Breastfeeding in public

[Deeba1234]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

@Paheli00

On a side note…how does this fit into what Islam teaches us and the cultural values we practice in regards to covering our bodies? Desi Muslim women reading this…..would you teach your daughters that its ok to uncover her breasts in public for this purpose if she wants to in the future? Would you be 100% comfortable if you were sitting next to your husband/father/FIL etc., and a woman started openly breastfeeding in the table next to you (or close by where she was clearly visible)?

I wouldn’t have a problem with my (future) daughter breastfeeding in public as long as she was discreet.. Likewise if I saw a woman breastfeeding near my hubby or father I wouldn’t have a problem with that - unless she literally had her whole boob out and it was completely exposed.. If a woman feels the need to uncovera breastslightly to breastfeed I don’t find that offensive, though we obviously all have different ideas of what’s considered “inappropriate”..

[kakee]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

@lafuriaroja

it’s interesting to hear different sides of this for sure. I am not against breastfeeding at all, I guess I personally feel slightly uncomfortable with seeing it, and being somewhat modest myself my initial comment was why don’t people just cover? Never having had children I didn’t know there were actual reasons you couldn’t cover, which was definitely interesting to hear.

That being said I feel uncomfortable when women wear tops where their boobs are hanging out as well. Interestingly enough midriff baring doesn’t bother me as much, not quite sure why.

Because your used to seeing Saris etc

[Deeba1234]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

@lafuriaroja

it’s interesting to hear different sides of this for sure. I am not against breastfeeding at all, I guess I personally feel slightly uncomfortable with seeing it, and being somewhat modest myself my initial comment was why don’t people just cover? Never having had children I didn’t know there were actual reasons you couldn’t cover, which was definitely interesting to hear.
**
That being said I feel uncomfortable when women wear tops where their boobs are hanging out as well. Interestingly enough midriff baring doesn’t bother me as much, not quite sure why**.

Conditioning.. There was a dupatta thread in F&B a while back where quite a few people said they wouldn’t feel comfortable not wearing it and found desi clothes “indecent” without yet most would happily wear a western shirt without a scarf.. Likewise some desis are perfectly fine with seeing a bare tummy in a saree but not bare legs or even sleeveless..

In general/all views another poster said something along the lines of “how would you feel if you saw your brother wearing shorts?” to try and illustrate the point of modesty at home but then again many (non desi) Muslims are used to seeing siblings in shorts.. It just depends on the environment you grew up in and what you’re used to.. Of course there’s a massive difference in religious terms between wearing shorts at home in front of your family and uncovering a breast in public though..

[kakee]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

Also, religious terms depend on the scholar and your interpretation of it. One thinks modesty is a Burqa another thinks being fully clothed you know it all is relative.

[lafuriaroja]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

@Deeba1234

Conditioning.. There was a dupatta thread in F&B a while back where quite a few people said they wouldn’t feel comfortable not wearing it and found desi clothes “indecent” without yet most would happily wear a western shirt without a scarf.. Likewise some desis are perfectly fine with seeing a bare tummy in a saree but not bare legs or even sleeveless..

In general/all views another poster said something along the lines of “how would you feel if you saw your brother wearing shorts?” to try and illustrate the point of modesty at home but then again many (non desi) Muslims are used to seeing siblings in shorts.. It just depends on the environment you grew up in and what you’re used to.. Of course there’s a massive difference in religious terms between wearing shorts at home in front of your family and uncovering a breast in public though..

yeh I guess that’s what it is. I mean very few people around me wore saris, and the few family members that did didn’t show their stomach’s at all, but growing up in the west obviously crop tops were everywhere. So were low cut tops but yeh probably have been conditioned to think that there is something more ‘sexual’ about boobs in general that makes me cringe a little when I see too much.

[nnabid]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

First of all I think it’s important to remember that breastfeeding is difficult and requires patience on the part of the mother, so kudos to anyone who is breastfeeding their child (as am I), it’s hard work. Next time you see somebody bf-ing, remember they went through/may still be going through a lot of difficulty to establish bf-ing with their child.

Secondly, I actually agree with some parts of what RV has said about the hayaa aspect and covering up. As Muslims, we are taught to cover our natural beauty, and breasts definitely come under that! Whilst I agree that breastfeeding is entirely natural, I also believe it’s important to maintain your hayaa when you’re out in public while breastfeeding. Example: I went to the Drs today, and as its a 30 min walk away, by the time I was done with my appointment I needed to feed baby as I knew she wouldn’t last a 30 min walk back home. I found a side corridor with some chairs, and turned a chair to face the wall, with my pushchair standing on the side where people walked past, and I sat and breastfed her there. You could clearly see I was in a position for feeding, but I also chose to be discrete and take my baby to the side, rather than whip it out in the waiting room where a lot of people were sitting. The same could be done if you’re out at a restaurant or cafe - just choose a quiet corner and turn your seat to face there. Somebody also mentioned feeding in the car which is what I do when I’ve got the car. I don’t advocate going to the toilets because the environment is just disgusting to be feeding your baby - you wouldn’t eat in a toilet so why feed your baby there? However, another idea if you’re out is to go to a shop, take a few clothes into the changing rooms and just sit and feed your baby until she’s done!

