George Bush today described Pakistan as a central battleground in the so-called war on terror, alongside Iraq and Afghanistan.
In a barbed message for the new Pakistani president, Asif Ali Zardari, Bush said Pakistan had a “responsibility” to fight extremists “because every nation has an obligation to govern its own territory and make certain that it does not become a safe haven for terror.”
The remarks are not likely to go down well in Pakistan, which has been in uproar after a raid by US ground troops on Pakistani territory – the first foray of its kind since the US-led invasion of Afghanistan in 2001.
Zardari, who was today sworn-in as Pakistan’s new president, is an outspoken advocate of tough action against extremists in Pakistan, despite broad public dislike of US foreign policy in the region.
Bush’s comments came in a speech to the US National Defence University in Washington, where he announced the withdrawal of 8,000 combat troops from Iraq by next February.
But there will be little respite for an overstretched US military as Bush also announced a troop rise in Afghanistan, currently home to 31,000 US soldiers. He said he was sending roughly 4,500 more troops to face a resurgent Taliban.
More than half of Bush’s address was devoted to Afghanistan, which the US president described as “the front where this struggle first began”.
Bush highlighted decisions to vastly increase the size of the Afghan national army, which will grow from its current size of 60,000 troops to 120,000, instead of 80,000.
“Afghanistan’s success is critical to the security of America and our partners in the free world,” he said. “And for all the good work we have done in that country, it is clear we must do even more.”
Bush said a marine battalion scheduled to go to Iraq in November would instead be sent to Afghanistan. One army combat brigade will follow.
Re: Bush moves 8,000 Iraq combat veterans to Afghanistan; warns Pakistan over militan
Short term problem is that any action taken in tribal areas of Pakistan (whether by US forces or by Pak forces) will see a reaction (suicide bombing etc) in Lahore, Karachi and Rawalpindi. Reaction won't be in NY, SF or DC. So US can sit pretty on its high horse with virtually no down side, and expect its puppets to dance on its commands, while real people and innocent citizens keep dying in this war on the streets of Pakistani cities. Not an appetizing thought for anyone who has a modicum of sympathy for the predicament facing Pakistanis in this situation.
Long term, of course, Pakistan needs to take care of this problem and rid its territory of jihadis and other unsavory characters. They are violent. They are unreasonable and they are nothing but trouble.
With regards to the reaction you’re referring to, I would like to state that the suicide bombings and other problems in Pakistan might not neccessarily be a ‘reaction’ of the tribal people.
1. "In Iraq, the United States also established a Joint Special Operations Command, better known by its acronym JSOC.
Its commander, Lt-Gen Stanley McChrystal, was given all the power he needed for hunting Al Qaeda and other militant groups in Iraq.
The general called his strategy ‘collaborative warfare” and every available tool, from signal intercepts to lightning-quick and sometimes concurrent operations, to achieve his goals.
Mr Woodward said that when President George W. Bush was asked in an interview what brought this breakthrough in Iraq, he replied: “JSOC is awesome.”
My analysis: - JSOC: It could very well be an operation where the locals are trained / employed by CIA for the creating trouble locally through suicide bombings / bomb blasts at places like resturants, brutality against Pak army / rangers (as we experienced) to do all that they can in order for the common citizens of Pakistan to hate talibans / al qaeda and hence join the US forces /operations against them. This idea / operation is no doubt very clever to get rid of the militants BUT it is on the expense of the innocent Pakistani civilians’ lives and blood’s expense.
2. "Mr Woodward observed that in Iraq’s Anbar province, Al Qaeda made a strategic mistake of overplaying its hand. Its members had performed forced marriages with women from local tribes, taken over hospitals, used mosques for beheading operations, mortared playgrounds and executed citizens, leaving headless bodies with signs that read, “Don’t remove this body or the same thing will happen to you.”
My analysis:
The above sounds like some similar practices carried out by these militants against Pak army, rangers, etc.
3. “The sheer brutality eroded much of the local support for Al Qaeda in Iraq,” observed Mr Woodward."
My analysis:
Just what JSOC is all about and just what’s been happening in Pakistan.
4. “The Taliban and Al Qaeda extremists also have employed similar tactics in Fata against Pakistani troops as well as the local population.”
My analysis:
Could it be a part of JSOC operations instead to gather the support of general public of Pakistan in order to trace down talibans / al qaeda? Again, this operation is no doubt a very clever planning BUT on the expense of lives of innocent Pakistani civilians.
