^ ok so WHY is it so important for them to recite naats at the top of their lungs, using loudspeakers, lasting all night long?!? the Rabbi Awwal that just passed was just a terrible example of this, i'm surprised windows weren't shattered! Their leaders should really put their foot down and put an end to it. It is really rude behavior and there could be other ways of expressing their love for the Prophet SAW rather then keeping the rest of the non-Brelvi awaam awake!
Loud-speaker and annoying others have nothing to do with Brelvi aqidah.....it's the culture of Pakistan that needs changing. If you don't hear naats in loud voice you'll hear bollywood and pop songs.
Also, other sects like deobandis and wahabis have loud speakers too in their mosques and they all compete with each other in being the most noisy one.
^ ok so WHY is it so important for them to recite naats at the top of their lungs, using loudspeakers, lasting all night long?!? the Rabbi Awwal that just passed was just a terrible example of this, i'm surprised windows weren't shattered! Their leaders should really put their foot down and put an end to it. It is really rude behavior and there could be other ways of expressing their love for the Prophet SAW rather then keeping the rest of the non-Brelvi awaam awake!
exactly, I've shared some other examples in this thread. This is the reason why Deobandis are stricter on these kind of gatherings. Allah knows best, barelvi ulema need to do more educating and less naats and naray baazi.
Loud-speaker and annoying others have nothing to do with Brelvi aqidah.....it's the culture of Pakistan that needs changing. If you don't hear naats in loud voice you'll hear bollywood and pop songs.
Also, other sects like deobandis and wahabis have loud speakers too in their mosques and they all compete with each other in being the most noisy one.
I figured it wouldn't be part of their aqeedah, i guess its just that its mostly harri pagRhi followers who happen to be doing most of the disturbing. And no, we dont get to hear songs at all... as for the other groups you mentioned, i rarely hear stuff from them lasting all night long... its mostly naats.
I cannot explain how huge and loud the speakers used during rabbi-awwal are :( and if someone's positioned it between a line flats then its just too much...
like i said, the imams of such groups should really take a stand on the matter and stop the practise... or maybe they already have and their followers just dont follow...
The green turban people are called Dawat-e-Islami, they are barelvi by fiqh and I believe they are Qadri by tariqah. Not all qadri barelvis belong to this group, their identification of the green turban is due to their specific sheikh - who represents Dawat-e-Islami.
Likewise not all Deobandis are from tablighi jamaat. In fact, a local imam (to where I work) is a Deobandi by fiqh and Naqshbandi by tariqah. Tablighi jamaat are not an official tariqah, but their activities do include some tassuwwuf.
I have a beautiful friend who is Barelvi by fiqh, Shadhili by tariqah, but he attends Tabligh on occasions. When we see people who search for wherever they can get goodness from these are the people who we need to appoint as our leaders.
Incidentally Maulana IsHaq - an Ahl-e-hadith (wahabi-hanbali) pakistani Imam calls both Deobandis and Barelvis brothers in Islam.
Not all tablighis are deobandis, not all deobandis are tablighis. :)
Wait a minute man, if you are referring to what is known as Tablghi Jamaat that was formed by Moulana Ilyas and has its center in Raiwind then that jamaat is 101% deobandi school of thought.
During British rule the muslim clergy split into 2 factions, Brelvis with their pro-sufi stance and deobandis with more neutral stance.
Brelvis & Ahmedi were against Jihad and Deobandi were in favor of it. British used Ahmed Raza khan and Ahmad Qadian to run a campaign against the scholars of Deobandi and so call Wahabai campaign started. Anyone who didn't follow Sufi Brelvis style was call Wahabi. There is a very good video on Youtube about the history of Brelvi and Deobandi split and ideology.
Brelvis & Ahmedi were against Jihad and Deobandi were in favor of it. British used Ahmed Raza khan and Ahmad Qadian to run a campaign against the scholars of Deobandi and so call Wahabai campaign started. Anyone who didn't follow Sufi Brelvis style was call Wahabi. There is a very good video on Youtube about the history of Brelvi and Deobandi split and ideology.
i used to believe this too that britishers started brelvi fiqh but it's not true....and wahabi sect started from Saudi before brelvi and deobandi schools so this is not true either.
Wait a minute man, if you are referring to what is known as Tablghi Jamaat that was formed by Moulana Ilyas and has its center in Raiwind then that jamaat is 101% deobandi school of thought.
No doubt it has origins in deoband school (in reality from the sunnah:)).. but when I say "not all tablighis are deobandis and not all deobandis are tablighis" I mean, not all those who go in tabligh associate themselves with Deoband and not all those who associate themselves with Deoband go on tabligh.