Even if your baby is not comfortable under a cover, you could still find ways of being discrete - cover your boob with the baby’s head during the latch. Once the baby is latched on it’s very easy to be discrete. Bottom line is, I support breastfeeding in public, but I believe it’s important that a woman is discrete about the way she goes about doing so.

[Lusi]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

@nnabid

First of all I think it’s important to remember that breastfeeding is difficult and requires patience on the part of the mother, so kudos to anyone who is breastfeeding their child (as am I), it’s hard work. Next time you see somebody bf-ing, remember they went through/may still be going through a lot of difficulty to establish bf-ing with their child.

Secondly, I actually agree with some parts of what RV has said about the hayaa aspect and covering up. As Muslims, we are taught to cover our natural beauty, and breasts definitely come under that! Whilst I agree that breastfeeding is entirely natural, I also believe it’s important to maintain your hayaa when you’re out in public while breastfeeding. Example: I went to the Drs today, and as its a 30 min walk away, by the time I was done with my appointment I needed to feed baby as I knew she wouldn’t last a 30 min walk back home. I found a side corridor with some chairs, and turned a chair to face the wall, with my pushchair standing on the side where people walked past, and I sat and breastfed her there. You could clearly see I was in a position for feeding, but I also chose to be discrete and take my baby to the side, rather than whip it out in the waiting room where a lot of people were sitting. The same could be done if you’re out at a restaurant or cafe - just choose a quiet corner and turn your seat to face there. Somebody also mentioned feeding in the car which is what I do when I’ve got the car. I don’t advocate going to the toilets because the environment is just disgusting to be feeding your baby - you wouldn’t eat in a toilet so why feed your baby there? However, another idea if you’re out is to go to a shop, take a few clothes into the changing rooms and just sit and feed your baby until she’s done!

Even if your baby is not comfortable under a cover, you could still find ways of being discrete - cover your boob with the baby’s head during the latch. Once the baby is latched on it’s very easy to be discrete. Bottom line is, I support breastfeeding in public, but I believe it’s important that a woman is discrete about the way she goes about doing so.

This!

Normally I carry a bottle with me. However, there have been times when I did not have a bottle and had to bf. I totally agree with nnabid that it is very easy to be discrete.

[Reha]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

I think I’d value my own privacy too much to bf in public…I’d want to find a discrete spot where I could easily take care of baby without having to worry about who’s looking and how.

[hareem01]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

I actually find bf in public quite normal…may be because I’m a woman and a mother.

[hareem01]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

@kakee

I know in NYC it’s legal to show the top half your body.

In Australia, you are legally allowed to breastfeed and I don’t particularly see why anyone else should judge a mother for doing what’s natural for her. If she doesn’t have a problem with it. Why do you?

Personally, I don’t know what I would do, but I wouldn’t be that happy if I did it and a friend of mine was going “oh god, a boob D:” as if you’ve never seen one before.

That being said Australia (and other European countries) are much more flexible about nudity. We have nude beaches etc. Australia unlike America or Asia doesn’t have that much stigma to people being naked. Also, as breastfeeding is natural process. There isn’t much stigma attached to it… If you don’t like seeing breasts. Do you just not watch TV etc too? I mean Titanic had breasts too!

Although, some tourist do find it weird when they see top half naked girls at the beach…

Those who remove themselves from a busy area do it because that’s what makes THEM comfortable. Not what makes YOU comfortable.

Why I’m Glad Someone Told Me To Stop Breastfeeding In Public*|*Amber Hinds
Breastfeeding in Public - How to Breastfeed - Huggies.com.au
Why I’m glad I was told to stop breastfeeding in public - Kidspot

Also, how many of you are uncomfortable with seeing a shirtless man in public?

UK law also allows women to breast feed their babies in public. In Pakistan, specially in rural areas, it’s a common sight to see a mom bf.

[pkgrl000]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

This is sad. I personally always use a cover but am annoyed when people make a big deal out of these things. The arguments you make for covering are the same arguments Arabs make for burqa and covering your face. Why stop at asking a security guard to accompany you out of the library? Why not just ban girls from public education? After all, wouldn’t you do everything in your power to protect your modesty?

