It never fails to amaze me how this whole Sayyed and Non-Sayyed divide is found in the subcontinent and not in the Arab countries where presumably we should be able to find more people claiming lineage to the Prophet PBUH... and yes, when it comes to this issue... equality gayi bhaar mey - what hypocrisy really!
This is how we roll in the sub-c. Association 1 Merit 0
It never fails to amaze me how this whole Sayyed and Non-Sayyed divide is found in the subcontinent and not in the Arab countries where presumably we should be able to find more people claiming lineage to the Prophet PBUH
You don't know what you're talking about.
There are Syed families throughout the Middle East. Just off the top of my head, the royal family of Jordan (as well as their cousins, the erstwhile royal family of Iraq) claim descent from the Prophet. So does the Moroccan royal family. Syed Qutb of Egypt; the Lebanese Ayatollah Fadlallah of Hezbollah; Ayatollah Sistani of Iraq; Ayatollahs Khomeni & Khamenei, Mir-Hossein Mousavi, Mohammad Khatami, and the former Shahbanou of Iran...all of them are of Syed descent.
The fact that you apparently haven't heard of saadaat outside of South Asia doesn't mean that they don't exist.
ok i know this topic might have been discussed before....but it's really important for me.. if a syed sunni i repeat sunni not syed shia .......if a syed sunni girl wants to marry a non syed sunni boy then is it haram? plz tell me.. n btw what is the difference between syed sunni and syed shia?
Yes. It is haram and one of the biggest sin and if they ever do they need to be put in jail forever without parole.
Yes, big difference between them, Syeds are born with hidden golden wings and others do not. Sorry you cannot see those wings with naked eyes.
;)
Re: can a Syed SUNII Girl marry a non-syed boy??
If he is a practicing muslim, then yes. Isn't marrying a decent muslim man better than marrying a SYED SUNNI muslim who doesn't even know the kalma.
I genuinely cannot believe some people have implied that it's not 'compatible' for a Syed to marry a non Syed. Ridiculous. Also, the term 'Haram' doesn't even come into play here.
Re: can a Syed SUNII Girl marry a non-syed boy??
Peace All
First off ... We need to get something understood. Islam is not about equality. It is about equitability. It is about fairness to all parties.
There are recommendations and then there are rules. The reasons for lineage taken in to consideration is due to the wisdom behind the fact that if two people from different backgrounds come together they are likely to misunderstand one another moreso than if they come from a similar one. There is a hadith where a Sahabiya (who was won in booty) complained for being alloted to a poor sahabi, her basis was that she was from high descent and she was being given to a low person who would not be able to deal with her needs. The prophet Muhammad (SAW) asked her if he (SAW) was suitable and she agreed. Hence, she became one of the mothers of the believers.
So from this hadith it is clear that lineage is a 'commendable' thing to match in order to be just to both parties.
Also there is another reason. We are informed to take care of the family of the prophet (SAW). However, the man is appointed as leader of the household. It would be better for a sayyidah that her husband be a Sayyid so that no one else can be held accountable for mistreating a Sayyid.
Ofcourse, piety breaks all boundaries. When a person is seen for his piety then none of the other things matter as much since a pious person is noble and can deal with justice easily. A pious person will also be humble and never oppress his wife.
It is unlike the Hindu caste system, where it is allowed for a higher to oppress lower classes. Islam does not allow any class to oppress or be oppressed, but it acknowledges that people come from a multitude of different backgrounds and hence have different needs.
If a woman meets any 3 of 4 admirable traits for marriage then she can demand certain rights from her husband since by becoming married to him it was her who made the sacrifice.
What a great sacrifice it would be for a woman to give up her childrens heritage of Sayyid by marrying a non-Sayyid, however if he is pious at least she can be happy and hope for piety to spread in her family.
May Allah (SWT) shower his Peace and Blessings on His prophet (SAW), his (SAW) family and companions.
this is by far the best response I have read to the topic thusfar.
i myself come from a Syed family and while our family prefers to marry within Syeds they are not completely against it nor have i ever heard that it is haram to do so
i would also like to point out for the OP that shia-ism and sunni-ism are belief systems whereas syed is sort of a cast what your family's lineage is
not all syeds are sunnis and not all are shias
similarly not all shias are syeds and not all sunnis are syeds
you can be a syed but you can also be shia, sunni, wahabi etc
similarly you can be a shaikh or jatt and also be shia, sunni, wahabi
am I making sense ? lol
but yeah it is not haram for a syed to marry a non syed it is just that some syed familys prefer to marry their offspring into syed families... matter of personal preference
haram is like if someone married their muslim daughter off to a nonmuslim man .... or if a muslim family decided all they want to eat is pork .... syed girl or syed boy marrying a non syed is not a sin and therefore it is certainly not haram
Peace All
First off ... We need to get something understood. Islam is not about equality. It is about equitability. It is about fairness to all parties.