Example, tablighis are all over the world, you get Arabs, English, Africans...etc not all are deobandis :)
Example, some deobandis go on tabligh, some focus on tasawwuf, some on fiqh..etc not all are tablighis.
In South Asia Muslim are divide into groups because of weak Imam. Major split happens during the British rule of India, 3 separate Muslim group were created by British.
In my personal opinion Barelvism is a sort of a cult but thanks to Dr Israr, Dr. Zakir Naik and many others, people are learning about real Islam and rejecting Barelvism.
India has Darululoom in many states, Gujrat, Andra, Karnataka and they don’t associate themselves with Ullama of deoband but they follow Sunni religion and rejected Barelvism.
Barelvis have already lost NWFP to Tabligh-e-Jamat, Baloch are sunnni and they don’t follow biditi Barelvism. Barelvism is only in Punjab. Thanks to Dr Israr, Dr. Zakir Naik and many others, people are learning about real Islam and rejecting Barelvism.
I don’t agree with Mr.Ghamidi on many issues but I love his answer about Milad.
In my personal opinion Barelvism is a sort of a cult but thanks to Dr Israr, Dr. Zakir Naik and many others, people are learning about real Islam and rejecting Barelvism.
India has Darululoom in many states, Gujrat, Andra, Karnataka and they don’t associate themselves with Ullama of deoband but they follow Sunni religion and rejected Barelvism.
Barelvis have already lost NWFP to Tabligh-e-Jamat, Baloch are sunnni and they don’t follow biditi Barelvism. Barelvism is only in Punjab. Thanks to Dr Israr, Dr. Zakir Naik and many others, people are learning about real Islam and rejecting Barelvism.
I don’t agree with Mr.Ghamidi on many issues but I love his answer about Milad.
Bro, read through this thread if you haven’t.
Try to get the information from one source, on one hand you call barelvis misguided and on the other hand your quoting Ghamdi.
Also, you quote Bin Bazz. hmm?
Also I don’t get your last 2 lines “Muslim(Hanafi, Shafi, Maliki and Hanbali) vs Barelvi” ** you do know Deobandis consider the Barelvis as Muslims…
Try to get the information from one source, on one hand you call barelvis misguided and on the other hand your quoting Ghamdi.
Also, you quote Bin Bazz. hmm?
Also I don't get your last 2 lines "*Muslim(Hanafi, Shafi, Maliki and Hanbali)* vs Barelvi" ** you do know Deobandis consider the Barelvis as Muslims...
I stated above that I don't agree with Mr.Ghamidi on many issues......but I love the way he answer about Milad.
I don't agree with you, I don't consider deobandi as sect.
Please stop copying pasting in every post.....you follow Dr. Zakir and Ghamidi, that's fine and we got that.
This thread is not really meant for ghamidi and Zakir Naik's follower because I wanted to know what Brelvis and Deobandis think of each other, I'm already aware of Zakir Naik and Ghamidi and alikes' position, if you wish you can open up another thread.
May Allah preserve you, it is remarkable that you responded to sort of off-topic point but no response to on topic point.
Prophet (sal-allahu alayhi wa salaam) said that Allah makes a house in jannah for a person who gives up arguing with his brother even if he is right. So Allhamdulillah, I would prefer a house in jannah
However, allow me to clear some misconceptions for sake of others.
I was talking about THE SUNNI TRADITION.
and when did ashariyyah and maturidyyah become sunni tradition? Yes, maybe in sufi world but not among the people of the sunnah.
As for Athari, Athari is not a School of Speculative Theology nor a School of Law.
it is to a certain extent since it is counter part of other two so called "sunni" traditions. It is THE aqeedah of the salaf and term by itself implies that it is based on traditions unlike the opinion of men (i.e., asha'riyyah)
It's an opinion of Imam Hanbal
no, it isn't. It was THE understanding of all the Salaf as all the Imams extensively narrated from the Qur'an and the Sunnah and understanding of the sahabas (radiAllahu anhuma). It is sort of attributed to Imam Ahmad (rahimahullah) because he championed and revived it unlike other Imams during his era. How can something as core as aqeedah become integral part of our deen if it is merely an opinion as you claim it!?
and some Sunni scholars regard it as a third aqidah along with Ashari and Mitrudi and some don't,
that is not correct again. No one excludes athariyyah as not being one of the schools of theology including deviant asha'ris and maturidis. What most don't recognize are the so called 2 schools of theology you speak of. Everyone is agreed upon the fact that athariyyah is the aqeedah of ahl al-hadith wal-athaar.
and that Athari Aqidah has nothing to do with these so called Salafis' aqidah of today.
Allhamdulillah, that's what every deviant say yet they can't prove it.
