Every year the guys in the family go for a long weekend of camping. Usually it is at a camp site close to a beach area. This year it was at a beach with a beach front condo that they stayed at. The families are told that they are going for some team building/relationship building time-out for guys where they play sports, go fishing etc.
I came to find out via my husband that they are involved in other activities as well - namely - checking out girls at the beach, taking the pics of their chest and butts and sharing with the rest of the guys, going to clubs and bars to check out girls while the girls are half drunk and half naked and have lost their senses, watching playboy playmate videos on tv. All of this is very troubling to me as most of these guys are married and with kids. Their wives don’t know (from my assumption) what their husbands and fiances are doing at camp. Their motto is the Las Vegas motto “what happens at camp stays at camp”. Also most of them portray themselves are very religious. They pray 5 times a day, fast, sit in Aitekaaf during Ramadan, give speeches at mosques, collect donations to build masjids, etc. At camp they behave like 16 year old teenagers oggling at women while continuing their 5 daily prayers.
I feel like it is my moral responsibility as a muslim and as a woman to tell their wives that their husbands are pretty close to committing fornication when at these camps. I am not sure what degree of sin their actions come under but they sound disgustingly sinful to me.
My dilemma is:
If I tell their wives, then everyone finds out that my husband couldn’t follow the camp Las vegas motto and he’s given a bad name.
My husband will get upset since he has told me all this in confidence.
I have an aunt who is quite cool and gives wonderful advice and is someone I can trust. I am thinking of consulting her but her husband is also part of this camp and involved in these activities. But I think I can take her in confidence and ask for her advice as to what to do in this case - tell or not to tell the families. My husband is against this as again it will make him look bad and I’m pretty sure all the guys will be upset with us forever since we ruined their “fun”.
I feel like I’m opening up a Pandora’s box if I tell someone but if I keep quite, it feels like I’m doing something morally wrong.
I asked my husband to talk to my uncle who is the eldest at the camp and sort of the main supervisor of the group even though he’s just as guilty as the rest. I tried to convince hubby by telling him how hypocritical all these guys were being and what kind of Muslim society are they building?? But he doesn’t want to get involved as he’s from outside the family and doesn’t want to ruin his new relationship with my family. He’s not really super friends with my cousins just yet as they are still new to him.
So HELP me guys:
Should I keep quiet?
Should I take my aunt into confidence and ask for her advice even though that might lead to my husband being upset and hurt? I told him that I wanted to discuss it w/ my aunt and he’s against it as it might lead to my uncle finding out and then all hell breaking lose from there.
I am leaning toward no. 2 but I don’t want to hurt my husband either.
I am stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Please don’t turn this into a male bashing / male vs female thread. Constructive responses only as I really want to resolve this issue as soon as I can.
Thanks!!
Wow.. I’m already dreading what some of hte comments (sticking up for these guys) will be.
What they’ve done is very disgusting and sick behavior. They think by praying 5 times a day, giving charity, etc they are being “good Muslims” but judging by what they ahve been doing there, they are sadly very misguided. It doesn’t matter if they are “just looking” and not sleeping with those girls, and those girls are flaunting themselves anwyay, what they are doing is absolutely wrong!
That being said–it’s very easy for us to sit here and tell you you should speak out, risk the unpopularity and anger. Do you truly want to be on good terms with such hypocrites? Imagine how the wives would feel knowing their husbands were acting like horny pigs on vacation. Even worse, there would be many people who say “Boys will be boys/those girls are inviting that behavior/if the wife was pretty he wudn’t stare at other women” and alot of uneducated and misguided comments like that.
Noone likes a snitch or a whistleblower. Just look up several white collar crimes, or look at rape stories from Pakistan and elsewhere. People who bring to light illegal and immoral activites are very often attacked and there is lots of anger directed at them. So yeah, it’s very difficult to do the right thing and i think many would understand if you kept quiet.
I went through something similar, and there are times (lately more frequently) that I wish I hadn’t said anything, that I had gone along with all of it instead of getting angry because the outrage and speaking out against it did absolutely nothing to help me or punish the people involved. There was literally nothing I could do. And I do regret letting anyone in my family know about it.
I came to find out via my husband that they are involved in other activities as well - namely - checking out girls at the beach, taking the pics of their chest and butts and sharing with the rest of the guys, going to clubs and bars to check out girls while the girls are half drunk and half naked and have lost their senses, watching playboy playmate videos on tv. All of this is very troubling to me as most of these guys are married and with kids. Their wives don’t know (from my assumption) what their husbands and fiances are doing at camp. Their motto is the Las Vegas motto “what happens at camp stays at camp”. Also most of them portray themselves are very religious. They pray 5 times a day, fast, sit in Aitekaaf during Ramadan, give speeches at mosques, collect donations to build masjids, etc. At camp they behave like 16 year old teenagers oggling at women while continuing their 5 daily prayers.
That’s SICK!!!
I don’t think you should get involved in all this directly, there could be an alternative way to let their family know about what’s going on and untill you find such way, just keep quiet and wait for a better time to come.
thanks guys!! so it seems like 3 out of 3 people want me to keep quiet - including my hubby that makes 4.
You're right Sara we'll be labeled as snitches and backbiters while these guys will sail thru it by cajoling their wives. It makes me sad that these are men in our community that people look up to.
So I think it is best to keep quiet. I have asked my husband not to go on this yearly camping trip next year unless these guys learn to clean up their act. I believe that's the best I can do for now.
I don't know if direct confrontation will solve the problem as they might deny everything and label us as liars :-)
I think if I keep my husband from going next year, that might raise a few eyebrows and as Mysterious Guy said might indirectly alert some of the wise ones that something fishy is going on.
^ I’m not suggesting you do anything, just helping you see both sides. Truly, doing the “right” thing is more difficult.
