Building shrines over graves

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Building shrines over graves

The graves of Prophets, Sahaba and great Scholars need to be protected. If anyone has a problem with it, move to Northpole.

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Re: Building shrines over graves

Mashallah AliJan bhai excellent Post. I have always been against grave worshipping but uneducated and also some superstitious edcuated ones goto graves for seeking blessings . I hope they change their minds after reading your post

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Peace ya akh aqeel123

Al-Qur'an is siftAllah! Are you comparing it to the pious dead?

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Re: Building shrines over graves

^ tell me sumthng, is Quran superior or the Prophet? do you consider the Prophet to be dead?

The Hi/Bye Thread
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and who is even arguing against it?


what you saw is not evidence to prove that in fact those places are their graves. Your argument would only stand if there's an evidence


did I deny that ayah doesn't mention the word masjid, a place of worship? I'm asking you where does the ayah say that Allah Ta'ala told them to build masjid over their graves or any place for worship. Those people who did build a masjid, they did so according to their own desires.


this doesn't prove what you claimed "Why did Allah (swt) order the people of Ashaab e Kahaf to erect a mosque over their graves?". I've asked 3 times already: where does it say in the ayah that Allah Ta'ala ordered them to build the masjid (place of worship) over their graves? Why do I've to go to graves of dead people to make du'a to Allah Ta'ala or why does it has any significance in reagrd my du'a being accpeted. What the heck do mushrik and christians do? I don't see how holding onto such a belief in tawheed makes us any different from murikeen or christians.


so what? Where is the evidence for your claim: we can convert graves of pious people into a place of worship


What happened to the questions I asked you? You first said that Prophet (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) is buried inside the majid nabwi and now you've completely changed it. Muslims don't pray at the burial site of Prophet (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam), at least not the pray which you're alluding to. The dome over Prophet's (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) grave isn't a sharee' evidence for building shrines/domes over the graves of pious people and/or converting it into a place of worship. The dome was built in 7th century hijrah and I don't see how that's an evidence for what you people claim.

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is that even a legitimate comparison?

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-What kind of evidence do you want me to produce? Ask somebody whom you trust as to where the graves of Hazrat Ismail and his mother are.

-I did not know the exact verse and was too lazy and short on time to search and post it myself. I am not a hafiz e Quran and was completely assuming when i said "Allah SWT ordered them to erect a mosque". But if you read my last post, i have corrected and remodified my wordings once you had posted the verse. So you saying that you have asked me 3 times and so on holds very little ground as i never challenged you on the wordings of the verse regarding the command of Allah SWT. However read the point i raised in the last verse as to Allah SWT did not object to the masjid that was built over the graves of the Ashaab e Kahaf and to this day people go there to pray to Allah SWT (not to Ashaab e Kahaf!). Even in tafasir which Wahabis prescribe to such as Ibn Kathir it is said that it is unestablished whether it was the good party who built the masjid over their graves or a bad one.

My friend, please do not be so quick to compare Muslims with Christians and Jews in this regard. Allah is the creator and we are his creations. What Christians or Hiundus have done is ascribed and elevated the creations of Allah SWT to the level of the creator be it Isa (as) or the idols that they pray to. In the process they have also de-elevated Allah SWT by bringing him down to the level of his creations (not in a literal sense as its impossible for anyone to harm Allah in anyway but this means they have commited shirk or associated partners with Allah SWT). However what Islam teaches us is that the creator is nothing like the creations. He is simply above ALL and the ONLY deservant of the ibadat. This is a basic Islamic concept understood by all the Muslims. Every Muslim knows their shahada and has most likely has also read Sura Ikhlaas to know these. We as Muslims may have a lot of shortcomings in other areas but there is aboloutely no two opinions about this matter. Also, have you ever seen any Muslim praying towards a grave while considering it as a Qibla (direction faced during prayers)? Whenever you see people praying at the tombs, know that they are engrossed in the worship of Allah. They have not changed their deity. They worship Allah at this place because the place is associated with one of the beloved ones of Allah. It is a sign and symbol that reminds us of this great personality who is the dweller of this place.

