Buddha's religion is fundamentally a religion of Indus Valley Civilization

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Buddha's religion is fundamentally a religion of Indus Valley Civilization

Buddhism originated from the Shramana movement which was a Non-Vedic movement parallel to Vedic Hinduism. Some historians believe that this originated from the Indus Valley Cililization. Some historians don't accept that. The origins of Shramana movement has not been authenticated historically. There has always been a theological and philosophical conflict between the two movements. Modern Hinduism as is practiced today can be regarded as a combination of Vedic and Shramana traditions as it is substantially influenced by both traditions.Though ideas of Karma,Liberation and Samsara are present in the early Vedic texts ,concise arguments and definitions arose from the Shramana tradition. Yoga on the other hand was practiced in the Indus valley since there have been various seals recovered which have yogic poses on them.

Do you have some knowledge about the origin of Hinduism and Budhism?

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Buddha's religion is fundamentally a religion of Indus Valley Civilization

@khoji

Oops. I agreed with it earlier by mistake. Vedic Religion was similar to Old Iranina religion. It was not originally practiced in Indus Valley. Rather it was imported in Indus Valley by white people. The religion of Indus Valley was the precursor of current Hinduism.

The religion closest to Indus Valley religion is Buddhism. Because Buddha incorporated the teachings of Indus Valley religion in his teachings.

This might not be exactly true. But this is what it looks like.

Dont the seals that have been discovered from Indus Valley look different from Hinduism and Budhism? Which religion do you think came first Hindusim or Budhism?

[calypsodc]

Re: Buddha’s religion is fundamentally a religion of Indus Valley Civilization

@Ali_Syed

Do you have some knowledge about the origin of Hinduism and Budhism?

I thought I just mentioned about the origin of Buddhism and its effect of vedic religions and modern day Hinduism in my post . Did I not make myself clear? Which part do you disagree with ?

[calypsodc]

Re: Buddha’s religion is fundamentally a religion of Indus Valley Civilization

@Ali_Syed

Dont the seals that have been discovered from Indus Valley look different from Hinduism and Budhism? Which religion do you think came first Hindusim or Budhism?

Neither. Both hinduism from vedic hinduism and shramana beliefs were existant parallel to each other.

…

Seals have been found at Mohenjo-Daro depicting a figure standing on its head, and another sitting cross-legged in what some call a yoga-like pose (see image, the so-called Pashupati, below).
This figure, sometimes known as a Pashupati, has been variously identified. Sir John Marshall identified a resemblance to the Hindu god, Shiva.[SUP][49]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilization#cite_note-50)[/SUP] If this can be validated, it would be evidence that some aspects of Hinduism predate the earliest texts, the Veda.

Some Indus valley seals show swastikas, which are found in other religions worldwide, especially in Indian religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. The earliest evidence for elements of Hinduism are alleged to have been present before and during the early Harappan period.[SUP][63]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Phallic symbols interpreted as the much later Hindu Shiva lingam have been found in the Harappan remains.[SUP][64]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][65]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/IndusValleySeals_swastikas.JPG/200px-IndusValleySeals_swastikas.JPG http://bits.wikimedia.org/static-1.21wmf6/skins/common/images/magnify-clip.png
Swastika Seals from the Indus Valley Civilization preserved at the British Museum.

Many Indus valley seals show animals. One motif shows a horned figure seated in a posture reminiscent of the Lotus position and surrounded by animals was named by early excavators Pashupati (lord of cattle), an epithet of the later Hindu gods Shiva and Rudra.[SUP][66]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][67]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][68]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
In view of the large number of figurines found in the Indus valley, some scholars believe that the Harappan people worshipped a Mother goddess symbolizing fertility, a common practice among rural Hindus even today.[SUP][69]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP] However, this view has been disputed by S. Clark who sees it as an inadequate explanation of the function and construction of many of the figurines.[SUP][70]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
There are no religious buildings or evidence of elaborate burials. If there were temples, they have not been identified.[SUP][71]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP] However, House - 1 in HR-A area in Mohenjadaro’s Lower Town has been identified as a possible temple.[SUP][72]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
In the earlier phases of their culture, the Harappans buried their dead; however, later, especially in the Cemetery H culture of the late Harrapan period, they also cremated their dead and buried the ashes in burial urns.
It is possible that a temple exists to the East of the great bath, but the site has not been excavated. There is a Buddhist reliquary mound on the site and permission has not been granted to move it.[SUP][73]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Until there is sufficient evidence, speculation about the religion of the IVC is largely based on a retrospective view from a much later Hindu perspective.[SUP][46]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
Ram Prasad Chanda, who supervised Indus Valley Civilisation excavations, states[SUP][74]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP] that, “Not only the seated deities on some of the Indus seals are in Yoga posture and bear witness to the prevalence of Yoga in the Indus Valley Civilisation in that remote age, the standing deities on the seals also show Kayotsarga (a standing or sitting posture of meditation) position. The Kayotsarga posture is peculiarly Jain. It is a posture not of sitting but of standing. In the Adi Purana Book XV III, the Kayotsarga posture is described in connection with the penance of Rsabha, also known as Vrsabha.”[SUP][75]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
Christopher Key Chappel also notes some other possible links with Jainism.[SUP][76]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Seal 420, unearthed at Mohenjodaro portrays a person with 3 or possibly 4 faces. Jain iconography frequently depicts its Tirthankaras with four faces, symbolizing their presence in all four directions. This four-faced attribute is also true of many Hindu gods, important among them being Brahma, the chief creator deity.[SUP][77]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)[/SUP] In addition, Depictions of a bull appear repeatedly in the artifacts of the Indus Valley. Lannoy, Thomas McEvilley and Padmanabh Jaini have all suggested that the abundant use of the bull image in the Indus Valley civilization indicates a link with Rsabha, whose companion animal is the bull. This seal can be interpreted in many ways, and authors such as Christopher Key Chappel and Richard Lannoy support the Jain interpretation.[SUP][76]](Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia)

