Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
Its really sad when someone pointing it toward army or raw. We have enemies among us inside us and parties like PMNL Ji and PTI supprting them for mutual interests.
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
it is not propaganda....it is a reality...have some decency and accept the facts..dont worship personalities... .
You missed the part where I quoted Imran as being the only one who had codemned LEJ by name. Sectarianism and war on terror are 2 different issues. Sectarianism has been around in Pakistan for ever, in one form or another. Problem is lack of political will to take action.
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
You missed the part where I quoted Imran as being the only one who had codemned LEJ by name.
Such condemnations mean nothing. Actions speak louder than mere words.
No matter what Imran says, the policies he so fervently propose (like negotiations) will only lead to further strengthening of extremism in the country, and massacres of Muslims across the country.
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
We have enemies among us inside us and parties like PMNL Ji and PTI supprting them for mutual interests.
Many Pakistanis tend to support them for various reasons (good Taliban, use against India, use against USA, etc.).
This is why they never finish the job whenever some action is started against them.
And then they claim that we need to negotiate with them since we cannot defeat them. Well, they are not defeated because no effort has been made to eradicate this menace by Taliban apologists.
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
Such condemnations mean nothing. Actions speak louder than mere words. No matter what Imran says, the policies he so fervently propose (like negotiations) will only lead to further strengthening of extremism in the country, and massacres of Muslims across the country.
How do you know it will not work? Can't hurt to try.. or you want only shia dominance?
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
Such condemnations mean nothing. Actions speak louder than mere words. No matter what Imran says, the policies he so fervently propose (like negotiations) will only lead to further strengthening of extremism in the country, and massacres of Muslims across the country.
Ok so first, Imran was being blamed for not calling out terrorists. And when he does, it doesnt mean anything. Imran or PTI dont have any authority to do anything on a national level. PTI only has a provincial govt, and we need to give them time to see how their strategy of negotiations will pan out. National strategy will be decided by PML-N, and we need to give that time to pan out as well.
As far as use of force is concerned, this option has been used a lot more than negotiations.....and you have yet to show me one instance of military operations, in Pakistan, or anywhere in the world, where military forces were able to subdue terrorism by use of firepower.
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
agree with the approach but the problem with Zoo-istan is that tomorrow these terrorists will have another show somewhere else for sure.... then PM shd go there as well?...problem is that we have so many animals wandering around in pakistan and there is no end to it....if PM can give clear instructions, reseoruces and stay on top of it, that is more important
Yes they should. In civilized democratic world leaders bare the full responsibility. I have told many times in past when they were targeting innocent people and PPP, MQM and ANP, these 'maut ke saudagar' would come after those who had soft corner for these monsters and were contended to suppress these parties. And this has happened now. NS has most responsibility of being PM of country. The 'Sher' should behave like 'Sher' not the 'geedarh'. These monsters should be crushed where they are operating under the direct supervision of PM. Otherwise NS should resign and let real 'Sher' come to the power. The status quo or inaction by the government will result in separation of Baluchistan from the rest of country.
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
and Imran ? you forgot to mention his name?
lets be clear....lets stop worshiping personalities...have a clear stand and then condemn it regardless of imran or nawaz.
Imran isnt part of the central govt, so for now, his stance is hardly relevant beyond KP. None the less, I reserve judgement on Imran for the moment as his stance is still rather ambiguous. I think a lot of what he says on the matter is just politics, trying to survive politically and keep his and his supporters' neck from the Taliban's axe.. Can only judge him when he is place to do something about it, give it a year or so...
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
Although there are some similarities (and at times the militants support each other) but I see LEJ and TTP as different entities. The motives of both are different, TTP wants to impose what they consider "shariah" in the country and LEJ want to create a hardline sunni state where there's no role of shias and others.
TTP is based in the border areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan, where as LEJ is a Punjab based outfit like LET and JEM. LEJ/SSP are in the country for the past 35 years (before the creation of TTP) and they'd stay even after their defeat. TTP and LEJ can be tackled differently, after the previous attack Imran specifically asked for operations against LEJ but nothing happened. It seems as if even the state is scared of them. All the high profile attacks on the military have taken place through these militants which also called Punjabi taleban, and it seems as if their sympathizers are present in the military as well.
