Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"'

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

If he dictated the selection committee was it faults of Innzi or selection committee? As captain he performed reasonable with quality of players he had in the team. Though that does not mean that he did as much as could have got done.

Again figures shows that with players mostly mediocre, Pakistan during last three to four years was amongst top two, three teams in the world. That does not show that his leadership had no inspirational quality.

Well, it is possible that your assessment is right. But then, if it is right and still Pakistan performance with mediocre players was not that bad, it only shows that even a player with little inspirational quality, stubborn and immature attitude could do good, if that player has good performance that makes other players respect him, not as just captain, but as player.

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

Bhai, mazaakan Kaha tha, chalayain yea missaal nahi latay hain, galtee hou gaee :). Actually, galtie say misaal bhie galaat likie thee: Asaal misaal yea hay kay:

Kanna andhoon may kanoon ka sardaar hotaa hay .:) ..Waisay yea tou Allah ka farman bhie hay kay, jaisay loog waisa Ameer. :)

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

That was mainly due to our home test wins against England and India. :) The only away test series that Pakistan won under Inzi was their 1-0 win in a 2-Test series in SLA in 2006. **We lost badly in the three test series that mattered - **0-3 in Australia in 2004 (That said Inzi missed the last two tests and Yousuf took over as captain. Can't really blame him as most captains have failed in Australia since 1999), 0-3 (technically 0-2, Pakistan had too many injured players and were seriously depleted by the absence of Actor and Asif) in England in 2006 and 1-2 in SA this year

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

In England I believe that Pakistan should have won the match they forfeited because of ball tampering. If Pakistan had won the game, Pakistan would have gone up on 2nd place in test playing country ranking table (especially after England made a mess in Australia).

But I believe that that forfeited match did serve a purpose. It helped in wiping out some black tarnish of ball tempering from Pakistan face. If Pakistan would have been loosing the match and then walked out, many would have thought that Pakistan walked out because they were loosing the match. For many, accusation by Pakistan that umpire making Pakistan victim of ball tampering wrongly, and are bias, would have become excuse by Pakistan of running away from a loosing match.

Pakistan also got successful LBW decision against Mr Hair. So, one can say that Pakistan achieved something and lost a match.

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

Pakistan in past four years never had good and complete Test team. We always had problems with our openers and pace attack. They were either out because of their bad performances or injuries. If you look from Test matches played from Australia to South Africa, you will see the same problem with Pakistani team, the only time we had our pace attack for entire series was during home series against England and India.

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

^^
Then isn’t it a surprise that after all those problems, still Pakistan kept climbing under Inzzi on ranking table?

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

All that time he had our back. :)

Series against India in India; Test and ODI. One of the best tours ever.

Series against West Indies; Test and ODI.

2nd Test against South Africa.

After him, it was Yousuf, Younis, Kaneria and Akhtar who made it possible for us to win Test matches. Asif and Gul came a bit late, but made their mark.

This is the only reason I am for Yousuf and Akhtar for captains. I doubt Shoaib Malik can hold the team together and perform at the same time.

Re: Breaking News…Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to “The Nation”

Perform at the same time:confused:? Perform what? :hmmm:You mean, perfrom how to disapoint Pakistani cricket fans?

You know what, I am big fan of Shoaib Malik … welll … a bit disapointed though :hoonh:

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

saleem jee the correct misaal is:

Undhoon mein kana raja :D

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

You are absolutely right. Hamarie memory lane thorie old hou gayee hay, should have used the phrase you just mentioned. That is what I wanted to say :D

I meant, however kana Inzamma was, he was Raja of not Australian team or Sri Lankan team. He was Raja of Andhee Pakistani team, team that is mostly made up from players that are in the team on basis of nepotism, Personal like/dislike, and safarish. However sad, but that is truth of Pakistani team.

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

I think he's a great choice!

An average of 38 in tests isn't bad at all. An Average of 33 in ODI's is 2 runs better than Younis Khan.

The poster that mentioned his 9 against Ireland and 21 (?) against Zim conveniently "forgot" his 60 odd against the West Indies.

Hopefully with more responsibilty he will blosssom.

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

if Malik is actually made the captain, it can end up as MAKE or BREAK for him. Yeh "appointing young captain like Smith" wali theory Pak mein naehi kamayaab hoo suktee. As much as i like Malik, i think senior players will make life difficult for him.

