Burqa Bannings

Re: Burqa Bannings

No, its not about "freedom of speech", but "no blocking of religion acts/requirements", not everything needs to be looked from western perspective.

Why do we need to compare ourselves with others all the time? Saudi Arabia is a different animal, worthy of discussion separately. If you want to discuss "forced religion requirements" then I agree that there should be no forced requirements.

Re: Burqa Bannings


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Re: Burqa Bannings

It's a security issue. During the Lal Masjid issue, the two men in charge of keeping people hostage in a masjid for not following their brand of Islam, one of them tried to escape in a Burqa.

And if you wonder how things are being funnelled in Pakistan and it's difficult to trace people and follow people, the burqa becomes a terrorists best friend. Men can hide in them, and women as well, and funnel illegal stuff back and forth without a problem and without even getting identified - makes secret service goals even harder when you can't see people.

In a city where there is free flow of ammo, where ammo is hidden inside masjids, where people parade around in burqas to conduct acts of terrorism, I think it's a fair question to pose - let's get rid of the burqas, everyone must show their face, be open to pat downs by security guards, and the insides of masjids need to be open for people to investigate and see.

Simple. You can't let criminal activity run rampant in the name of Islam, then you become an accomplice in this mess yourself.

Car analogy is just wrong, but if you were to suggest that the possession of weapons needs to be regulated/controlled, and the government needs to know who is buying a gun and why, then I agree, there should be control over that. Sikandar did not use his car to conceal anything, it was hid mode of transport, but he did use a gun that would be a direct cause of damage, so anything that can directly cause damage or hide things, should be controlled.

Would you not feel safer living in a neighborhood where you could see everyone's face, and you knew who was who and you could identify an imposter or someone that doesn't belong.

Again, bring religion into this, and may I remind you that even in Saudi, you can't hide your face for security purposes. You can wear a chaddar, but they have strict guards who if they think you're suspicious will have no qualms in patting you down, investigating you, and in my case when I tried to ask some lady a question and she was trying to direct me some other way, actually SHOVED me to the ground. They may be ridiculous, but they know they need a tight security control there, based on events in the past where people have taken the Kabbah at hostage and tried to dig tunnels to the Prophet's grave to dig out his body. Hence, HEAVY SECURITY. You can't even pull out a camera without getting 10 questions. So they require you show your face.

I don't see why this would be taking away anyone's rights esp if the end result is to cut down on the terrorist activity where innocents are losing lives daily.

Re: Burqa Bannings

And not to make a generalization, but another example of where a burqa came in handy to a criminal. I went to get clothes made in Pakistan recently, and one of the boutiques had been robbed that very morning by two burqa wali's. They showed me the tapes even. They were found later on tape to stuff clothes within their burqa's and run off with dresses that cost hundreds of dollars, from a fancy boutique. The sales girl was crap scared she was going to lose her job over this, naturally. Turned out that same duo of women also robbed a neighboring boutique the same way. They came in with small kids, and hand the kids running around, which the sales girl ran after them to control them while the ladies pretended to try on clothes, and the ladies stuffed dresses under burqas and left.

Nice right? They didn't show their faces, so the sales girl had no clue how to even find them.

Re: Burqa Bannings

Islam doesn't say to wear it, but it isnt a sin to wear. Far from a sin.
Islam does forbid exposing skin and tight and/or revealing cloths, then why do people still wear that?

And comparing burqa with offending religion (regardless of which religion)?! Nice.

Re: Burqa Bannings

PCG, still these burqa-incidents are mere incidents. You are acting as if the burqa-crime is so rampant all over the country/world and we are suffering so much under it. Which is not true.
Yes there are people who will use a burqa for the wrong purposes. But people with bad intentions will find many ways to cover their shady business. In fact, they can use or misuse anything. People go till lengths to reach their sinister goals. People even hide things in their children's diapers.

How far do you want to go to ban things for security issues? The answer is you can't keep everything in cantrol, and you cannot ban everything.

Burqa clad women are the least I worry about. The last time I checked men with white skin are the ones who are killing and destroying everything and everyone left and right, so I would rather fear them.

Re: Burqa Bannings

sure....lets get white guys! i like that.... taliban pakistan, taliban, laskhir jhangvi, al qaeda forget them...we need to get these damn Yankees!

and doesnt matter if burqa-incidents are fewer.... what kind of mentality is this...in civilized cultures even if an incidence takes place only once, they try to look introspectively to understand the root cause and fix the error. burqa has a very unique security feature..and that is to hide your face. one cannot even recognize the criminal. So we cannot compare burqa to all other dress analogies.

Re: Burqa Bannings

First of all, I never said that one should ignore these incidents. Don't fill in your own interpretation.
What I said and meant is that these incidents are not the main and/or the root cause of the bad situation in Pakistan, or anywehere else in the world.
What is the percentage of these burqa-crimes? I guess minimum.

Second of all, don't teach me about civilized cultures. The curtain of civilization fell down long ago.

Teesra, why are you getting so worked up because I mentioned men with gori chamrhi? Isn't it true that more people have been and are being killed by their hands than by all of those groups you mentioned plus the burqa criminals together? And that too all in the open?

So what is there so weird about what I said?