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
Although there are some similarities (and at times the militants support each other) but I see LEJ and TTP as different entities. The motives of both are different, TTP wants to impose what they consider "shariah" in the country and LEJ want to create a hardline sunni state where there's no role of shias and others.
TTP is based in the border areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan, where as LEJ is a Punjab based outfit like LET and JEM. LEJ/SSP are in the country for the past 35 years (before the creation of TTP) and they'd stay even after their defeat. TTP and LEJ can be tackled differently, after the previous attack Imran specifically asked for operations against LEJ but nothing happened. It seems as if even the state is scared of them. All the high profile attacks on the military have taken place through these militants which also called Punjabi taleban, and it seems as if their sympathizers are present in the military as well.
TTP dont like Shia either... They just have bigger fish to fry at the moment.
Other then that, i think TTP is just a Mafia with religious overtones, but very little religiosity beyond lip service. There main concern is with gaining power and retaining it. LEJ seems far more ideologically driven. Less interested in gaining power, and more interested in killing Shia.
Both are evil and dont deserve any mercy however.
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
Female suicide bomber responsible for Quetta attack - DAWN.COM
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
Although there are some similarities (and at times the militants support each other) but I see LEJ and TTP as different entities. The motives of both are different, TTP wants to impose what they consider "shariah" in the country and LEJ want to create a hardline sunni state where there's no role of shias and others.
TTP is based in the border areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan, where as LEJ is a Punjab based outfit like LET and JEM. LEJ/SSP are in the country for the past 35 years (before the creation of TTP) and they'd stay even after their defeat. TTP and LEJ can be tackled differently, after the previous attack Imran specifically asked for operations against LEJ but nothing happened. It seems as if even the state is scared of them. All the high profile attacks on the military have taken place through these militants which also called Punjabi taleban, and it seems as if their sympathizers are present in the military as well.
Taliban Afghanistan, TTP, LJ, Jamat ud Dawa, etc. are different entities. Their immediate goals are different based on their immediate surroundings. But these are part of the same ideology.
They all join together to form a bigger picture. The picture they all believe in is a hardline Wahhabi state (not 'hardline Sunni state') where no one, shia or sunni, would dare to oppose them (TALIBAN), where non-Wahhabis would have the status of dhimmi (LJ and SSP, where everyone follows their own brand of shariah (TALIBAN), where training is provided to wage fasad against other infidel countries (TALIBAN and JuD), etc.
Pakistan's goal must be to eliminate extremism of all kinds. Just cherry-picking good and bad extremists is never going to solve the problem. It is because of this myopic vision that extremism has not been eliminated in the country. Musharraf thought TTP is ok but foreigners among TTP are a problem. Nawaz thinks JuD and LJ/SSP are ok. Imran thinks Taliban are ok but LJ is bad.
If we agree that all of them are different form of the same pathetic ideology then we will realize how fruitless negotiations are with them. They are all equally inspired to achieve their immediate goals and they are willing to give their lives to achieve these goals. There is just no stopping them by talking. They are not out there to be reasoned with. They are out there to impose their perceived vision of takfiriat over all Muslims.
America is just an excuse they use to win popular support in Pakistan. In reality they will continue to achieve their goals no matter what the case is. Their enemy is not just America but democracy itself. Their enemy is not just America but ALL non-Wahhabis. They will not stop unless they either subjugate them or kill them or throw them out.
Just like it is futile to negotiate with LeJ/SSP to stop killing shias and Sunnis. Similarly it is futile to negotiate with Tailban to stop trying imposition of THEIR shariah over all Muslims.
So how to stop them? Well,
. FIGHT WITH THEM.
. Since a satanic ideology can not be eliminated by fighting alone, we need to see where they are being inculcated in this ideology. Identify the madressahs which provide them ideological background, EVEN IF THOSE MADRESSAHS DON'T ACTUALLY TRAIN THEM IN TERRORISM.
. Look at their sources of income, and make it a crime for anyone to support them.
. Create special summary courts for trial of extremists of all kinds. Don't just rely on regular corrupt judicial system.
. And remember that trying to start 'negotiations' without first putting them on back-foot is equivalent to plain surrender of Pakistani society in front of them.