There are recommendations and then there are rules. The reasons for lineage taken in to consideration is due to the wisdom behind the fact that if two people from different backgrounds come together they are likely to misunderstand one another moreso than if they come from a similar one. There is a hadith where a Sahabiya (who was won in booty) complained for being alloted to a poor sahabi, her basis was that she was from high descent and she was being given to a low person who would not be able to deal with her needs. The prophet Muhammad (SAW) asked her if he (SAW) was suitable and she agreed. Hence, she became one of the mothers of the believers.
So from this hadith it is clear that lineage is a 'commendable' thing to match in order to be just to both parties.
Also there is another reason. We are informed to take care of the family of the prophet (SAW). However, the man is appointed as leader of the household. It would be better for a sayyidah that her husband be a Sayyid so that no one else can be held accountable for mistreating a Sayyid.
Ofcourse, piety breaks all boundaries. When a person is seen for his piety then none of the other things matter as much since a pious person is noble and can deal with justice easily. A pious person will also be humble and never oppress his wife.
It is unlike the Hindu caste system, where it is allowed for a higher to oppress lower classes. Islam does not allow any class to oppress or be oppressed, but it acknowledges that people come from a multitude of different backgrounds and hence have different needs.
If a woman meets any 3 of 4 admirable traits for marriage then she can demand certain rights from her husband since by becoming married to him it was her who made the sacrifice.
What a great sacrifice it would be for a woman to give up her childrens heritage of Sayyid by marrying a non-Sayyid, however if he is pious at least she can be happy and hope for piety to spread in her family.
May Allah (SWT) shower his Peace and Blessings on His prophet (SAW), his (SAW) family and companions.
this is by far the best response I have read to the topic thusfar.
i myself come from a Syed family and while our family prefers to marry within Syeds they are not completely against it nor have i ever heard that it is haram to do so
i would also like to point out for the OP that shia-ism and sunni-ism are belief systems whereas syed is sort of a cast what your family's lineage is
not all syeds are sunnis and not all are shias similarly not all shias are syeds and not all sunnis are syeds
you can be a syed but you can also be shia, sunni, wahabi etc similarly you can be a shaikh or jatt and also be shia, sunni, wahabi
am I making sense ? lol
but yeah it is not haram for a syed to marry a non syed it is just that some syed familys prefer to marry their offspring into syed families... matter of personal preference
haram is like if someone married their muslim daughter off to a nonmuslim man .... or if a muslim family decided all they want to eat is pork .... syed girl or syed boy marrying a non syed is not a sin and therefore it is certainly not haram
Peace sister
May Allah (SWT) shower his blessings on you, the best response belongs to cricketplaya who quoted from a reference of an 'alim, I merely tried to explain why, because I saw that people read what the 'alim wrote and drew their own perspectives and could not see the other view clearly.
I guess before we jump in to condemn based on our own visions we should ask ourselves from what perspective is something being said, and try to put ourselves in a different mindset. We should not cast our thoughts but try to read the thoughts of others. We should try hard to have good opinions of others which will then enable us to see the light of the angle of argumentation from other perspectives. I fail on this all the time myself so I am no different.
Re: can a Syed SUNII Girl marry a non-syed boy??
salaam bro.... you're ryte
live and learn :)
Istaghfir'allah
If Islam has set conditions of lineage for marriage then all lectures on equality of Muslims and superiority only on the basis of Taqwa is wrong ( doesn't matter what logic one have)
There are no conditions whatsoever for a marriage... yes there are some things we may consider based on the social values and compatibility... but saying a non-syed cannot marry to syed is like a non-brahmin cannot marry a brahmin
Agree with this post.
This so called fatwa has no meaning since the fatwa giver has made few blunders. I read the bold part and the linked site.
He thinks a wali is important so much that one cannot marry without his consent...even if the person (the woman) is an adult.
No wali can ever make a woman marry someone or annul her marriage if she wants to. She can 'fire' the wali if she wants in other words.
He has assumed that the person is under age limit of consenting.