5. "US officials believe that the suicide bombings conducted by these extremists in Pakistani cities will ultimately have the same impact on the local population as it did in Iraq, particularly in the Anbar province where thousands of Sunni tribesmen turned against Al Qaeda and signed up with US forces."
My analysis:
So basically, to trace down al qaeda / talibans, the blood and lives of the very local Pakistanis are used. As per the ***JSOC, ***first they kill the innocent Pakistani civilians pretending to be talibans. Which gathers them support of general Paki public to work / act against talibans. So, basically, they are fighting against the militants using the local people. So the local / Pakistani blood is wasted in every scenario. In the end, Pakistanis killing Pakistanis.
Not that this practice only started with JSOC operation as muslims will kill muslims, anyway. If there was no JSOC. the reasons will be other as we have no unity in anything, whatsoever. But with JSOC in practice, this is being done on a much greater scale.
6. “Since the United States does not have plans to have a military presence in Fata, it will not sign up Pakistani citizens. But it does want to channelise their anger against suicide bombing to isolate the extremists.”
My analysis:
Provided the circumstances of FATA, the above sound like a joke. Actually, that’s exactly what has been happening in Pakistan… Just like Iraq.
Couldnt there be any other strategy to rid these militants rather than through wasting blood of innocent Pakistani civilians and Pakistani soldiers?
Re: Bush moves 8,000 Iraq combat veterans to Afghanistan; warns Pakistan over militan
Ambassador dude, can you be a little clear as to what is your point? Reading what you copy-pasted it seemed that some of the suicide bombings etc in Pakistan could actually be done by CIA sponsored people to create anger against Jihadis, but then you also say this sounds like a joke. Not sure what is your point here.
But you misunderstand point no. 6. What I referred to as a joke was the following:
6. "Since the United States does not have plans to have a military presence in Fata, it will not sign up Pakistani citizens.
Basically, the report says that CIA have no plans to have a military presence in FATA and will NOT sign up Pakistani citizens. That's what is a joke to me because on the contrary, what we see is exactly the opposite of that. Meaning, US forces ARE present in FATA carrying out attacks and Pakistani citizens (mostly local pakhtuns and also others) ARE signed up to carry out suicide / other bombings AND other trouble in other areas of Pakistan. And brutality against Pak police / forces.
Hope that makes sense now.
Ambassador dude, can you be a little clear as to what is your point? Reading what you copy-pasted it seemed that some of the suicide bombings etc in Pakistan could actually be done by CIA sponsored people to create anger against Jihadis, but then you also say this sounds like a joke. Not sure what is your point here.
Re: Bush moves 8,000 Iraq combat veterans to Afghanistan; warns Pakistan over militan
It is impossible to generalize the mental state of pashtuns, but if CIA is able to brain-wash some of them to blow themselves up in a double-crossing game to lay the blame on jihadis, then this is way too dense.
But thats proly just me me.
I can't even figure out the rationale and the mind-process of those who lay down their own lives supposedly for religious reasons in suicide bombings against innocent civilians either. I guess they are told that these innocent civilians death is just an unfortunate collateral damage in a larger war against infidels (USA). Not sure when these folks will realize that killing civilians in Peshawar is just killing civilians in Peshawar and there is no damage or real impact to the USA.
hmm Ambassador following your line of speculation, if indeed they are creating these exhibitionists then what are they fighting against? i mean ultimate goal here is what?given pakistan position what do they want to achieve
Re: Bush moves 8,000 Iraq combat veterans to Afghanistan; warns Pakistan over militan
Well, I guess the ultimate aim is to remove all these sanctuaries for the jihadis who are hiding in FATA.
By creating anger against jihadis amongst common citizens, they want to create local backlash against al-Qaida and Taliban and the hope would be that local leaders will force aQ and Talibans to get out; or will hand them over to the authorities or just eliminate them themselves. Right now, local leaders apparently are protecting these aQ and Taliban forces.
Re: Bush moves 8,000 Iraq combat veterans to Afghanistan; warns Pakistan over militan
For anyone with some objectivity it has always been clear that "frontline state in war on terror" was actually diplocode for "the place where the actual terrorism starts". As long a Musharraf was playing ball, Bush was giving some face saver and atleast in public, referred to Pakistan as an ally.
Now there were (are?) Signs that the new govt may attempt to try standing up, even if it meant giving quarter to the jihadi nuts (inside and outside govt).
Bush and others simply showing what will happen if Pakistan doesnt behave!
Anyone thinking FATA is the only problem is fooling themselves. Bush has TAKEN carte blanche and has not and is not waiting for any permission from Islamabad.
