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*Originally posted by ravage: *
unless you can explain why your reasoning applies to movies and not nudist camps i dont think you really have a point.
nevertheless, from a religious perspective, which was what you were addressing, things do have inherent good and bad value in addition to what your intention is when doing them.
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if you have "pre marital relations" i.e. a gf does that equate to frequenting nudist camps bhai merai.
Destinee i do get what you are trying to say, but certain situations are full of risk. for example, sure you can go to a bar and not get drunk but its better to not go to a bar in the first place. i mean why put urself in a situation which is wraught with risks.
we are talking abt FRIENDS. a FRIEND is someone whom you're very close to and very free with. i don't think that you can just be that with a member of the opposite gender without having to worry abt the fact that will i or that person end up liking each other.
sure, your intention might be totally platonic but its very natural that maybe the other person falls for you. there's nothing morally wrong with liking someone with the intention of wanting to marry them but then when you dont like them they could get over it easily or it could be very painful for them, so to avoid this whole fiasco, i think its better to be safe than sorry from before.
and as you said, maybe it is about upbringing as well. in pakistan we are pretty much raised to believe that girls and guys cannot be friends, atleast most of my cousins, friends and me have been raised in such a mahol. yes i did interact with guys in my family, neighborhood, school and college and do now too in office and try to be nice/polite etc but there are limits, and everyone sets their own limits according to their own comfort zones, which is completely fine. i do share stuff with them, we even joke around or share laughs sometimes but i wouldnt call them my FRIENDS.
im not saying ive been a goody two shoes all the time or never had a negative experience, maybe i have and maybe thats what has shaped my opinion?
like think about it, after you're married how would you feel if your significant other had "FRIENDS" from the opposite gender with whom (s)he went on one on one lunches or dinners or outings? if they are just "FRIENDS" then its okay right and you shouldnt have a problem, just like they used to socialise before marriage they socialise after marriage too. and after all this is the least level of interaction with a friend right? but im sure 99% of us would not like that. why? b/c we know that such "friendships" are never 100% platonic.
its not about having a ghatiya zehenyat or whatever. its about being honest and realistic with yourself and acknowledging the truth without being too idealistic or setting impossible standards. Allah swt made us a certain way, human psychology and biology has been designed in certain ways, and 1% of people might be GOOD enough to overcome those weaknesses/limitations but 99% people are not so good and are prone to making mistakes and not having complete self control, thus its best to keep yourself out of situations which are risky not jus for your own benefit but also for the benefit of the other person involved.
as for the example of the Prophet (saw), i dont know of a single female sahabi, do u?
khair...all this said, im not saying, dont interact at all, be rude etc. im not saying that. im jus saying you cant be FRIENDS but ofcourse you can have a certain level of interaction and keep it as minimum as possible. i mean thats the ideal thing to do in today's world imo.
:)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by hiccup: *
if you have "pre marital relations" i.e. a gf does that equate to frequenting nudist camps bhai merai.
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nahi she was reasoning by analogy, which is ok, but then for that reasoning to be valid it should hold across examples.
:o who said i was talking about me 
assumptions can be very dangerous sadzz kaki :nono:
hahaha sorries i fell in the trap haha
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
unless you can explain why your reasoning applies to movies and not nudist camps i dont think you really have a point.
nevertheless, from a religious perspective, which was what you were addressing, things do have inherent good and bad value in addition to what your intention is when doing them.
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Dude, as I said, the thing about movies was JUST an example.
Irem. Then it all sums up to having certain limits. End of the story. But I still can't agree that they can't be friends.
yeah u can stay friends, unless dosti ke thi to become more than friends, ghustakh akhiyan khithai ja larrgeyaaan
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*Originally posted by Destinee: *
Dude, as I said, the thing about movies was JUST an example.
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your point is diluted then. because your principle arguably makes sense in movies and doesnt in other instances, you cant claim its a general principle. and thus there is no basis for applying it to girl boy friendships.
who wants to be my bf
:-/ but i just showed that the principle didnt apply in general..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
your point is diluted then. because your principle arguably makes sense in movies and doesnt in other instances, you cant claim its a general principle. and thus there is no basis for applying it to girl boy friendships.
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Everyone has their own opinions and have their own examples..what may work for you may not work for them...by the way this thread isn't about bashing people's opinions... I don't know if ur a lawyer but u would make a damn good one by all the posts I have read of urs.
:) not bashing anything, i just like to be thorough in arguments.
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*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
The restraints aren't unrealistic. All you need to do is want to follow them and you can any time you wish.
Alternatively, you have the free will to go beyond the limit, but you're aware that there may be consequences later on... it's not a risk-free proposition.
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well ofcourse u can follow but thats not the issue. the problem is that those limits are not practical or realistic. Using ur analogy, it is just like having a speed limit of 20 on a highway, now ofcourse u can always follow but does it make sense?
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*Originally posted by irem: *
ofcourse they can be followed...just coz you and i dont doesnt mean they cant be. my point is Islam is a perfect religion and has given us these rules...but who among us is a perfect Muslim? but atleast we should keep these rules in mind and try to adhere to them as much as possible...i mean, atleast we should know what is right and what is wrong and even if we don't follow the rules we should have enough honesty to atleast admit our faults and acknowledge what the correct path is...
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thats my point..why have rules that nobody can practically follow? those rules then just become too idealistic and are only applicable in a perfect world.
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*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
hahaha sorries i fell in the trap haha
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awww its ok we all make mistakes. lakin next time bacho...... :p
Why dont you watch a movie HUM TUM you will get the answer.
^ mate wat happens in movies doesn't always happen in real life.