The thought just occurred to me. Maybe alone, they dont do this stuff but when htey get with other guys this piggish behavior comes out. Its somethin about group mentality, you end up doin things u wudnt normally do on ur own. Maybe someone else can explain better.
If you don’t mind me asking, how did ur husband come to tell you about this?I think it’s great that he trusted you enough to confide in you these things (though other guys here n there might call him a pu*** for trusting you enough ).
I have got very similar problem, one of our best family friend also prays 5 times (never have i seen him missing any namaz), he will talk about hadith and Quran for hours like an AALIM and believe me or not but he has also been president of muslim association (can't disclose name of the country :( ).
He was checking his emails on my computer one day and forgot to sign out, my bro forwarded all of them to me because he found some SHOCKING emails in his inbox.
He has subscribed to lots of pornographic websites, he has been sending proposals to young ladies (25-35) for rishtas (he is 52 year old GRANDFATHER and quite rich) , he had relationships with many different ladies in recent years and currently has relationship with a lady (lives in India) who will DEFINITELY commit suicide once she finds out he is married, he uses her for cyber sex, telephone sex and vists her in summer holidays............the list is so long that i can type a 10 page essay on that.
His wife is one of the nicest person i have met and his sons are my best friends, i once thought i should tell someone about it or at least that lady in India who will die if she finds out what this guy really is but i am scared it's gonna effect many lives so i m keeping quiet.
my husband and I alhamdulillah have a very trustful relationship. We share pretty much everything with each other. He knows that I won’t go around backbiting and telling things that he has shared w/ me. We have alhamdulillah built that trust over the past years. that’s one of the reasons for my dilemma today - I don’t want to break the trust he has placed in me.
You are very right!! it is tough doing the right thing
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His wife is one of the nicest person i have met and his sons are my best friends, i once thought i should tell someone about it or at least that lady in India who will die if she finds out what this guy really is but i am scared it's gonna effect many lives so i m keeping quiet.
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you and I are in the same boat MG - I guess we better keep our traps shut huh no matter how much it hurts. May Allah swt deal with these people in His own manner.
Rukhsar...While what they are doing is extremely unislamic, remember in islam a muslim is not allowed to reveal someone elses sin. The best thing , and your duty really, is to keep the sins hidden. What your husband needs to do however, as he is part of this group, is to try and get them to understand that what they are doing is very very wrong.
Such hypocritical, disgusting and sick behaviour should not be let go like this. This is what we call a patriarchal of society, double standards (for men) and the suppression of women - yes these 'men' are suppressing their wives by carrying on like this behind their backs. Furthermore, these guys should be put to shame and someone should let them know that their secret is out. Hopefully they will feel some guilt and think twice before doing these things.
Rukhsar, do it tactfully, ie do speak to some elders about it like you mentioned - the aunty or the uncle, but someone should definitely say something!!!
Think, what would the Prophet PBUH do in such a situation?
Kodiak where do you get that from??? Dude, if you see a Muslim openly committing a sin, first you have to verbally tell them its wrong, if that doesnt work, you should physically prevent them from committing that sin.
Fine you shouldnt backbite, thats what youre talking about. Dont confuse it with trying to prevent a Muslm from committing a sin. geez people get your Islamic facts right.
Whosoever covers (the sins of) a Muslim, Allah covers (his sins) on the Day of Judgment. (Reported by Bukhari)
Even if it’s true you should not tell anyone.
Allah’s Apostle (peace be upon him) said:
Do you know what is backbiting? They (the Companions) said: Allah and His Apostle (peace be upon him) know best. Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: Backbiting implies your talking about your brother in a manner which he does not like. It was said to him: What is your opinion about this that if I actually find (that weakness) in my brother which I made a mention of? He said: If (that weakness) is actually found (in him) what you assert, you in fact backbited him, and if that is not in him it is a slander. (Reported by Muslim)
In summary, Rukhsarbibi, your duty as a Muslim is to not tell anyone else at all about what these guys do. Frankly, your husband should not have told you either, regardless of how much trust you two have between you. In telling you, he violated these two hadiths.
this is hilarious. how old are these men? sounds like things teenagers would do.
catwoman, you said the magic words. did rukhsaarbibi see these acts being committed? no. for all we know her hubby could be making all this up cuz he is insecure or he wants to be in her good books. so before u jump the gun and call this another male hypocrisy... drink some lassi.
err HELLOOOOO telling that uncle, who himself goes to those camps is not backbiting!! geez people, garner some balls instead of trying to save your own skins.
someone needs to slap them silly. the Prophet pbuh always expressed his distaste for an act he did not like.
I don't think taking your aunt into confidence will bring out anything good. Infact, there is a big possibility that she will become defensive and label you as a liar or something worse.
Your aunt and other might already be aware of the reality. I have never known any wives who let their husband go to team-building exercise (??) to beaches without objecting to it or without wanting to go along. What kind of team building are they talking about here? Are they all working for the same company? There has to be more to above. It sounds all too fishy to be real.
they are all cousins / BILs WitchDr. Since they all live far apart and don't get to see eachother often, it started out as "get to know your relatives" and spend some quality time with them.
Catty I was angry like you and still am to a certain extent but I think I would end up opening a huge can of worms if I do it right now. I have another idea - after my rukhsati go visit my uncle and aunt and take them aside and talk about what is happening along with my husband. That way it won't be termed as backbiting and we can hopefully make these guys stop acting like teenage kids. I think anger would just lead to more problems.
Maddy - that's an interesting hadith. But if you see your muslim brothers and sisters in a wrongful act, aren't you supposed to set them straight? Reading that hadith puts me back at square one - do I tell and be termed a backbiter or I don't tell and let these activities continue every year. it's a very sticky situation which there is no clear answer for.
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