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

Don’t think that I do not like Shoaib Malik. Actually, amongst players Pakistan have, I like him in the team. Problem is that, should I think on basis of what I like and what I dislike, or on basis player’s performance, and what my conscious says? Hence, I am just putting down what I believe the player performances are and what it should be.

Let seriously look at the performance of Shoaib Malik and compare it with some others comparable all-rounder from Pakistan:

Shoaib Malik:
Test batting performance: Ave: 37.6 … 1 hundred, 5 fifties in 29 innings … 8 catches in 18 matches.
Test bowling performance: Ave 63 runs per wicket …13 wkts in 18 matches.

One day batting performance: Ave: 33.5 … 5 hundreds… 21 fifties … 48 catches in 137 innings … SR 77 per 100 balls.
One day bowling performance: Ave 34.5 runs per wicket … 104 wkts in 137 matches. Eco Rate: 4.48

Shahid Afridi:
Test batting performance: Ave: 37.4 … 5 hundred, 8 fifties in 46 innings …8 catches in 18 matches.
Test bowling performance: Ave 34.89 runs per wicket …47 wkts in 26 matches.

One day batting performance: Ave: 23.12 … 4 hundreds… 27 fifties … 83 catches in 238 innings … SR 108.69 per 100 balls.
One day bowling performance: Ave 35.38 runs per wicket … 201 wkts in 238 matches. Eco rate: 4.61

Abdul Razzak:
Test batting performance: Ave: 28.61 … 3 hundred …. 7 fifties …15 catches in 46 matches.
Test bowling performance: Ave 36.94 runs per wicket …100 wkts in 46 matches.

One day batting performance: Ave: 30.06 … 2 hundreds… 22 fifties … 30 catches in 229 Matches … SR 80.03 per 100 balls.
One day bowling performance: Ave 31.04 runs per wicket … 245 wkts in 229 matches. Eco Rate: 4.68

   **Now justify Shoaib Malik over Shahid Afridi and Abdul Razzak?** First of all, determine what is their purpose in test or one day international? 

Shoaib Malik: does not have mentionable performance as test bowler. Thus his test place should depend entirely on batting performance. Is he good to be a test batsman? 1 century and 5 fifties in 29 innings with an average of 37.6, is that type of batsman we need to represent Pakistan?

Shahid Afridi deserve a place much more then Shoaib Malik. He has similar average of around 37.4 as Shoaib Malik. But have 5 centuries and 8 fifties in 46 innings. When he has 1 century every 9 inning, Shoaib gets 1 century every 29 innings (well, he only made one century till now). Shahid Afradi strike rate is also much better.

On top of that, Shahid Afradi also have reasonable test bowling average. He took 47 wickets in 26 matches at 34.89 runs per wicket, compared to shoaib 13 wickets in 18 matches at 63 runs per wicket.

Thus in test, Shahid has much better performance then Shoaib. Well, Shahid performance is all rounder performance, whereas Shoaib as batsman could not justify his place in test team.

Abdul Razzak: If one sees Abdul Razzak performance as all rounder, that i*s also much better then shoaib. As Razzak performance is of all round nature, whereas Shoaib is not.* Razzak bowling performance is better then even Shahid Afridi.**

 **In one day, again with average of 33.5 and strike rate of 77, Shoaib lacks that SR an all rounder should have** (person with an average much below 40) and could not justify his place as bowler, though his bowling performance is slightly better.

Shahid Afridi figures shows all round performance and with strike rate of 108.9 for Shahid Afridi and 80 for Razzak, they could claim to be pitch hitter at lower end of batting line up in one day international.

Shoaib Malik one day average is better then Shahid and Razzak, but SR is too low. All three of them are not specialist batsman, so they have to be pitch hitter. Shoaib is not as SR of below 80 should be for specialist batsmen that have averages near to 40 to justify their place in one day international.

   For instance one day average of specialist batsman that deserve to be in team (guaranteed place):

Inzammam average 39.53 … 10 centuries and 83 fifties in 348 innings, have SR 74.19

M Yousuf average 41.81 … 12 centuries and 52 fifties in 220 innings, have SR 74.2

Yasir Hameed average 39.12 … 3 centuries and 11 fifties in 50 innings, have SR 67.52

As for Younus Khan: I do not think that he deserves to be in one day side.
Just look at his performance:
Younus Khan average 31.15 … 2 centuries and 26 fifties in 146 innings, have SR 73.78

I believe that Pakistan should look for proper one day specialist players that can have average of around 40 and SR of around 75.