ONLY thing which matters in islam is taqwa and some other compatibilities and lineage has absolutely no value in terms of marrying someone.
Islam does not promote racism even in the lighter sense.
What psyah bro posted the example has nothing to do with the issue of syed or non-syed or lineage IMHO.
Re: can a Syed SUNII Girl marry a non-syed boy??
^ psyah bro post does mention lineage and he explained why. The answer by the aalim does make sense. Your thinking in western terms too much because your denying of wali is clearly stating that fact. What are your sources?
Peace Psyah!
Agree (or no big issue) with green part but not with red part.
The example ( I have not read the source but merely going by your words) you have given has to do with a sahabi being poor and was not liked by the oman and when the prophet SAW offered his companionship, she agreed.
OK. So where does lineage come in to play here in terms of what OP asked about syed and non-syed or sunni or shia syed?? These terms were not even in to play back then. 
All it showed that she felt more comfortable with companionship of the prophet SAW. Which is fine. There was not even an issue of compatibility here since both the prophet SAW and immuml=mominineen did not even know each other prior to that. She (RA), just did not like that sahabi (RA)being poor or for whatever reason.
Other paragraph has to do with the husband who is not syed and marries to syed wife. When you clarified below in green part that man has to be pious then it is OK to marry but in red part yuou mentioned
Does this mean it is OK for her to marry a syed husband so in case of him mistreating her that will be acceptable or better in any sense but not when a non syed mistreating her?
Peace diwana
To answer the first part, the specific complaint raised was that she (RA) was a princess to her tribe, yet she was alloted to a poor/peasant man. She wanted (even though a slave at the time) a suitor who was compatible to her standards. Her claim was granted.
The second point you have asked me a question. I don’t think you have asked me that in good taste, or do you expect that I will reply “yes” to it? You should be able to work out that it is not a matter of whether he is or is not mistreating her, but a matter of whether she feels mistreated. Then for her to use her lineage as a means to defend herself and in which case could cause him to disregard her lineage in an argument or to become subdued to her out of her weilding her trump card. It is to do with the dynamics of relationships. Are you married diwana? If you are you should know all this.
Agree with this post.
This so called fatwa has no meaning since the fatwa giver has made few blunders. I read the bold part and the linked site.
He thinks a wali is important so much that one cannot marry without his consent...even if the person (the woman) is an adult.
No wali can ever make a woman marry someone or annul her marriage if she wants to. She can 'fire' the wali if she wants in other words.
He has assumed that the person is under age limit of consenting.
**ONLY thing which matters in islam is taqwa **and some other compatibilities and lineage has absolutely no value in terms of marrying someone.
Islam does not promote racism even in the lighter sense.
What psyah bro posted the example has nothing to do with the issue of syed or non-syed or lineage IMHO.
That is it brother, you nailed it right...
but for those who wants short-cuts, taqwa is secondary object....
Re: can a Syed SUNII Girl marry a non-syed boy??
yes its tottaly halal because in Islam women can marry a person of his choice but she should give preference and listen to her parents opinions
Re: can a Syed SUNII Girl marry a non-syed boy??
I think any Muslim who says and believes on this Kalma
LA ILAHA ILL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASOOL ALLAH
can marry with any other Muslims who also say and believe on above kalma
Re: can a Syed SUNII Girl marry a non-syed boy??
i also don't know the difference but i guess 4 a person it is enough that he or she is muslim,i don't believe on cast system. if a person act upon Allah's given paths then there shud not be any question that from which cast he/she belongs.
Re: can a Syed SUNII Girl marry a non-syed boy??
hi, when Pak will go for Peace,, can u suggest
Peace diwana
To answer the first part, the specific complaint raised was that she (RA) was a princess to her tribe, yet she was alloted to a poor/peasant man. She wanted (even though a slave at the time) a suitor who was compatible to her standards. Her claim was granted.
Peace Psyah again:
1-I did mention that syed and non syed as not even a part of discussion back when this event happen. hence not applicable.
2- More importantly, the prophet SAW had no objection for her to be with someone who did not belong to her RA lineage. Right?
It was her RA who did not want to be married to someone who was poor and was not to her caliber. Hence here her wish was more important not her lineage!
The prophet SAW and his sahaba RA did not look for lineage in women nor their women looked for lineage in men before they married to each other... bro!
