CAN A MUSLIM WOMAN DIVORCE HER HUSBAND?

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Can I ask where you got the translation from Logical??????? ( that is all I am asking!!)

I have also heard that in Saudi Arabia,actually it is universal, but especially in Saudi men are always interpreting the Quran to suit themselves and when it suits the woman they conveniently forget those verses.Your following statement:
"Thus the husband can forbid her family visiting her or his wife from visiting her family."

Why on earth would God impose this
restriction??????

[This message has been edited by designer (edited May 12, 2000).]

I would like someone to clarify something for me. I was told/and read that in our prophets(PBUH) society a woman went to him and said she wanted a divorce from her husband. When asked why she said she was not physically attracted to him. Our prophet said she had a right to divorce him and so granted her a divorce.
Is this REALLY true?? And please I would like someone with hardcore evidence to answer this, not just some immature person with hardly a braincell raising other stupid and irrelevant questions.

[This message has been edited by designer (edited May 12, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by designer (edited May 12, 2000).]

22

Bakhatyr,

      Firstly  Do not judge other people by your own standards.  Is it too hard for you to think that someone might have a good relationship with their husband/wife???? Which is the reason behind no abuse.

Secondly how dare you talk about my husband like that! I know one thing and that is that he is definitely more intelligent than you!!

P.S your intelligence is under question, especially when you cant even copy a name from the screen!!!

[This message has been edited by designer (edited May 12, 2000).]

23

desinger...>>Is this REALLY true?? And please I would like someone with hardcore evidence to answer this, not just some immature person with hardly a braincell raising other stupid and irrelevant questions.<<

:)I do not know. I have not heard that story. I am however, qouting the from the following page, wherein someone had asked the scholar about woman asking for divorce.

Q168 :The woman's right to demand divorce

A168 : The woman who cannot bear to live with her husband has the right to free herself from the marriage bond by returning to her husband the mahr (required marriage gift) and gifts he has given her, or more or less than that according to their mutual agreement. It is, however, preferable that he should not ask for more than he has given her. Allah Ta'ala says: ...And if you fear that the two may not be able to keep to the limits ordained by Allah, there is no blame on either of them if she redeems herself ...(2:229) The wife of Thabit bin Qais came to the Prophet and said, "O Messenger of Allah, I do not approach Thabit bin Qais in respect of character and religion, but I do not want to be guilty of showing anger to him." The Prophet asked her about what she had received from him. She replied, "A garden". He asked, "Will you give him back his garden?" "Yes", she said. The Prophet then told Thabit, "Accept the garden and make one declaration of divorce." It is not permissible for a woman to seek divorce from her husband unless she has borne ill-treatment from him or unless she has an acceptable reason which requires their separation. Said the Prophet, "If any woman asks her husband for a divorce without some strong reason, the fragrance of the Garden will be forbidden to her."

Our Dialogue ( Source : Arab News - Jeddah )

Unqoute

designer....>>P.S your intelligence is under question, especially when you cant even copy a name from the screen!!!<<

I am sorry if you felt offended. I have never insulted anyone. Nor was I trying to redicule you or your beloved husband. Surely he must be much more intellegent that me. Otherwise why would he marry you!! I was asking you questions in the light of your earlier post. These were not my pronouncements.

And if the above argument of yours is valid, then I am affraid to say that your intelligence is under question too, as you also could not copy my screen name. But let us put all this behind us.

Kind regards.

24

This is not a religious discussion.
My sister was married to an ahole. She and her lawyer, Asma Jehangir, successfully filed for a divorce in one of the local courts in Lahore. Judge agreed with my sister and awarded her a divorce against her husband. It took her only four months.

25

My sister is a muslim. So is her lawyer and the judge...

26

1) ARE MEN SUPERIOR UNDER ISLAM & QURAN?.........Yes, Agreed!
What are you talking about ???
How are men superior????
Just cuz you interpret it differently and dont know the true meaning behind what you have said & just because you are so ignorant, does not mean men are superior.
MEN & WOMEN BOTH HAVE THE SAME STATUS IN ISLAM, THE ONLY SUPERIOR PEOPLE ARE THOSE WITH THE BEST EEMAN, OR THE HIGHEST PIETY.