Well, Pakistan needs 5 specialist players that have averages of around 40 and SR of around 75.
Then Pakistan needs one wicket keeper that has average of around 35 to 40 with SR of around 75 (as specialist batsman).

Further, Pakistan needs another 2 all rounder that have average of around 30 but SR of over 80 and have bowling average of around 30 with Eco Rate around 4.5.
Then Pakistan needs 3 specialist bowlers that have average of around 15 but SR of over 80 and have bowling average of around 25 with Eco rate of less then 4.

I believe that if people in Pakistan stop nepotism, do not select team players on personal likes/dislikes and Safarish is not entertained at all, then Pakistan can have such composition.

Pakistan also needs separate team for Test and One day, with two different Captains. Well, that means people like Shoaib Malik have to improve their performance, else they have to go as soon as suitable replacement is found.

Though in present situation, when Inzamma is out, Younus Khan is out (well, he does not deserve to be in one day team anyhow), Mohammad Yousuf movement in field seems movement of lethargic, Shoaib Akhtar has severe behaviour problems, we do not have many good players deserving permanent place in the team. Probably in this situation, Shoaib Malik could keep his one day position and could even lead one day team (not test team but only in one day team).

But that should be temporary unless Shoaib Malik improves a lot in his batting during next few months. That I am saying because, if Inzamam and Yousuf is out, next player could be Yasir Hameed, but since he has not given chance in team since some time, has less experience, Shoaib Malik remains one choice, not as all rounder but as batsman.

Though Yasir Hameed, if he keeps giving reasonable performance, should have preference over Shoaib Malik. Same is true about Mohammad Asif and Shabbir Ahmed. Good performance but lack of experience.

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

You are still looking at averages. You are not going to get it. let it go.

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

Sa1eem bhai by your logic most teams have the wrong captains. Sachin should captain India, Kallis should captain Saffies, Bond for the Kiwis, KP for England, Murali for Srilanka & Yousaf for Pakistan. I guess Ponting is the only wise choice in the cricketing world.

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

hmmm well, yea tou sirf aap hee samajh saktay hain .. ham saab tou uss secret say na-bahra hain jo aap jaantay hain :) .. I wont get it what you can or anyone else can, so let go :) .. Lagtaa hay, we are ignorant of cricket and what it means, so should let it go :)

But then I beleive that this is the attitude that (you won't understand) took the cricket in Pakistan to such low ebb. Don't worry, I am not writing anything from charsi baara .. I am quoting all what I am saying.

You prove it that I have quoted anything wrong or said anything wrong, then that would be different matter. Else, accept what I wrote make some sense. Think on it then decide.

If you cannot think, leave it on those that can. :D Do not tell me that to leave it, tell me with argument what I wrote is wrong :)

Re: Breaking News…Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to “The Nation”

Now Jang reporting Shoaib Malik as captain and Mohammad Asif as Vice Captain plus Younis retiring from ODI’s and Yousaf getting dropped from the ODI’s on fitness and fielding grounds.

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

Not really. What I wrote is that, if a person is made Captain, at least that person should find his place in team on merit, and on permanent basis, not because that person is Captain. For him to deserve a place in test team as batsman, he should have test average of over 40 runs per inning. If he is bowler, he should have bowling average of below 25 per wicket.

That is all what I wrote. Other thing is that, usually fast bowler is not made Captain because fast bowler is prone to injury. So, if bowler is captain, normally they are spinners or medium pacer. But fast bowler could become Captain.

Anyhow, as long as a player test average is good enough (above 40) and he has quality of a leader, make that person Captain by all means. Reason for average above 40 is that, with such average, a person should qualify to be in team as good batsman, on merit.

Nevertheless, what you wrote is not true: Here are figures of world team Captains.

India: Best batsman of Indian team is Dravid. His test average is 57.33 and one day average is 40.01.

In comparison Sachin Tendulkar test average is 54.70 and one day average is 44.05.

Even though if Dravid average was lower then Tendulkar, still that is Ok, as even then, he deserve to be in Indian team on merit, qualifying as world class good batsman with test average of over 40. So Dravid deserve to be in team, regardless of he is Captain or not.

South Africa: G Smith test average is 47.08 and one day average is 38.79. Smith has second highest test average in SA side. Thus he is in team on his merit and deserves to be player in SA test team as well as one day team.