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
Taliban Afghanistan, TTP, LJ, Jamat ud Dawa, etc. are different entities. Their immediate goals are different based on their immediate surroundings. But these are part of the same ideology. They all join together to form a bigger picture. The picture they all believe in is a hardline Wahhabi state (not 'hardline Sunni state') where no one, shia or sunni, would dare to oppose them (TALIBAN), where non-Wahhabis would have the status of dhimmi (LJ and SSP, where everyone follows their own brand of shariah (TALIBAN), where training is provided to wage fasad against other infidel countries (TALIBAN and JuD), etc.
Pakistan's goal must be to eliminate extremism of all kinds. Just cherry-picking good and bad extremists is never going to solve the problem. It is because of this myopic vision that extremism has not been eliminated in the country. Musharraf thought TTP is ok but foreigners among TTP are a problem. Nawaz thinks JuD and LJ/SSP are ok. Imran thinks Taliban are ok but LJ is bad.
One thing I didnt mention in the previous post was that Pakistani army has itself prepared the outfits like LEJ, LET, HuM and JEM and hence they are well trained and have sympathizers within. The army can carry out operations else where, but considering the history I dont think they'd conduct an operation against LEJ.
Personally I consider LEJ to be more dangerous as compared to TTP, as the latter is confined to a particular area where as LEJ has the tendency to push the whole country to a civil war.
If the high profile attacks like GHQ, Kamra, ISI Hq's Lahore, FIA Building, Naval War College and PNS Naval Base etc are not enough to wake the army, rest assured nothing will. I do not support kill and dump policy for terrorists, but what can one say about kill and dump in case of Baloch militants and a different treatment for terrorists like Malik Ishaq.
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
It is true that they have sympathizers everywhere in the country, especially in the army. It is really unfortunate. And it is one of the main reasons why we are unable to wipe extremism out of the country after so many years.
As far as LeJ, I look at them and TTP as two sides of the same coin. Taliban are not as much known about sectarian killings because there are hardly any shias in KP. And wherever they are, TTP et al have done exactly what LeJ would have done. For example, they put a virtual siege on whole population of Parachinar’s shias and executed bus passengers by picking them up with their names. A community under siege in tribal Pakistan | Features | Al Jazeera
The Abbas Town massacre in Karachi was also the act of TTP instead of LeJ.
http://dawn.com/2013/03/14/abbas-town-bombing-culprits-arrested-in-karachi-says-police/
So no difference in TTP and LeJ. Just that TTP does not have as much OPPORTUNITY as LeJ has in other areas. Their obvious immediate goals look different but their ultimate goal and the source of their ideology is exactly the same.
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
One thing I didnt mention in the previous post was that Pakistani army has itself prepared the outfits like LEJ, LET, HuM and JEM .
Interesting!
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
Interesting!
'Moral support' to Kashmir jehad. I have seen jehadis openly while I was studying in uni.
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
what about the shia militias roaming the streets of pakistan?
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
what about the shia militias roaming the streets of pakistan?
If there were Shia militants on the streets of Pakistan, you would have Sunni mosques being attacked in the same manner. As far as I can tell, they are restricted to targeted attacks against anti Shia clerics.
Re: Bus of women students targeted in Quetta
One thing I didnt mention in the previous post was that Pakistani army has itself prepared the outfits like LEJ, LET, HuM and JEM and hence they are well trained and have sympathizers within. The army can carry out operations else where, but considering the history I dont think they'd conduct an operation against LEJ.
Personally I consider LEJ to be more dangerous as compared to TTP, as the latter is confined to a particular area where as LEJ has the tendency to push the whole country to a civil war.
If the high profile attacks like GHQ, Kamra, ISI Hq's Lahore, FIA Building, Naval War College and PNS Naval Base etc are not enough to wake the army, rest assured nothing will. I do not support kill and dump policy for terrorists, but what can one say about kill and dump in case of Baloch militants and a different treatment for terrorists like Malik Ishaq.
The sad thing is that nothing will be done. The terrorists really have the run of the country. Govt is going to pay lip service and then sweep it all back under the rug till the next attack. Typical.
If it was bad under PPP, imagine how much worse it will be under Ganja, who actually has an electoral alliance with these animals.