2) Islamic law recognises the husband's right to DISCIPLINE his wife for disobedience.......Agreed!
NO!!!NO!!!NO!!!
The husband cannot discipline his wife, unless & until all other forms of prescibed actions have been fulfilled & he can ionly discipline her if she is disobeying allah(swt's) commands and not discipline her cuz he does not like the cooking or something silly. Society has totally changed the perspective of this verse in the quran. And the form of discipline that is allowed is to tap her lightly with a miswaak and so light that it does not leave a mark 7 also not on the face...BUT, BUT, BUT, Only if she is disobeying allah (swt's) commands and this form of discipline is allowed after all other forms of action have been done in order to make her realize her mistake.

3) Islamic legal concept called qisas and diyat, a blood relative of a victim can formally "forgive" a crime in exchange for payment........Agreed!
WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH WOMEN????
This is not the correct Islamic Ruling though. You need to stop being ignorant.

4) Rape against woman can only be proven if there are four adult male witnesses .....Agreed!
Not just rape, any crime that needs to be proven, needs to have four males witnesses or 8 female witnesses.

5) A female's testimony is not even taken as half-value in the case of capital crimes......Agreed!
Testimonies of two females = 1 male.

6) Islamic laws of inheritance, similarly, discriminates against females and widows...... Agreed!
Your so stupid & ignorant.
Islamic law of inheritance gives females relatives less money then the male relatives, TRUE.
Whats the reason behind it though ?
Because the woman does not take care of the financial needs of her household, therefore the male members of a household inherit more since they are the sole providers to their families and female inheritance is not meant for the household, its meant for her personal self but if she chooses to give it to her husband then thats a different issue.
So check your level of knowledge, before you start jumping to conclusions. thanks.

7) In Egypt the punishment for an adulteress is two years' prison sentence. For the man the punishment is only six months...... Agreed!
Thats Egypt & not Islamic Law.
By the way, there aint no Muslim Country in the world today, so you cant look at a country's law & just cuz it has a so called muslims population then deduce that the law in that country reflects the Islamic Law.. Doesn't work that way. You need to have a little better IQ level than what you have.

8)The least approved form of divorce is Talaq al-bida where the husband says to the wife: "Talaq. Talaq. Talaq"......Agreed!
NOT APPROVED AT ALL.
This form of divorce is not acceptable in Islam...Its NOT acceptable, cuz that is improper use of the word talaaq and saying it three different times with at least a month's differeance in between the 3 times it is said.

9) It is not permissible for a woman to seek divorce from her husband unless she has borne ill-treatment..... Agreed!
SAME IS VICE-VESA...
A husband cannot divorce a wife just cuz he feels like it or does not like her anymore..
Divorce is the most hated permissible actions in the sight of allah (swt).

10) Man can have up to four wives..... Agreed!
What's the reason behind it dummy ?
The reason behind this is that in any given society, there are always more woman then men. Thats due to the fact that women live longer than men and also cuz men go out to wars & are out of the house more than the woman and therefore get in more accidents that kill and get diseases fro outside that kill.. So look at stats and see that there are more women then men in any given country, therfore each and every single women cannot have a household of her own and cannot have her desires fulfilled which will lead to fornication & adultrey & the society gets corrupted and Aids & illegal pregnancies occur. Therefore 4 marriages are allowed but that also if the man can treat each of his wives equal, 100% equal.

11) According to lawyers and women's rights advocates, many such cases (violence against women) are never brought to trial..... Agreed!
WHY BLAME ISLAM ON THAT ????

12)They say police are easily bribed or persuaded by the men's families to dismiss the complaints as "domestic accidents."...... Agreed!
WHY BLAME ISLAM ???????

13) Many victims, especially uneducated women confined to their husband's homes, are too intimidated to press charges......Agreed!
WHY BLAME ISLAM...SOCIETY IS TO BLAME..

14) Sections of society continued to regard any expression of independence by women as an infamy.....Agreed!
WHY BLAME ISLAM??? SOCIETY IS TO BLAME..

15) the only way to restore the family's honor was to promptly put an end to the life of the transgressor(women).......Agreed!
WHY BLAME ISLAM...SOCIETY IS TO BLAME..

16) Domestic violence was widely considered "NORMAL" behaviour--even by the victims themselves......Agreed!
WHY BLAME ISLAM...SOCIETY IS TO BLAME..

17) WOULD SHE DARE ASK FOR DIVORCE? Most Muslim women Dare not!.......Agreed!
WHY BLAME ISLAM...SOCIETY IS TO BLAME..

Try to get your thougths straight & also try to get some knowledge before you jump to any conclusions.

27

Baykhatr,
HA HA got me eh!!!
I dont hold grudges Baykhatr. Any ways thanks for the reply of my question, which seems like a plausible account.