New Zealand: Fleming has test average of 39.64, highest amongst all New Zealand test players and deserves to be in the team on merit with average of around 40. His one day average is also not too bad, though NZ having Captain for both team same, he is captain of One day too. Else the other person could be Astle or Taylor.

As for Bond, he also deserves to be Captain, but as fast bowler, he does get injured and thus could not play cricket on stretch. Hence, NZ have one of their leading batsmen as Captain.

Sri Lanka**: **Jayawardene has batting average of 48.37. He has second highest average in SL side (ealier last year, his test average was highest). He is fourth highest world run scorer (Lara 400, Langer 380, Lara 375, and then Jayawardene 374). He has highest individual run score in South Asia. He deserves to be in any world team on merit, not because he is Captain.

**West Indies: **Lara with test average of 53.17 leads West Indies in batting average. Nevertheless, he also deserves a place in the ream on his performance. Has average of much over 40. He has highest test score ever of 400 runs. He also have third highest score of 375 runs.

England: MP Vaughan with test average of 42.94 (previously Strauss with test average of 43.09) are well qualified to find their place in the team. Both of them do not depend on them being in the team because they are Captain. They deserve a place as Batsmen in the team with averages of over 40.

Thrope was once captain, his test average is 44.66. The only person above all in test average is Pietersen (49.69). Else most English Batsman test average is hovering around 43 to 45.

The thing what I wrote and wanted to get noticed was that, when selecting a Captain, country should see that the player to be Captain has such performance that their place in the team is permanent and they deserve it. That means, for a batsman, they should have test average of over 40. As for Shoaib Malik, his batting average is not such that he deserves a permanent place in test team as batsman. His test bowling average is too low to be considered for test place.

I did not write that they should have highest average in the team. If I believed that, I would have written that Yousuf with test average of 56 deserve to be Captain more then Inzammam with test average of 50.64, but I did not write that.

Nevertheless, good luck to Shoiab Malik if he got selected as Captain. It is not new in Pakistan. People do not deserve but are there in team.

Like Ramaiz Raja (1984-1997) with test average of 31.83 (2 centuries and 22 fifties in 94 inning, HS 122) was playing as Pakistani opening batsman in test team, when he did not deserved any place in test team. As Shoaib Mohammad (1983-1995), another opener with test average of 44.34 (7 centuries and 13 fifties in 68 innings, HS 203) was getting dropped all the time just to fit Ramaiz Raja as opener. This is Pakistan, where merit means 'me right'.

The difference in performance is amazing, but then Ramaiz Raja b/o Wasim Raja had bigger jack then Shoaib Mohammad s/o Hanif Mohammad. Throughout Pakistan cricket management kept crying for openers, still ignored merit, because they had their munda (Ramiz Raja) for the opener.

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

Very well put togather but surprisingly you gave the average for both tests as well as ODI's for all the batsmen except for Vaughan. If I recall correctly he averages in the low 20's and does not warrant a place in the side. He is in the team only cause he is the captain otherwise would be replaced in an instant if he was an ordinary member of the side.

While I do agree Jayawardene is a world class batsman but scoring a 374 doesnt make him better then his team mates, his consistency does. Sehwag is the only tripple centurion in India that doesnt mean he is a better batsman than Sachin or Dravid.

Re: Breaking News....Shoaib Malik Gets Pakistan Captaincy according to "The Nation"

Well, England cricket management, that includes captaincy, is same for test and one day. The selection of Captain does not take into account one day performance. All get selected on Test cricket performance. That is true amongst all Test playing countries.

The day England would decide two teams for two different types of game; I believe Vaughan (ODI average of 26.56) would even lose his place in one day international. Nevertheless, lot of comments are made on his one day performance and he get criticised a lot because of that, low ODI average and no century in 81 ODI innings.

I used test averages, as in cricket world it is believed that test averages shows real capability of a player. That is why Younis Khan was having a place in Pakistan ODI squad, though his ODI performance is disgusting.

When Younis Khan was offered Captaincy of Pakistan team, it would have been on his test performance, though he would have become Captain for both Test and ODI team, regardless of his ODI bad performance.

As for Jayawardene, forget his 374, he has second highest test average in SL team. Only Sangakkara has higher average than him. With average of above 48, who could doubt his ability as quality test playing batsman?