deobandis are not linked to violence as much as they are known for their non capitulation in the face of political adversity. its an issue the school win and lose many followers over. for this aspect, i think it is a grave sin to give up on the ummah politically, the Prohpet salllallahu alaihi wasallam would not have done it.
as regards to the implementation of sharia in afghanistan, did the Prophet pbuh really relay us a religion we are not supposed to implement in our own lands? naudhubillah
I don’t know why your going all defensive, if you had read my posts with an open mind without putting my political views before everything else, maybe you would realize I respect barelvis as brothers and never once I called them mushrik or whatnot.
Nobody is talking about the “correct” way of performing milad. All I stated were facts on the ground (subcontinent), if you want to turn a blind eye to the fitna, go ahead. There are many who commit shirk because of such gatherings and extreme use of tawassul. You want to tell me, ulema have fatwas approving this? Subhanallah…
And let’s not go into politics because I can open up a can of worms on groups connected to barelvis (dawat-e-islami..etc) and it will not look so nice because it’s just that, politics. Not to mention you have a distorted view on the history of Afghanistan wars and groups. At least educate yourself on Taliban instead of recycling the same old CNN nonsense that every Tom Dick Harry are spewing.
:k:
Bro, people have this nationalism pride, don’t know why when this same pride results in death and destruction. That’s why this ummah looks hopeless, dead!
no, there are more: Murjis, Kharjis, Jahmis, Mu’tazalitie, Kullabitis etc.
And the aqeedah of the Salaf, Atharis. I wonder how you forgot this. I guess they have taught you well to believe that aqeedah of the salaf is not haqq; so, it’s not your fault.
[quote="“hareem01, post:41, topic:220279"”]
My understanding is similar to that of khoji’s, only I wouldn’t keep a chair for the Prophet(SAW) to sit down as I believe he(SAW) doesn’t need a physical object to sit down.
[/quote]
so you believe that Prophet (sal-allahu alayhi wa salaam) is alive and comes to these gatherings? If so, then it means Abu Bakr (radiAllahu anho) lied that he (sal-allahu alayhi wa salaam) had passed away and rest of the sahabas mourning was fake!? I hope you sufis actually understand implication of such believes one day.
[quote="“hareem01, post:41, topic:220279"”]
But there might be other reasons for keeping the chair there, may be Brelvis do this out of respect for the Prophet(SAW), which is fine.
[/quote]
there is no other reason, that’s what they believe. What sort of respect is that? I didn’t know that defying shari’ah is respect for the Prophet (sal-allahu alayhi wa salaam). I’m sure Abu Bakr, Umar, Ali, Uthamn, Abdullah ibn Abbas, Aishah, etc. (radiAllahu anhuma) didn’t keep chair for the Prophet (sal-allahu alayhi wa salaam) in their religious gatherings so he can sit on it or even out of respect for him. When they didn’t then who are you to say that you (plural) respect the Prophet (sal-allahu alayhi wa salaam) more than those people!? This is no different than modernist who claim that they know more about deen than the companions of Allah’s Messengers (sal-allahu alayhi wa salaam).
[quote]
never once I called them mushrik or whatnot.
[/quote]
It is not just YOU we are discussing.
[quote]
if you want to turn a blind eye to the fitna, go ahead.
[/quote]
Again. It is only people like you who consider it fitna. Just like others consider many of your practices fitna.
And sad part about deobandis is that they don't stop at just calling others mushrik and their practices fitnah, but actually resort to violence to stop what they don't like. This is why Taliban waged fasad against Muslims of Afghanistan, and still called it a "jihad". (naoozobillah)
It is this holier-than-thou attitude of many deobandis which is the root cause of Evil in Pakistan.
Again. It is only people like you who consider it fitna. Just like others consider many of your practices fitna.
And sad part about deobandis is that they don't stop at just calling others mushrik and their practices fitnah, but actually resort to violence to stop what they don't like. This is why Taliban waged fasad against Muslims of Afghanistan, and still called it a "jihad". (naoozobillah)
Again, you either openly accept the practices happening in the subcontinent or reject them outright, which is it? If a Muslim is he who stays away from anything that even invites him to shirk, then why do you support such things?
And once again you do not have any information in regards to Taliban. All I hear is the same old recycled CNN and typical dawat-e-islami stuff. Did you know that tasawwuf is accepted and practiced by deobandis as well? Yes even Taliban.
Dude, Muslims are people of action too, what's wrong with jihad? Are you like those qadiani kuffar who reject jihad? It is part of Islam, you either accept or reject.
[quote]
If a Muslim is he who stays away from anything that even invites him to shirk, then why do you support such things?
[/quote]
Again. You can't comprehend that what you consider shirk may or may not be true. So don't be judgmental about others.
Because if you have objections on other people's practices then so have they on your practices.
[quote]
And once again you do not have any information in regards to Taliban.
[/quote]
Didn't Taliban consider their fight against Afghan people a jihad?
And that's the point. The "holier-than-thou" attitude of many people, especially deobandis, results in violence against Muslim people because they consider the practices 'shirk' and thus consider the people 'mushrik'.
Again. You can't comprehend that what you consider shirk may or may not be true. So don't be judgmental about others.
Because if you have objections on other people's practices then so have they on your practices.
Well then shall I remain confused like this or should I receive some information from you?
Btw, what is it that you think I consider shirk? Maybe there is a misunderstanding.
Didn't Taliban consider their fight against Afghan people a jihad?