Again, Imam Malik (rahimahullah) said that whatever was not part of deen during the time of sahabas it will never be part of deen during our times.
May Allah guide us all and let us die on haqq, ameen
that is not correct again. No one excludes athariyyah as not being one of the schools of theology including deviant asha'ris and maturidis. What most don't recognize are the so called 2 schools of theology you speak of. Everyone is agreed upon the fact that athariyyah is the aqeedah of ahl al-hadith wal-athaar.
walaykum as-salam,
brother that is a pretty bold statement, you have to be kiddin'? Can you back that up?
→ **Deobandi is not a sect or ideology. **
**Saying ‘sect’ or ‘ideology’ is confusing, let’s say Rai’ Deoband is a sub-fiqh of the Hanafi school (madhab) … happy? **
It is propaganda by Barelvis against Muslim in India & Pakistan. There is differences of opinion between Muslims and Barlevis on few issues.
**How odd to say both differences of opinion are on a few issues yet you call Barelvis something other than Muslim when the Deobandi scholars call them Muslims! **
It was Islamic ullama who fought against British in British India not the followers of Ahmad Rada Khan. Muslim who believe in pure Islam are labeled as Deobandi by Bidati and grave worshiper.
Here is a famous Barelvi known for his jihad - and who is shaheed, so calling them passive - anti-fighters is a lie.
**See how the Deobandis are calling themselves by the same name that you say “bidati and grave worshiper” are calling the “Muslims”. If this is true then why are the “Muslims” calling themselves “Deobandi”? I have been raised up in a Deobandi masjid, hence I am Deobandi by fiqh, **their constitution mentions the term “Deobandi”, so someone needs to gettheir facts straight.
This is a historical fact that Ahmed Rada Khan and Mirza Ahmad Qadian were British agent, need a say more. I guess most of Barelivs don’t know that Ahmed Raza Khan was against Jihad.
I highly doubt this to be true, unfortunately if this were true his books would not say so since it would be a secret, and if it were not true then the only references we would have would be from the accusers. Either way there is no evidence from the Barelvi works that either supports or dismisses this claim. So as a Muslim should do is to give benefit of doubt.
Ok about this green color, Green Turban is not a sunnah, since Rasullullh (s.a.w) never wore Green turban. You can ask any scholar in Islam, Hanafi, Shafi, Maliki and humbali. ←
Nobody is calling it a Sunnah, however it is well documented that green was amongst the favourite colours of Sayiduna Muhammad (SAW).
**–> This is also another propoganda by Bralevis aganist Tablighi Jamat that every Tablighi is Wahabi/Deobandi and tabligh is only limited to South Asia and Pakistan/Indian/Bangladeshi. **
Nobody is saying that here … who are you answering?
Effort of Tabligh is all over the world, from remote mountains to big cities like, London, Paris, Moscow, Rome, Barcelona, New York, Caracas, Riyadh, Dubai, all 4 corners of the world.
Ok so you are pro-tablighi … good for you.
Tablighi from Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yeman follow Hambali Madhab Jordan, Eqypt, Somalia, Libya, Tunisa follow Shafi Madhab Sudan, Malik, Ivory coast, Niger and Nigera, Morroco follow Maliki Madhad.
**Tablighi from South Cenral Asia follow Hanafi Madhab, Tablighi from Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines, Burma, Vietnam, Laos, PAPA New guinea follow Shafi madhab, ** Tablighi from Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Bangladesh, Nepal follow Hanafi Madhab In European countries, mainly Arabs are doing the Tablighi effort and they follow Shafi and Maliki Madhab
Here is a source for Arab speaking Tablighi.
A beautuful site for Arabic speaking brothers, wherein you will find Tablighi bayanaat of our Akabir; Maulana Saad Sahab DB, Haji Abdul Wahab Sab db, Maulana Ahmed Laat Sab etc in Arabic.
Please find below the link of an Arabic bayan by Maulana Saad Sab in Ijtema Yemen held on 28 Muharram 1429 H. http://www.binatiih.com
Jamaat at-Tableegh seem to be the largest and most proactive movement in the Arab peninsula<—
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—>Brelvis are badati and ignorant when it comes to deen. Abdul-Qadir al-Jailani (R.A) (d. 561) was a noted Sunni Hanbali preacher, Sufi sheikh and the figurehead of the Qadiri Sufi order. His contribution to the Muslim world earned him the title al-Gauth al Azam (the “Supreme Helper”). Many Ignorant Bralvis think that Abdul-Qadir Jailani was Hanafi<----
**Many ignorant people think by making an example of other ignorant people from a fiqh it is evidence against the opinions of their scholars. **