It is upto the new gvt (which is made up of only 2 ppl Zardari and Kayani) to decide whether they want the face saver or not.
To resume getting the face saver they will have to resume taking joint responsibility for any bombings Nato conducts in Pakistan, post fact ofcourse.
That Nato will ever trust anyone in Pakistani establishment is hallucination within wishful thinking, after case after case of ISI and others compromising affiliation.
I agree, the stimuli behind agreeing to carry out such acts against the fellow Pakistanis by pashtuns cannot be generalized. Different reasons for different volunteers. In some cases it could be the lower mental state, in other cases could be the compensation good enough for their poor family (as was told by a pakhtun working abroad to a family memeber that someone he knew agreed to do this in Pakistan just for the sake of generous compensation he was promised for his family). If later is the reason in majority of the cases then it is also some food for thought for the Pakistani government that there is so much poverty in the country that people agree to blow themselves up so that their families can have enough money to feed themselves.
I am sure there are other reasons also. In my personal opinion, the main reason is the hate factor. The negative elements did and are doing their best to spread the hate btwn the government and the general public, btwn the govt. and the tribal men, btwn the general public and the tribal men, btwn the Pak army / ranger and the tribal men, btwn the Pak army and the general public, btwn the judiciary and the army, btwn the opposition and the ruling parties, disunity btwn the two winning parties, btwn ISI and the general public. The list goes on.
One would question, outsiders cannot do all that much. I agrue that that's exactly what they have been doing in the past few years. Definitely, it is due to our people's inability to understand the truth of the matter that they get exploited.
One can only ignore to an extent but actually this hate spreading practice has been carried on a huge scale across the country. Obviously, there are many vulnerable souls and their reasons of being brainwashed / exploited vary too. Bringing Pakistan into the state that it is in. This is the first of its' kind scenario in the history of Pakistan. By now, I highly doubt that they are doing this to catch the actual militants. Seeing how, the conditions have WORSEN since after the arrival of their troops in Pakistan. What we actually need to do is UNITE and kick the @sses of those causing this bloodshed on Pakistan's soil out of our land. If Pakistani innocents HAVE to die, why not atleast trying to kill the enemy who has gone much FAR from disrespecting the soverginty of Pakistan?
Yes Pakistani people are ready to die BUT they will struggle to KILL their enemy before they die.
Enough is enough!!!
It is impossible to generalize the mental state of pashtuns, but if CIA is able to brain-wash some of them to blow themselves up in a double-crossing game to lay the blame on jihadis, then this is way too dense.
But thats proly just me me.
I can't even figure out the rationale and the mind-process of those who lay down their own lives supposedly for religious reasons in suicide bombings against innocent civilians either. I guess they are told that these innocent civilians death is just an unfortunate collateral damage in a larger war against infidels (USA). Not sure when these folks will realize that killing civilians in Peshawar is just killing civilians in Peshawar and there is no damage or real impact to the USA.
hmm Ambassador following your line of speculation, if indeed they are creating these exhibitionists then what are they fighting against? i mean ultimate goal here is what?given pakistan position what do they want to achieve
Croquet, exactly what Faisal said.
Well, I guess the ultimate aim is to remove all these sanctuaries for the jihadis who are hiding in FATA.
By creating anger against jihadis amongst common citizens, they want to create local backlash against al-Qaida and Taliban and the hope would be that local leaders will force aQ and Talibans to get out; or will hand them over to the authorities or just eliminate them themselves. Right now, local leaders apparently are protecting these aQ and Taliban forces.
And unstability of the ONLY Islamic state equiped with atomic power.
What they do not understand is that Pakistan in NOT Saudia with shariah driven madness. Or maybe they just cannot disgest the thought of seeing an Islamic state with atomic power.
They have played almost every stunt in their pocket to destabalize Pakistan. Every single possible stunt. I would be convinced they are really after AQ / talibans if they were not releasing the terrorists from jails to send to Pakistan to cause brutality against Pakistani army, citizens, tribal men. But, by now, the 'war on terror' has caused much more trauma. so this war is definitely NOT going in the right direction. They are not catching the actual trouble makers. They are actually RELEASING trouble makers to kill general Pakistanis and those loyal to this land.
And unstability of the ONLY Islamic state equiped with atomic power.
What they do not understand is that Pakistan in NOT Saudia with shariah driven madness. Or maybe they just cannot disgest the thought of seeing an Islamic state with atomic power.