Against Afghan people? Now are you denying the presence of warlords and gangs in every village and labeling all of these criminals under the heading of "Afghan people"? It is proven, documented(by the west even), testified by the ulema (both barelvi/deobandi) that before Taliban there was no law and order and once Taliban came to power, every illegal act was abolished or close to being abolished. All the warlords were fought by Taliban and their poppy fields were almost ALL eradicated by same Taliban! Now if you consider that fasad, be my guest.
Just to clarify, when Barelvi hazraat say that Prophet is/was made out of noor, they are not speaking metaphorically. They are talking about the real life substance that he was created out of.
There is a well known rivayat that became popular because of this very belief: the rivayat that Prophet did not have a shadow. Its just amazing the percentage of awaam that believes in it. This rivayat did not came out of any metaphorical belief but a real life belief.
no, there are more: Murjis, Kharjis, Jahmis, Mu'tazalitie, Kullabitis etc.
And the aqeedah of the Salaf, Atharis. I wonder how you forgot this. I guess they have taught you well to believe that aqeedah of the salaf is not haqq; so, it's not your fault.
Buzz off. I was talking about THE SUNNI TRADITION.
As for Athari, Athari is not a School of Speculative Theology nor a School of Law. It's an opinion of Imam Hanbal and some Sunni scholars regard it as a third aqidah along with Ashari and Mitrudi and some don't, and that Athari Aqidah has nothing to do with these so called Salafis' aqidah of today.
There is also a weak hadith that says that Allah created all the Prophets with noor.
Because these ahadith are weak we can’t be sure about them 100% nor we can make our aqidah based on these weak ahadith, but also we can’t call Brelwis wrong for this.
You are right! However, this is just another example of the opinion of the awaam that outshines the opinion of their own scholars. Being esoteric the Barelvis focus on such statements, but because their awaam are non-the-wiser they assume the meanings to be literal. Also, the high-street mawlvi will be likely to enforce these beliefs.
The actual scholars of Rai’ Barelvi do not share in this opinion.
The shadow or no shadow argument due to taqleed on the matter, people have erroneously reiterated the material given to them. The source of this idea is based on two narrations which are not supposed to be equated. To have no shadow does not mean that it is made of light. Rather it means that the object is transparent. So the logic in that deduction is not fool-proof.
It could also be argued that from other narrations that a cloud used to hover over the prophet Muhammad (SAW) to shield him from the sun, then it is obvious that he had no shadow, because the cloud was in the way !!!
The essence of Muhammad (SAW) is light, what that essence means now is another matter and should not really be debated.
Muslims are people of action too, what's wrong with jihad? Are you like those qadiani kuffar who reject jihad? It is part of Islam, you either accept or reject.
[/QUOTE]
Hey CP, watch out your poor knowledge and spreading hate, the concept
u have about JIHAD is a blood shed, which we are seeing these days and ISLAMIC teaching totaly reject it, we as a PAKISRANI getting shame/embrassment everywhere, Am requesting u do not spread wrong
meaning of Jihad.. This is you and few like u who are cause of all this happening in Pakistan. Apka Jihad apko Mubark ho but plz don kill more
my country men or other humenbeings...
And about Jihad I am going to start a new thread whenever I got a
freet time.... see you over there and come with full bundle of SH>>T u have,
I get u InshaAllah with help of Quran,Ahadees/Sunnah...
Hey CP, watch out your poor knowledge and spreading hate, the concept
u have about JIHAD is a blood shed, which we are seeing these days and ISLAMIC teaching totaly reject it, we as a PAKISRANI getting shame/embrassment everywhere, Am requesting u do not spread wrong
meaning of Jihad.. This is you and few like u who are cause of all this happening in Pakistan. Apka Jihad apko Mubark ho but plz don kill more
my country men or other humenbeings...
And about Jihad I am going to start a new thread whenever I got a
freet time.... see you over there and come with full bundle of SH>>T u have,
I get u InshaAllah with help of Quran,Ahadees/Sunnah...
NO FOR your JIHAD
Peace EyEsOnSkY
The Jihad you should have exercised here was self-restraint. We can talk about Jihad and even criticise others who "seem" to you to be advocating "unjust violence" but instead of asking them for their opinion, you send such language on the religion forum. I shall be looking forward to your thread. And please forgive me for being straightforward.
I avoid posting links and do cut and paste .. but just to let you know that your opinion is not true and Barelvi scholars do believe that he did not have a shadow (this is in urdu) ..
Psyah can’t read Urdu so allow me to summarize it…
The link states that Prophet(SAW) didn’t have a shadow and gives a hadith that says "Prophet(SAW) didn’t have a shadow, nor in sunlight nor in the light of a candle, because his own noor prevailed the light of sun, moon and candles/chiraghs.
(subhanallah)
Note: it didn’t say that because Prophet(SAW) wa made of noor instead it said “the noor coming from Prophet(SAW)'s body”.
Hey CP, watch out your poor knowledge and spreading hate, the concept
u have about JIHAD is a blood shed, which we are seeing these days and ISLAMIC teaching totaly reject it, we as a PAKISRANI getting shame/embrassment everywhere, Am requesting u do not spread wrong
meaning of Jihad.. This is you and few like u who are cause of all this happening in Pakistan. Apka Jihad apko Mubark ho but plz don kill more
my country men or other humenbeings...
And about Jihad I am going to start a new thread whenever I got a
freet time.... see you over there and come with full bundle of SH>>T u have,
I get u InshaAllah with help of Quran,Ahadees/Sunnah...
NO FOR your JIHAD
I would love to see you prove that Jihad is not part of Islam. That would make my day :D
did not have a shadow. Its just amazing the percentage of awaam that believes in it. This rivayat did not came out of any metaphorical belief but a real life belief.