K. Shia Muslims living in the borders areas have another opinion and also the opinion is different in Ladakh and in Jammu. It's a simple one.

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

why is being a muslim and being something that is not a religion be mutually exclusive

can someone be a muslim and a soccer goalie..
can someone be a muslim and be black
can someone be a muslim and speak german

where is the conflict?

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

^ Good points. :lajawab:

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

Would British Pakistanis fight on behalf of England?

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

there's an indian muslim i know that would rather get to work on his bicycle b/c he doesn't want to contribute to the pollution in his country, he has all of rabinranath tagore's patriotic poems memorized and hold weekly meetings discussing his various poems, he sees himself as a muslim through and through, islam is his first love and he also intensely loves the foundations on which india was founded on, he sees india's constitution as one of the best out there for respect of all religious groups, very secular. He's strongly rooted in India and has an intense love for it

payal why don't you go live in pakistan, i don't get why you're so eager to send indian muslims to pakistan. should i go to pakistan too b/c i feel that both countries should prosper and have good relations so south asia can progress together, put the rivalries behind and move forward?

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

I don't much care about the arguments, the philosophy and all that. This world cup, none of my Indian Muslim friends were any less excited for India than any other Indian.

An Indian friend constantly asked another Indian muslim friend of mine who she is supporting. Why is it hard to believe that her loyalties lie with India?

Why is this forum a representative? How does it matter what the people on this forum say? How many Indian Muslims do you see on here?

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

I am a Muslim a British Pakistani. I have close ties with security establishments and the British Armed Forces.

I would gladly serve the Armed Forces of Great Britian as a Civil Defence Volunteer (Civil Defence is no longer active :frowning: ) I would gladly sign up to defend the British Isles from any invasion or external threat such as Terrorist Attack etc.

What I will not do and do not have to do, is go out and fight a War contrary to my beliefs and which is against international Law. If I was in UK during 2001 I would have signed up for Afghanistan but not for the 2003 Invasion of Iraq which was Illegal.

Since I am not directly under the influence of Whitehall I do not have to conform to any standards however on a day to day purpose I am proud that I serve the British Public as a whole and shall continue to serve my communtiy and the wider Public. :salute:

I can still be devout Muslim a fervent Pakistani Patriot :jhanda: and I can still show the Brits how good we are as fighters even 7000 miles from home. :faris:

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

Truth be told, very many Indian Muslims will have divided loyalties, particularly those with strong parental ties. Lets remember that most Indian Muslims voted overwhelmingly (almost 90%) for the party that advocated Pakistan one year before partition. The party had particularly strong support in now-Indian areas where there is a high concentration of Muslims today. Some 7 million Muslims went over to Pakistan. The rest are still there. The rest, 90% of whos grandparents, most of whom would have been alive till recently, voted for, agitated for, protested for Pakistan. How can that view of Pakistan fail to be passed onto generations? In my experience people from that earliest generation see Pakistan as mothers see wayward sons.. some disillusionment in what happened to what they fought for.. but in no way the kind of view a Hindu or a Sikh might have of Pakistan.

Re: Can Indian Muslims be loyal to India ??

Very good thread in terms of quality of contributions. I will come back and add my thoughts