Please bring a strong example in this regard. :)
The second point you have asked me a question. I don't think you have asked me that in good taste, or do you expect that I will reply "yes" to it? You should be able to work out that it is not a matter of whether he is or is not mistreating her, but a matter of whether she feels mistreated. Then for her to use her lineage as a means to defend herself and in which case could cause him to disregard her lineage in an argument or to become subdued to her out of her weilding her trump card. It is to do with the dynamics of relationships. Are you married diwana? If you are you should know all this.
Wow!
How did you come in to this conclusion? :(
First, your statement was clear enough that your position is that somehow syeds are so respectful that a syeddah should get married to a syed "so no one else can be held responsible for her mistreatment".
I did not have to ask but wanted to give you benefit of doubt knowing that you have good grasp over religion but it was simply very unusual and false position to take for someone to justify a syeddah to marry only a syed or 'better' to be married to a syed!
Please read other posts. I do not think anyone in good sense will agree that lineage has any bearing on ability to marry anyone.
Islam came to abolish this practice, not confirm or condone it by any direct or indirect, hidden or open means.
Rest of your explanation is again based on some high regard to someone who has claim of lineage of the prophet SAW.
No where in islam as many of us understand that the respect is do high that the person cannot be admonished or be told what is wrong with that person in an argument. She cannot use her lineage to defend any bad deed..period!
If anything, there may be more responsibility on her (or anyone claims to be a syed) part to be good.
Alhamdulillah..So far I have no problem understanding men women relationships Bhai Sahab! :)
Peace Psyah again:
1-I did mention that syed and non syed as not even a part of discussion back when this event happen. hence not applicable.
2- More importantly, the prophet SAW had no objection for her to be with someone who did not belong to her RA lineage. Right?
It was her RA who did not want to be married to someone who was poor and was not to her caliber. Hence here her wish was more important not her lineage!
The prophet SAW and his sahaba RA did not look for lineage in women nor their women looked for lineage in men before they married to each other... bro!
Please bring a strong example in this regard. :)
Wow!
How did you come in to this conclusion? :(
First, your statement was clear enough that your position is that somehow syeds are so respectful that a syeddah should get married to a syed "so no one else can be held responsible for her mistreatment".
I did not have to ask but wanted to give you benefit of doubt knowing that you have good grasp over religion but it was simply very unusual and false position to take for someone to justify a syeddah to marry only a syed or 'better' to be married to a syed!
Please read other posts. I do not think anyone in good sense will agree that lineage has any bearing on ability to marry anyone.
Islam came to abolish this practice, not confirm or condone it by any direct or indirect, hidden or open means.
Rest of your explanation is again based on some high regard to someone who has claim of lineage of the prophet SAW.
No where in islam as many of us understand that the respect is do high that the person cannot be admonished or be told what is wrong with that person in an argument. She cannot use her lineage to defend any bad deed..period!
If anything, there may be more responsibility on her (or anyone claims to be a syed) part to be good.
Alhamdulillah..So far I have no problem understanding men women relationships Bhai Sahab! :)
Peace diwana
First of all, when I meant 'good taste' I meant it in the way that you could have answered the question for me. So I was saying that you are able to decipher the very thing you are asking me for yourself, there is no reason to ask that question.
The next thing is from that hadith you say it is "her wish" that is important, and I say if it was a matter of "abolishing a bad practice" then this would not have been allowed. Now this is a matter of conflict between us, we won't resolve it at least acknowledge there is a basis for it, then we can move on.
Now what is it that Islam came to abolish? There are many seemingly ups and downs that Islam promotes not just this one ...
The up and down of husband to his wife, the up and down of mother to her children over father to his children, the up and down of learned to a lay man, the up and down of elderly to the youth and so on ... equality in the mind of the way the West has placed it will equate these two. Alhumdulillah it still has some respect for handicapped and elderly, familes over singles and so on.
The difference is that these ups and downs are role orientated and justice orientated. A slave is better than his master if he is more pious, but it does not say that the slave necessarily has to be free, however it is prefered to be this way.
Lineage is important. If we don't have regard for the lineage then we won't have knowledge of it ... and knowledge of it is important for the Mahdi will be from the family, just one example.
Instead of looking at it in a bad way think of this. That if only pious outsiders are allowed to marry into Sayyids that will bear towards the piety of the family as a whole.
Also, there is a talk about this very topic and your last conclusion is in it. The Shaykh said that it is a greater responsibility of a Sayyid to be pious than members of other families.
Ok I agree you understand men and women relationships ... you didn't have to answer that part by the way ... LOL
Peace to you bro