28

Woman , historically have been considered inferiour to men...
( Primates , that we evolved from , have male dominated groups, with as many females as they could manage to keep . THat is where Human cultural evolution started, it has come a long way , still not perfect.
Aristotle and shoepenhaure are prime examples of male thinking regarding woman over the centuries.
I was reading discussions of famous 18th century French Biologists( i am talking about pillars like Broca )about empirical evidence to teh well known fact of woman being inferior....
I am positive that preislamic society very strongly tilted in favour of men , and Islam was a significant jump for woman , at that time....Lets not forget , Islam is a 1500 yr old system , and cultural evolution didnt stop there..
Islam does not treat woman as equal , and tahts that....

29

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30

Masha-Allah!
Another masterpiece - logical!

31

[quote]
Originally posted by Kaleem:
**Abdulmalick

Rani

Actually this is not meaningless crap i am talking about, I saw a documentary on TLC (the learning channel) whcih showed this horrific crime against women. According to their studies this happens a lot in India and is always covered up.

Kaleem**
[/quote]

Kaleem before passing judgement on your Indian neighbours, look into your own country and see how women are being treated. especially those of a religion other than Islam. Read the Reader's Digest ( I think it was the November or December's issue of last year )
My apologies if this is a bit out of context, but there is good and evil in all societies, cultures and religions ( although the latter is forbidden in all codes of human and divine law) So don't go on genralizing or picking on someone who is not of your belief or culture.
Remember God has permitted diversity of humanity for his/her own glory, or else there would be just one culture/religion, since creation. ( or evolution, whatever your belief is )

32

Blitz,

Please pay attention to the whole argument. My post was a response to another post. Also, if you have followed posts in other topics you will see that there are alot of people who like to generalize things about Islam, and my post was just a reaction.

regards,

Kaleem

33

Kaleem

There is no generaliztion here - 100% truth.

34

outlaw, lets sharia ruled in pak and tell me how many sisters will be able to get divorce.

35

The sharia laws are for "all eternity" so expect muslim women to be degraded for "all eternity".

Unless, they unite and shove down these outdated & obsolete laws down or up the man's hole of their choice.

Only Quran and authentic hadiths are for "all eternity" and, NOT the laws drafted to govern daily life in a complex, everchanging world!

36

“WOULD SHE DARE ASK FOR DIVORCE? “

It’s a good question. And your right, given the circumstances she probably would not. But Logical, your reasoning is far from LOGICAL…its OFFENSIVE…

1) First off you have a little rant about “honor killings”. Ok, we ALL agree this type of behaviour is unacceptable. Is it Islamic? NO. ** One of the first decrees in the Qur’an is the immediate stoppage of female infanticide ** . Female infanticide WAS an honour killing…that means STOP ALL HONOR KILLING.
2) You quote verse 4:34, which is quite clear in its contention that ** men and women are NOT EQUAL. Islam advocates this and rather than promote EQUALITY of genders, promotes EQUITY ** . In some respects women have rights over men and in others men over women. But men and women are NOT EQUAL.
3) As far as ** qisas and diyat are concerned, neither contribute to violence against women, they are simply an OPTION ** available to the family members of victims. They can opt for mercy or for revenge…
4) ** A husband is not permitted to batter his wife in Islam and neither a wife permitted to batter her husband ** . There are NO exceptions…the Prophets did not abuse women…
5) Rape as far as I understand it, does not require four male witnesses. As far as I understand it ** adultery requires four witnesses, whether they be male or female, I don’t think is a issue ** .
6) ** Women’s testimony is EQUAL to a mans in all cases ** , except those involving business transactions where men would have greater knowledge.
7) In the ** Qur’an the death penalty is only advocated for ONE crime and that is murder ** – only ALLAH has the right to take life.
8) Your discussion of the ** zina laws ** in Pakistan is a valid one. ** The law is hardly Islamic ** and should be reformed, its based on a misinterpretation of Islamic law. It confuses adultery with rape.
9) ** Egypt is hardly an Islamic country – in fact they JAIL Muslim scholars ** in Egypt daily. Amnesty International rallies for their freedom, check their website for details. So there laws can't be viewed as Islamic as such (and there NOT).
10) ** In Islam men are encouraged to have ONE wife only ** . Under EXCEPTIONAL circumstances they can have FOUR. Such circumstances are difficult to find. One recent case was the Afghan war, where women widows out numbered men by 75%.
11) Islamic guidelines for inheritance are just that guidelines. They are not strict codes to be followed. ** Allah advocates JUSTICE and EQUITY. If unjustice is being created through the distribution of inheritance it is unIslamic ** . You are not permitted in Islam to horde your wealth from your family.
12) In Islam a woman can divorce her husband if he is unable to perform sexually. ** Islam doesn’t make it difficult to divorce, if the circumstances are such that divorce becomes necessary. Islam doesn’t encourage divorce, but its not an obstacle to divorce. The obstacles you confuse with religion are in fact cultural, institutional (i.e. law enforcement) and misinterpretations of Islam **.