1. Pumping is painful, time-consuming, and a hassle to always have a bottle of milk around which can go bad if not kept cold and then go bad if not used within 4 hrs of being out and about. This means I can’t have a full day out with my family so as to make sure I have a pumped bottle on hand.

2. Going out to feed in a car is great during summer but what about when there is 10ft of snow outside? A mother shouldn’t have to bundle up herself, her baby, walk out on ice back to the car in a snowy parking lot, all so that you can avoid having to look the other direction. Same with going to a smelly bathroom etc. and going to the back room with a restaurant manager means the mother misses out on family conversation, time with her husband, etc which was probably the point of her meal.

@Paheli00

Ah no. My point was that since we know that there are perverts/creeps etc. in our society…because common sense tells us that people don’t always do what’s “right” or what they “should”…we take many steps to protect ourselves and do everything possible in our power to reduce the chances of becoming a victim. Women in Pakistan don’t usually cover up and generally make sure they don’t do out with a male family member…why is that?

Back when I was in grad school, around exam time I would stay at the library until midnight. If there was a group of girls left at that time and we were talking together…and by group I mean at least like 5 or more…we would walk together to the parking lot. If I was alone, I would ask the security guard to walk with me. Did I think I deserved being assaulted/raped by walking alone? No. Does that mean I shouldn’t do everything in power to keep myself safe? After all…just like the guy taking the picture…once I’ve been assaulted/raped…what’s the point in discussing whether I deserved it or not? The damage is done. Heck why do we tell women not to accept drinks from people they don’t know in bars and clubs? The list goes on and on.

Yea I’m not a parent either which is why I asked the question about pumping earlier. I’m simply sharing my thoughts from the other side…the side that could be sitting at a restaurant or sitting next to my father at an airport when all of a sudden I see someone’s boob pop out (nipple and all) to breastfeed (ok and maybe part of me loves playing the devil’s advocate too). :halo:

[Paheli00]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

@nnabid

Even if your baby is not comfortable under a cover, you could still find ways of being discrete - cover your boob with the baby’s head during the latch. Once the baby is latched on it’s very easy to be discrete. Bottom line is, I support breastfeeding in public, but I believe it’s important that a woman is discrete about the way she goes about doing so.

^ This! No one is telling women to stop breastfeeding in public. But its not impossible or difficult to do it discretely.

@pkgrl000

I personally always use a cover but am annoyed when people make a big deal out of these things.

You know what I think is funny? Those of you here who don’t see anything wrong with a women breastfeeding in public without using a cover or being discrete…when it comes to YOU feeding your baby, you find a way to be discrete or use a cover. Seriously…is there ANY woman here who doesn’t use a cover or discretion when exposing her breasts in public?

As for the point on 10 ft. of snow…well not every city has that as an issue does it? I’m in Texas and I assure you that snow is not a problem here. And I never suggested women go inside a bathroom. Whether it’s using a cloth cover, finding a private area by asking a manager at whatever location you’re in, going to the car, find a quite/isolated area…whatever… the point is that these women do have options to breastfeed in a discrete manner. The options may be not “perfect” but they are reasonable. If women CHOOSE not to take a reasonable option to be discrete or cover up…that’s fine. But let’s not pretend that women don’t have any other choices and are forced to expose their breasts to everyone around them.

[redvelvet]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

I don’t really care what the law of any country (UK or otherwise) allows in this regard. Does this same law that allows public breastfeeding also prevent lewd comments or keep perverts at bay? Nope, it doesn’t. There are ways to keep the breastfeeding more discreet or decent in a public setting. And for Muslim women, Allah’s commandments and the Prophet SAW’s guidance are more in accordance with the fitrah of both genders and takes into account the risks/dangers for both genders. And breastfeeding which bares boobage makes even non-Muslims uncomfortable. There may be some people who feel totally comfortable with it, but they are not the rule nor do I think they comprise the majority. Thankfully, even in the times we’re currently living in, there is still some amount of hayaa left to where most people will feel uneasy about this. In hadith it is said that the time will come where people will have sex in public. I wonder how far we are from that time when something like this will become so prevalent. People/society has already become immune to so much.

[redvelvet]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

@kakee

Also, religious terms depend on the scholar and your interpretation of it. One thinks modesty is a Burqa another thinks being fully clothed you know it all is relative.

That’s a weak argument and I’ll explain why. The two scholars might differ in their opinions as to whether wearing a burqa is necessary or not, however BOTH scholars will AGREE that being fully covered is better than being partially or scantily clad, that looser clothing is better than form-fitting, and in keeping with the subject of the thread…BOTH scholars will agree that public breastfeeding especially where the breast can be seen is prohibited. So, not the most effective counter argument cuz it still doesn’t leave any wiggle room for conspicuous public nursing.