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hmm......if for security purposes....then what about baggy clothes?? and what about a 'face showing' burqa?? Because even if you show face, stuff can be hidden in the baggy clothes or the burqa/abaya.....

Re: Burqa Bannings

Le where do you live ?

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worked up? not really...i just said that lets go get those damn Yankees and forget AQ and Talibans! i didnt use any provocative language

now please tell me why are you so worked up when i mentioned civilized cultures...fine, call them whatever you want to. i dont care. I am just referring to those cultures where human life is considered important and where govts make sure to protect their citizens life...japan, korea also fall in the same category ( i hope you feel better now....i was not limiting my comparison to "gori chamrie"...

i was trying to make a point that how these societies look introspectively as soon as an incidence takes place and they dont wait until a certain criminal pattered becomes too pronounced...you want to take discussion to gorie chamrie, flawed civilization protocol and what not...and i am not in mood to start discussing those socio-ethnic-cultral-historical topics....

by the way i love this practice of lecturing on "demerits" of gorie chamrie and its flawed civilization practices while living and enjoying the very same society!

Re: Burqa Bannings

Ban Bandook Before Burqa? :hypo:

Re: Burqa Bannings

And also regarding covering the face, there is a difference of opinion whether that is for entire time in ihraam or only during tawaaf. There is evidence that it is only for Tawaaf.

Definitely not related to security.

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As far as I am concerned, there's no difference in banning burqa (by force) and enforcing burqa (by force like in Saudia) which many detest here. The intelligence agencies should do their jobs properly to foil terrorist attacks.

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So by that logic, hoodies should also be banned? Surely I don't need to explain the 'link' (lol) between hoodies and crime. I'm sure PCG has also soon enough CCTV videos on Youtube where the thugs and thieves were wearing hoodies when they robbed shops and assaulted people.

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Exactly. This banning nonsense has to stop! You cannot pretend to worry about extremism when you yourself hop from one extreme to another.

For now, people should just focus on combating the ideologies and individuals who are hellbent on making burqa a farz. In fact when it comes to Pakistan, in most cases, burqa is not adopted because of religious reasons, it's strictly done out of cultural pressure. I'd go as far as saying that many Pakhtoon women do burqa simply because the men in their family said so. It*'s a symbol of *their tribal *honour, respect and pride. *Now how do you get rid of this mentality, I really don't know. But I'd definitely stick with better education, infrastructure and effective laws as an only peaceful and long term solution.

Btw, any sympathies for women who wear burqa for personal safety and security reasons?

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There has been lots of insults going on against Islam for the last so many decades. Burqa was never mandatory for women in Islam. It was always modesty and decent dress code for women has been described. Burqa has been used by “maut ke saudagar” for killing innocent people and should be banned asap. Here in America a number of cases of robberies occurred where robbers wore burqa to show the public they were pious Muslim ladies, through they were all male African Americans.

Islam ka kaafi mazaq urh chuka, ab yeh bakwaas khatam honi chaayiay. If burqa can be used for terrorists activity or robbing banks, it should be banned. As regards to your comments on tight short jeans or tight upper, women wears bikini or tights who are you? Amirul-Mominin?? Why you make value judgements here? Safety of Public should be the foremost priority.

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I am not getting worked up because of the term civilized cultures. But the ones you refer to as civilized are far from it. Controlling and monitoring not only your own citizins but citizins from all over the world, and then lying and denying it, and then when exposed coming with lame excuses isnt exactly what I would call civilized. Just one example.

I know what point you are trying to make. The thing is there is no high rate of these burqa crimes. Yes burqas can *(and in some cases) are used to commit crimes. But everything *can be used as a disguise. Kya kya ban karwaoge? Wigs, fake mustaches, masks; these items are more used as a disguise than burqas. Ban that too.
The argument 'But the uniqueness of a burqa is that you cannot see who is hidden under it', isnt a strong argument. Anyone can hide illigal stuff under their cloths. Whether you can see their face is irrelevant, because if they are going to blow themselves up, it wont matter anymore.
People even hide things within their body. Chamrhi udhair lo sab ki.

I don't want to start a socio-ethnic topic either. All I stated is a fact. I did not say anything bad against the western world, did I? All I said was that chitti chamrhi walay men are responsible for the killings of a lot of innocent people everywhere.

I never said lets ignore AQ. Fact is that there is no concrete proof of their actions. You hear about it on the tv, that they claimed such blast and so. Neither me or you have seen them doing it with our own eyes. Whereas gora saab are doing everything openly. Their lies, actions, excuses are all in happening in front of us.

Where I live, what I do, what I eat is totally irrelevant to that.

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Burqa has long been in place, there are different opinions but for the ones who view it as "mandatory" it should be allowed.

I haven't seen one recently, when and where did you read that?

Cell phones are used by terrorists, cars are used by terrorists, planes are used by terrorists, bicycles are used by terrorists... lets ban everything and start living in mountains for safety. And you are the Prophet/Allah to decide whether Burqa is mandatory or not and whether it needs to be banned?

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You are wrong again and spreading lies...another one of your many sins...You are perfectly allowed to cover your face in Makkah. I just did an Umrah and my wife did cover herself...Why don't you worry about banning firearms in your own country before worrying about Pakistan? There are far more violent crimes and deaths in your Murica...than in Pakistan...but guess what? You wont do that because owning firearms is protected by the constitution.