They have played almost every stunt in their pocket to destabalize Pakistan. Every single possible stunt. I would be convinced they are really after AQ / talibans if they were not releasing the terrorists from jails to send to Pakistan to cause brutality against Pakistani army, citizens, tribal men. But, by now, the 'war on terror' has caused much more trauma. so this war is definitely NOT going in the right direction. They are not catching the actual trouble makers. They are actually RELEASING trouble makers to kill general Pakistanis and those loyal to this land.
A1, agree with you 100 percent, Its like Iraq, no killings until amerika arrives and then suddenly hell breaks lose bombs going every where.
Re: Bush moves 4,500 troops to Afghanistan; warns Pakistan over militants
the reality is the Americans are now feeding a more general uprising in Afghanistan. In Pakistan as I said a long time back the effects of a “small” operation in a few villages in FATA would be huge because it would start migrating from the west to the east. the Americans hot pursuit will eventually go deeper and deeper into pakistan territory (not to say Pakistan’s key services aren’t already heavily compromised). While on the eastern front the Army;s ability to challenge India is declining by the day.
And it is not as if the strength of this threat is present only in areas where provincial and federal governments have been historically averse to excercising their full jurisdiction. It is hard to find a single district in all of the NWFP where Taliban activities are not growing. One case in point was the clarion call of the Peshawar police chief about the city falling to the Taliban, which triggered the limited operation against Khyber Agency’s warlord, Mangal Bagh. The situation looks different across the Attock Bridge, connecting the NWFP with the Punjab, but in reality it isn’t.
While Islamabad has seen the reach and the audacity of these groups in the shape of suicide attacks on the police and diplomatic missions, other parts of the Punjab, particularly in the south which is a recruitment ground for most Punjabi Taliban, and west Punjab, where sectarian hatred is institutionalised, the defiant religious groups are showing signs of revival. Local residents of Jhang, the centrepiece of sectarian strife, report a marked increase in the activities of sectarian outfits. Graffiti eulogising the cause of the Taliban is emblazoned across the main roads of Karachi, and, tellingly, the counter-messaging of “crush Taliban” are just as numerous.
And another article in the Guardian is even more aggressive towards Pakistan
Pakistan is in very bad situation now. we are still following the American policies and killing out our own people. They (Talibaan) are now started hating us. On the other side Mosad and CIA are engaging different suicide attacks plus religious wars like shai sunni etc in northern areas. All they want these insurgencies should be extended to all over pakistan so that they (Nato and India on the other side) can enter to implement "PEACE" here.
Above of all we r still sleeping and blaming our own people by declaring them terrorists. Believe me if the Talibaan plus all local affectees will stand up against us then BINGOOOO. These people dont bother even super powers (See results of Russian and American attack) to phir hum kis khaet ki mooli hain.
So we need a very intelligent people in order to revamp our foreign policies but alas we have ZARDARI NOW!!!!!!!! And by the way Pakistan = ISLAM so if we dont bring ISLAM here, then i think we are very close to an END. As ALLAH already gave us 61 Years!!
ALLAH KHAIR KARAY
Our problem is that 90% of us really dont know who r operating in Fata / Sawat etc. We know a name Talibaan and thats it!!. Even we dont know the difference b/w talibaan and alqieda.
If u want to know the truth then download pakistan aur talibanization (Audio speaches)
from tanzeem (dot) org
Re: Bush moves 4,500 troops to Afghanistan; warns Pakistan over militants
Zakk, thanks for the articles. The conflict is interesting and has internal as well as external dimensions. The warning by Bush and the criticism by General Kiyani should be understood in the backdrop of US attempt to transform Pakistan by controlling its security structures through Mushi, Benazir, Zardaris, etc. and the resistance (mainly from Punjab) to that within Pakistan. Proxy war is going on with full swing…global hegemony versus regiobal/domestic hegemony.
Following articles are very relevant.
Why Benazir Bhutto posed a threat
Manipal, India — On Nov. 7 this columnist wrote that Pakistani politician Benazir Bhutto’s election plans were likely to fail “if she survives.” The skepticism over her longevity was because of the threat she represented to both the Punjabi component in the Pakistan army and to the continuation of the military’s monopoly over state power.
Manipal, India — After Pervez Musharraf himself, the individual who will be most nervous at the resignation of Pakistan’s president is the Pakistan People’s Party co-chairman, Asif Ali Zardari. For it was Musharraf – admittedly with repeated prodding from Condoleezza Rice – who offered Benazir Bhutto’s widower amnesty from the numerous corruption cases against him in exchange for his party’s support to his presidency…