I also don’t agree with the argument that “Educate the perverts not to be perverts instead of telling the women not to wear this and that.” Don’t depend on the driver to slam his brake in the nick of time, you also have the responsibility to look both ways before crossing. This may not be the best analogy, but you will find that it applies to the most mundane of life’s tasks. We shouldn’t rely solely on the other person for our security and well-being, we have to take our own precautions as well. ***And NO, this does not mean that abuse of any form toward women is justified. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems that people are more “okay” with a dress code in a setting like a school. Dress codes in schools…esp a high school…are there because they take into account things like safety and the impact scant dressing has on not just students of the opposite gender but on fellow females as well. In such a setting, you won’t find too much rebellion from the adults…the students are another matter. But it seems that as we exit the the academic and professional environments, it creates quite a hopplah if females are advised to dress decently or to dress in a way that helps maintains their respect and security.

[Sasha21]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

When I was about 7-8 years, was at the hospital with my mom and we were in the ladies waiting area (in Middle East a lot of the hospitals have seperate waiting areas), so anyway there was this lady fully covered, abaya nikaab, the works. Then suddenly she whips out we boob over the top of her abaya (as in from the neckline) and starts feeding her baby. And she had a headscarf on top, that she could have easily postioned to where it was covering her but not the baby. But she fed that baby like that the whole time. Now as a kid I think that was the first time I’d ever seen a boob so I was embarrassed (Because ofcourse I knew ur supposed to cover urself). So ofcourse I looked and then looked away the whole time cuz I didn’t want to stare or whatever. But there were other kids there, boys, or in fact even girls, who were young enough not to know to look away. But that lady didn’t care, the kids were like standing there and just staring at her, cuz ofcourse it was a spectacle for them, I don’t remember if their moms asked them to stop staring or not but anyway, I just found it an odd sight. And Islam doesn’t allow to uncover ur awra in front of other women too, unless it is really needed. So I found it weird that the lady didn’t care to be discrete at all. The least she could do was move to a corner of the waiting room, or face the wall etc. Anyway I’m all up for public breastfeeding but with discretion.

[redvelvet]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

^ And kids can get some strange ideas which they might even put into practice.

[hareem01]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

@redvelvet

That’s a weak argument and I’ll explain why. The two scholars might differ in their opinions as to whether wearing a burqa is necessary or not, however BOTH scholars will AGREE that being fully covered is better than being partially or scantily clad, that looser clothing is better than form-fitting, and in keeping with the subject of the thread…BOTH scholars will agree that public breastfeeding especially where the breast can be seen is prohibited. So, not the most effective counter argument cuz it still doesn’t leave any wiggle room for conspicuous public nursing.

I also don’t agree with the argument that “Educate the perverts not to be perverts instead of telling the women not to wear this and that.” Don’t depend on the driver to slam his brake in the nick of time, you also have the responsibility to look both ways before crossing. This may not be the best analogy, but you will find that it applies to the most mundane of life’s tasks. We shouldn’t rely solely on the other person for our security and well-being, we have to take our own precautions as well. ***And NO, this does not mean that abuse of any form toward women is justified. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems that people are more “okay” with a dress code in a setting like a school. Dress codes in schools…esp a high school…are there because they take into account things like safety and the impact scant dressing has on not just students of the opposite gender but on fellow females as well. In such a setting, you won’t find too much rebellion from the adults…the students are another matter. But it seems that as we exit the the academic and professional environments, it creates quite a hopplah if females are advised to dress decently or to dress in a way that helps maintains their respect and security.

Agree with you but call me weird or whatever I actually don’t find bfing in public indecent or immoral (as KKF called it an immoral act). May be because I was raised in a culture where it was okay to do so and no one considered it as a sexually appealing act. I wouldn’t do it for religious reasons obviously…but I don’t see it as a disgusting act for those who choose to bf in public.

[redvelvet]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

@hareem01

Agree with you but call me weird or whatever I actually don’t find bfing in public indecent or immoral (as KKF called it an immoral act). May be because I was raised in a culture where it was okay to do so and no one considered it as a sexually appealing act. I wouldn’t do it for religious reasons obviously…but I don’t see it as a disgusting act for those who choose to bf in public.

The act itself is not immoral or indecent. It becomes indecent when the awra is openly on display.

[Paheli00]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

@hareem01

I wouldn’t do it for religious reasons obviously…but I don’t see it as a disgusting act for those who choose to bf in public.

It’s not disgusting…just inappropriate. And this being a desi Muslim forum (for the most part)…this definitely doesn’t mesh well with Islamic values/teachings of modesty.

@redvelvet

The act itself is not immoral or indecent. It becomes indecent when the awra is openly on display.

:k:

[hareem01]

Re: Breastfeeding in public

I can clearly see why it would be labelled as “immodest” but “immoral”? I can’t quite get my head around it.