You provide this disturbing statistic:

“Human Rights Commission of Pakistan reported that in 1998 and 1999, more than 850 women were killed by their husbands, brothers, fathers or other relatives in Punjab province alone.”

No doubt that is disturbing. These cases don’t go to trial because of INEFFICIENT and INEFFECTIVE law enforcement, not ISLAM. Even the Human Rights Commission you are quoting realizes this.

On another note, I don’t think you truly care about women’s rights or violence against women. You’re more concerned with your crusade against Islam. These types of crimes occur all over the world, regardless of religion. Nova pointed this out in his post. Patriarchy is alive and well, in Islamic cultures and otherwise. Here are some equally disturbing statistics from the US and Canada:

“ ** 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 8 boys will be sexually assaulted before they reach the age of 18 ** . (Badgley, Robin 1984). Sexual Offences Against Children and Youth in Canada. Ottawa: Supply and Services Canada.)

Nearly ** one-fifth of women (18 percent) reported experiencing a completed or attempted rape at some time in their lives ** ; one in 33 men (3 percent) reported experiencing a completed or attempted rape at some time in their lives. (U.S. Department of Justice, Violence-Related Injuries Treated in Hospital Emergency Departments, August 1997.)

With regard to other types of sexual offence, ** 50% of female victims were under age 12, 36% were from 12 to 17 years old, and 14% were adults ** . (Tremblay, S. (July 1999). "Crime Statistics in Canada, 1998," Juristat 19(9). Ottawa: Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, Statistics Canada, 25 p.)

Are these women being abused because of North American secular values? Probably in part yes, but there is a horde of other factors. Lets not forget those...

Achtung

[This message has been edited by Achtung (edited June 01, 2000).]

37

The stats on Canada and US that Achtung has offered are next to impossible to be gathered for Pakistan and other Islamic Countries. The situation of women in the West is no way near what it is in Pakistan. If crimes against women don’t get reported it is not to say that it doesn’t happen.

Achtung, female infanticide is not the same as honor killing. Both are horrific but totally different. Get Quran off of your head and use your brains for once.

38

Achtung, female infanticide is not the same as honor killing. Both are horrific but totally different. Get Quran off of your head and use your brains for once<<

Female infanticide is about honor. In certain cultures a male child is held in high esteem, while female children have the "potential" of dishonoring the family. My point was that Islam outlawed female infanticide and in the same breath honor killings. Ahmadi if you have evidence to point that the Islam advocates honor killings please educate me...

My point in mentioning statistics from the US and Canada was simply that generalizing about any community regardless of its ethnicity, culture or religion is useless. Violence against women occurs across borders and its unjust wherever it occurs. The statistics in Canada and the US are underestimates as well, most crimes go unreported....

It is difficult for a woman to divorce her husband in Islamic cultures...I AGREE...but its not just religion that stands in her way...

Achtung

39

Dear Achtung, I never said and never will that any religion advocates Honor Killings. Islam does not condone such an act and it is obvious from various readings that I have come across. My point was that female infanticide occurred in many cultures before the advent of monotheism, and the reasons for killing baby girls were more to do with economics and less to do with honor. It still happens in many places around the world. I think, Quran prescribes punishment for (any and all) killings, and female infanticide is covered under that umbrella. If you misunderstood my point, I apologize, but it was not my intent to say that Quran encourages such horrific acts. I think, if it did, there won’t be any Muslim females left. What we have is a very screwed up interpretation of Religious teaching dirtied with our own interest, be that political or economic.

40

Achtung says:
"...but its not just religion that stands in her way..."

I beg to disagree! Islam is the complete way of life; it affects every aspect of our life, including culture & traditions.

So, when you say "It is difficult for a woman to divorce her husband in Islamic cultures...I AGREE...but its not just religion that stands in her way..."

Actually, it is Religion that stands in the way; or, to be more precise - the 1200 year old sharia laws that governs our lives stands in the way.