Allah SWT made Safa and Marwa 'Symbols of Allah' because of their association with a Nabi who was a baby at that time and wife of a Nabi, i.e. Hajar wife of Ibrahim (as)

**Baqarah:158 Behold! Safa and Marwa are among the Symbols of Allah....

Hajj:32 "And whosoever honors the Symbols of Allah, then it is truly from the piety of the heart." **

I am basically short on time now so i will continue later but let me ask you something:

What would visiting the tomb/shrine/masjid of the Ashaab e Kahaf remind you of?
What would visiting the grave/tomb/masjid/hujra of the Prophet remind you of?
What would visiting the graves of the Shohda e Badar o Ohad remind you of?
What would visiting the shrine of Imam Hussain remind you of?

If these places arent the Symbols of Allah then tell me what are?

IF IT ISNT THE POWER OF TAWHEED AND POWER OF THE MESSAGE OF ALLAH THAT YOU ARE OVERWHELMED BY THEN I DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS THE ATTRACTION FOR THE PEOPLE TO GO THROUGH THE TROUBLES THAT THEY DO TO VISIT THESE PLACES!

If i stand and pray a 2 rakat nafal there to Allah SWT then do you see any wrong with that? Is there a salat more beautiful than one that is offered from the bottom of the heart and soul? If i look at these Symbols of Allah and prostrate to Allah SWT in sheer submisiveness then how is it shirk?

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let me rerephrase the question for psyah. Is the Prophet superior or his miracle, Quran?

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People who have no problem with the high buildings being built over everywhere specially in Makkah when according to a hadith tall buildings are sign of Qurb-Qyammah.

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is it still a legitimate question? what is a Qur'an?


So if we stop building the tall buildings, would the qurb-qyammmah be changed somehow? I'm not arguing in favour of destroying our heritage but I don't see any common sense behind your point. Something which is bound to happen will happen regardless of our actions. We should be happy that the prophecy of Messenger of Allah (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) came true. Also, how is this all linked to prohibition of building domes/shrines over graves?

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a textual evidence. If I were to ask people I trust, I don't think you're going to buy that.


I apologize for not relizing that you rectify from your earlier statement. Now tell me how does Allah Ta'ala not objecting to what people did is an evidence that He proved it? Why didn't Allah Ta'ala say that He told them to do so or it is ok to do so? Again, what people do is not an evidence for it. There has to be a sharee' evidence saying that it is permissible to build place of worship at graves of prophets, and pious people.


There are people who go to graves of pious people and do sajoud. There has to be an evidence for permissibility of praying salah at tombs/graves or doing any act of worship. I know you're a shia but this may help you a bit:

'A'isha reported: Umm Habiba and Umm Salama made a mention before the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) of a church which they had seen in Abyssinia and which had pictures in it. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: When a pious person amongst them (among the religious groups) dies they build a place of worship on his grave, and then decorate it with such pictures. They would be the worst of creatures on the Day of judgment in the sight of Allah.
**
'A'isha reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said during his illness from which he never recovered: **Allah cursed the Jews and the Christians that they took the graves of their prophets as mosques. She ('A'isha) reported:** Had it not been so, his (Prophet's) grave would have been in an open place, but it could not be due to the fear that it may not be taken as a mosque.**

both of the above ahadith are found in sahih muslim.


yes so? We do whatever has been made permissible or obligatory for us. We don't do which has no sharee' evidence for it. Just because Allah Ta'ala told us to do certain acts at Safa and Marwa in rememberance of Sunnah of Hajrah (peace be upon her), doesn't mean that we can make everything else permissible using that analogy.

Let me tell you basic principle:In worldly matters, a thing is halal unless there is an evidence of prohibition, meaning the burden of the proof is on the person who prohibits it.

While in matters of worship (ibadah), it is haram unless there is an evidence for it, meaning the burden of proof is upon the person who claims it to be permissable and part of deen. If one claims an act of worship to be part of deen without any evidence, then he has called to an innovation.


ok....but how does this prove that we can build shrines/tombs over the graves of Prophets (peace be upon them), and pious people and convert them into a place of wroship?


did Allah Ta'ala or his Prophet (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) say that these are among the symbols of Allah?


yes, this is a bid'ah. Allah Ta'ala clearly says in the Qur'an that no one can make anything halal or haraam except Him. Is there a sharee' evidence for permissibility of such an act? If not then why are you doing it? Are you telling me that you are more keen for more reward than the Prophet (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) or his companions (radiAllahu anhuma)? Are you telling me that Allah Ta'ala and His Messenger (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) left this out from deen but it helps us to gain more reward? Do you know better than them?