[/SUP]Indus Valley Civilisation - Wikipedia

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Buddha’s religion is fundamentally a religion of Indus Valley Civilization

@calypsodc

I thought I just mentioned about the origin of Buddhism and its effect of vedic religions and modern day Hinduism in my post . Did I not make myself clear? Which part do you disagree with ?

What was the religion of Northern India prior to Maurya? I always thought that Budhism is a younger religion as compared to Hinduism? Do you reckon both were present side by side?

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Buddha’s religion is fundamentally a religion of Indus Valley Civilization

I think Khoji is right the religion of Gandhara (Northern Pakistan) seems to be Budhism for a very long time. Same can be said about East India (Assam and Behar), maybe thats the reason why the people from Gandhara and the East were looked down upon by mainland India even in Mahabharata times. The vedic religions that were present in the Indus valley civilization would have evolved into Budhism in our part of the world.

Gandhara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Gandharan city of Taxila was an important Buddhist[SUP][9]](Gandhara - Wikipedia)[/SUP] centre of learning from the 5th century BC[SUP][9]](Gandhara - Wikipedia)[/SUP] to the 2nd century.

in the 5th century Budhism centers of Gandhara were destroyed by White Huns. After that Hinduism gained ground in Punjab under Hindushahis (6th Century AD to 11th century AD).

Taxila

c. 460–470 CE – The Hephthalites sweep over Gandhāra and Panjab; and cause wholesale destruction of the Buddhist monasteries and stupas at Takṣaśilā, which never again recovers.

[calypsodc]

Re: Buddha’s religion is fundamentally a religion of Indus Valley Civilization

@Ali_Syed

What was the religion of Northern India prior to Maurya? I always thought that Budhism is a younger religion as compared to Hinduism? Do you reckon both were present side by side?

U r looking at Hinduism and Buddhism from a One dimensional POV.

Hinduism is a term for a wide variety of related religious traditions native to India.[SUP][1]](History of Hinduism - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Historically, it encompasses the development of Religion in India since the Iron Age traditions, which in turn stretch back to the prehistoric religions such as that of the Bronze Age Indus Valley Civilization followed by the Iron Age Vedic religion[SUP]citation needed][/SUP].
**By the early centuries CE, Indian philosophy was divided into Astika (orthodox) and Nastika (heterodox) depending on whether the authority of the Vedas was accepted. The Astika group was further divided into six branches, evolving from about the 2nd century BCE to the 6th century CE, viz. Samkhya, Yoga, Nyaya, Vaisheshika, Mimamsa, and Vedanta. The Buddhist, Jain, Carvaka and some other schools were classified as Nastika. The different schools in this period competed for adherents and influenced each other. **Meanwhile, Tantra and tantric practices emerged in both Astika and Nastika forms. Monotheistic religions like Shaivism, Shaktism and Vaishnavism developed during the same period through the Bhakti movement. Classical Hinduism emerges as a revival of Vedic traditions fused with local folk traditions, with the gradual decline of Buddhism in India starting from around the eighth century.[SUP][2]](History of Hinduism - Wikipedia)

[/SUP]History of Hinduism - Wikipedia

[calypsodc]

Re: Buddha's religion is fundamentally a religion of Indus Valley Civilization

I think Khoji is right the religion of Gandhara (Northern Pakistan) seems to be Budhism for a very long time. Same can be said about East India (Assam and Behar), maybe thats the reason why the people from Gandhara and the East were looked down upon by mainland India even in Mahabharata times.

The Mahabharata predates Buddhism by a large period. Whatever the reason, the inhabitants were "looked down upon" during Mahabharata times was not due to Buddhism even Shramana beliefs. During the Mahabharata times, these regions both North East and Gandhara were related by marriage to the Pandavas and Kauravas.

[QUOTE]

The vedic religions that were present in the Indus valley civilization would have evolved into Budhism in our part of the world.

[/QUOTE]

Buddhism did not evolve from Vedic religions in any part of the subcontinent. Do you have any proof or links pointing to that fact.

[khoji]

Re: Buddha's religion is fundamentally a religion of Indus Valley Civilization

I think Vedic religion (which later became Hinduism) was a foreign import in India. It was foreign because it was imported by foreigners who were the kins of Iranian people. This is why the old Iranian gods share their names with many Vedic/Hindu gods.

This fact appears to be unacceptable to many Indians because they think it somehow makes them foreigner in their own country.
But I say that present day Indians (and Pakistanis) are both foreigners AND locals at the same time. Because they share genes with both foreigners (Vedic people) and locals (Indus Valley people).

This is a historical fact. Not an ideological disagreement.