Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

[muqawwee123]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@ajazali

Bhai jaan, its ok if you are or not satisfied with these practices. but if you dont get satisfied then just leave these practices and tell the people “right” way to find satisifaction. Why point fingers at these practices?

You are missing the point i.e. absolute condemnation of these practices against the condemnation of sins. Many people quote Bulleh Shah’s lines 'Masjid Dha Day, Mandir Dha Day Dha Day Jo Kujh Disda’ leaving ‘Par Kissay Da Dil Na Dhawee(n) Rub Dilaa(n) Wich Wasda’.

[ajazali]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

how about Batth Namazan, Chakkarr Rozay, Phook masalla, bhan sut tasbeeh?

[muqawwee123]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@ajazali

how about Batth Namazan, Chakkarr Rozay, Phook masalla, bhan sut tasbeeh?

can you post complete kafi with the meaning you got from it?

[ajazali]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@muqawwee123

can you post complete kafi with the meaning you got from it?

I got two sources, none of those tells that it is a kafi and is mentioned there as a single shair. You can do your own research.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@ajazali

I got two sources, none of those tells that it is a kafi. You can do your own research.

apart from what is to be called kafi or doha, posting complete lines of this particular poem by Bulleh Shah especially the last stanza will clear things I’ll post it when reaches home from Kulliyat e Bulleh Shah

[ajazali]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@muqawwee123

apart from what is to be called kafi or doha, posting complete lines of this particular poem by Bulleh Shah especially the last stanza will clear things I’ll post it when reaches home from Kulliyat e Bulleh Shah

sure, but do find and tell me why Bulleh shah talked against namaz and roza.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@ajazali

sure, but do find and tell me why Bulleh shah talked against namaz and roza.

The very next stanza after ‘phook musla bhan satt lota, na phaR tassbeeh aasa sota’ is:

Umr gawai wich maseeti, andar bahrya naal paleeti
kadi namaz toheed na neeti,
hun ki karna ae shor pukaar
ishq di nawi nawi bahar

This again repeats the point that Bulleh Shah was not condemning Namaz Roza in absolute terms, but he was emphasizing need for clean and clear intentions. This concept is also present in Quran, when Prophets are said to be sent for purifying and then educating humans. Without purity and khaloos e dil, ibadaat (prayers) don’t get accepted, thats why first step before ibadat is wazoo (ablution)

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

^ this seems to be pointing towards hypocrisy as compared to condemning namaz. A person who has spent most of his life in mosques but is internally filled with filth. Sadly fits most of our ulemas these days too.

[ajazali]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@muqawwee123

The very next stanza after ‘phook musla bhan satt lota, na phaR tassbeeh aasa sota’ is:

Umr gawai wich maseeti, andar bahrya naal paleeti
kadi namaz toheed na neeti,
hun ki karna ae shor pukaar
ishq di nawi nawi bahar

This again repeats the point that Bulleh Shah was not condemning Namaz Roza in absolute terms, but he was emphasizing need for clean and clear intentions. This concept is also present in Quran, when Prophets are said to be sent for purifying and then educating humans. Without purity and khaloos e dil, ibadaat (prayers) don’t get accepted, thats why first step before ibadat is wazoo (ablution)

I knew you could touch only easy part
(Bhatth Namazan Chakkarr Rozay)
However, point still stands, why talk against Roza and Namaz, why not tell people what you believe is “right”?
IMO, you cannot impress people by talking against what they believe and practice. This way you will make them rigid.

[ajazali]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@Ali_Syed

^ this seems to be pointing towards hypocrisy as compared to condemning namaz. A person who has spent most of his life in mosques but is internally filled with filth. Sadly fits most of our ulemas these days too.

Bulleh shah condemned Sharia. Yousaf Misali wrote in his book this line right after following Shair.

Bath namazan, chakarr rozay kalmay te phir gaye siyahi
Bulleh shah sho and milya bhulli bhiray lokaae.

its so easy to fit any shair on anyone you want, a lot of shair can fit secular and “liberals”

P.S Yousaf Misali is pro-orthodox sufis writer

[muqawwee123]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@ajazali

I knew you could touch only easy part
(Bhatth Namazan Chakkarr Rozay)
However, point still stands, why talk against Roza and Namaz, why not tell people what you believe is “right”?
IMO, you cannot impress people by talking against what they believe and practice. This way you will make them rigid.

I touched the concluding part. A poet writes a single poem in one state of mind. The subsequent lines after this ‘Bhatth Namazan’ shows that Bulleh Shah was not preaching absolute condemnation of Roza, Namaz.