Allahu A'lam

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Re: Building shrines over graves

This is an endless and useless debate.

The Wahabi/salafi/takfiri brigade would not relent from their extremely literal interpretations and the momins would stand steadfast on the true religion.

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What about the pyramids by Egyptians and Aztecs

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Re: Building shrines over graves

^ As a Shia, we basically have very very different stance on the subject and i do not think i should go into further details as you wouldn't accept my sources just like i wouldnt accept yours. This is a non-issue for the Shias and i guess its much more appropriate for the Sunnis to sort it out between themselves first (Deobandi, Baralvi) since they follow pretty much the same sources for their religion.

In general terms though i will make few quick points:

-I do not need to believe anything new as i already believe that they are in Hijare Ismail. Do a google search for GRAVE HAZRAT ISMAIL and you will find plenty of Sunni websites stating that.

-There is not prohibitation for a Muslim to pray anywhere and tomb and a grave is no different as our qibla still is Baitullah regardless of where we pray. There is every chance that the place you are praying at the moment might carry a grave or two. Doesnt mean you are praying to the dead. Somebody real Jahil would do such a thing.
Had it been Haraam to pray next to the graves then there would have been prohibitation for example in the Ashaab e Kahaf verse. You are asking me to show if Allah was pleased with this act and i am asking you to show if he was unpleased. This is almost impossible to solve as even the Sunni muffasir remain undecisive as to whether it was a good act or otherwise.

One thing is for sure that our overall understanding of of things are very different. We believe that the traditions used by those who prohibit the ziarat of graves are incorrect. Or they have not understood the context of the traditions. And it has been the practice of the Messenger of Allah (saw.) to visit graves. He visited the grave of his dear mother and wept upon it. His companions joined him in the lamentation. (Sahih Muslim 2:671). In the same way Fatemah Zahra (sa) visited the tomb of her father. Muslims throughout the ages have visited the tomb of the Messenger of Allah (saws) and the graves of the Imams of Ahle Bayt (as) that are situated in the Baqi cemetery of Madinah.

Therefore if you prohibit the visitation to graves it will go against some authentic traditions, like,

"Verily, I had restrained you from visiting the graves. Now, visit them. Certainly, it reminds one of the Hereafter."

(Sunan Tirmidhi, Vol.3, Pg. 370)

-Shaa'ir Allah or Symbols of Allah, i presented two very clear verses and a basic principle Quran is putting forward, i.e. a place with association with a Prophet is a Symbol of Allah. Also Muqaam e Ibrahim is a place of worship according to Quran and so much can be written about these verses but again your interpretion will be very very different to mine and again i am short on time.

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Re: Building shrines over graves

Allahkabanda

That was the most stupid post on Religion forum.

Quick, start working on making all the signs of qyamah true as soon ASAP. Now you have started mocking hadith too? You should seek refuge in Allah from being alive when Qyamat comes.

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What about them? Did I raise them? or any muslim made them?

Btw, I'm not against shrines etc.

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dont worry this aint for u.

funny only Wahabhis found these traditions prohibiting tombs and shrines. btw when Umar conqured Egypt there were & still r lots of tombs built over Prophets graves, why didnt he demolish them if he knew such traditions?

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lets share our FACE BOOK ACCOUNT
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I have a Question for all Pro Shrine people and the Question is

" IF SHRINES ARE ISLAMIC THAN WHY DIDN"T THE PROPHET PEACE BE UPON HIM BUILD SHRINES ON GRAVES OF HIS MOST BELOVED UNCLE HAZRAT HAMZA RAZI ALA TALAA?"

and

Why non of the Caliphs built Shrines?

I have asked a simple question and i expect a simple Answer.

A page long Answer won't do...and I wont read it!

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So in other words its like justifying one wrong with another? Two wrongs doesnt make one right!

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are u saying tht anything not done by the Prophet by himself becomes automaticaly unislamic?

for example, the escalators in the masjidul haraam were not put in by the Prophet, are they unislamic and deservant to be destroyed too?