Can we have historical references that Bulleh Shah himself abandon Namaz Roza in life? The source you provided in one of your posts ( referring anger of Shah Inayat due to blasphemous poetry) say that Bulleh Shah stayed at Shah Inayat’s dargah / khanqah for decades after Shah Inayat’s death teaching people his views. Preaching at the place of Shah Inayat and not offering Roza Namaz would have created non-acceptance of Bulleh Shah among masses.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@ajazali

Bulleh shah condemned Sharia. Yousaf Misali wrote in his book this line right after following Shair.

Bath namazan, chakarr rozay kalmay te phir gaye siyahi
Bulleh shah sho and milya bhulli bhiray lokaae.

its so easy to fit any shair on anyone you want, a lot of shair can fit secular and “liberals”

P.S Yousaf Misali is pro-orthodox sufis writer

I have this Yousuf Misali book and he calls Bulleh Shah ‘Sain’ with respect. He gives explanation with context of such poetry. He quoted many poets including Sultan Bahoo and saying of Hazrat Issa against the clergy who suffered from greed and show-off.

[ajazali]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@muqawwee123

I have this Yousuf Misali book and he calls Bulleh Shah ‘Sain’ with respect. He gives explanation with context of such poetry. He quoted many poets including Sultan Bahoo and saying of Hazrat Issa against the clergy who suffered from greed and show-off.

that good you have that book. that’s why I said he is pro-sufism, and these are his words that Bulleh shah Condemned Sharia.

[ajazali]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@muqawwee123

I touched the concluding part. A poet writes a single poem in one state of mind. The subsequent lines after this ‘Bhatth Namazan’ shows that Bulleh Shah was not preaching absolute condemnation of Roza, Namaz.

Can we have historical references that Bulleh Shah himself abandon Namaz Roza in life? The source you provided in one of your posts ( referring anger of Shah Inayat due to blasphemous poetry) say that Bulleh Shah stayed at Shah Inayat’s dargah / khanqah for decades after Shah Inayat’s death teaching people his views. Preaching at the place of Shah Inayat and not offering Roza Namaz would have created non-acceptance of Bulleh Shah among masses.

you cannot conclude a SHAIR with another MUSADDASS. That musaddass also includes lines , tark hallon kahar murdaar(dont eat hallal, eat haram)

[muqawwee123]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@ajazali

that good you have that book. that’s why I said he is pro-sufism, and these are his words that Bulleh shah Condemned Sharia.

he says Bulleh Shah condemned Shariat under foot-notes of ‘Ishq di nawi nawi bahar’ without mentioning context of such condemnation. In the same book, he gives detailed explanation for such condemnation and suggests that it was not absolute condemnation.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@ajazali

you cannot conclude a SHAIR with another MUSADDASS. That musaddass also includes lines , tark hallon kahar murdaar(dont eat hallal, eat haram)

Can we disintegrate Allama’s Shikwa, when it contains same thoughts in totality?

[ajazali]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@muqawwee123

Can we disintegrate Allama’s Shikwa, when it contains same thoughts in totality?

notion is Bulleh shah’s poetry is controversial, I would say that is bunch of unballanced thoughts.
moreover I would say why one need to talk against practices.
And if you realy want to conclude, that single shair is pretty much explainatory. “bhulli phiray lokaaee”, means poeple(not Mullah) are on wrong path and real things are not Roza namaz but only “inerself”.

[ajazali]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@muqawwee123

he says Bulleh Shah condemned Shariat under foot-notes of ‘Ishq di nawi nawi bahar’ without mentioning context of such condemnation. In the same book, he gives detailed explanation for such condemnation and suggests that it was not absolute condemnation.

by condemning others’ practices, is that the way sufis preach?
absolute or not, why condemn sharia and talk against Roza and Namaz?

[muqawwee123]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@ajazali

by condemning others’ practices, is that the way sufis preach?
absolute or not, why condemn sharia and talk against Roza and Namaz?

Its not condemnation of Roza namaz, its the condemnation of Roza and Namaz of those who offer it for sake of show-off and greed. I think these are two different things. When we read Surah e Ma’oon, we can understand this easily

Surah Maoon

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

@muqawwee123

I touched the concluding part. A poet writes a single poem in one state of mind. The subsequent lines after this ‘Bhatth Namazan’ shows that Bulleh Shah was not preaching absolute condemnation of Roza, Namaz.

Can we have historical references that Bulleh Shah himself abandon Namaz Roza in life? The source you provided in one of your posts ( referring anger of Shah Inayat due to blasphemous poetry) say that Bulleh Shah stayed at Shah Inayat’s dargah / khanqah for decades after Shah Inayat’s death teaching people his views. Preaching at the place of Shah Inayat and not offering Roza Namaz would have created non-acceptance of Bulleh Shah among masses.

The lines that you posted in post 147, do they come after these?

Whats the complete kaafi?