Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
^ and where do you think this drug smuggling is going towards these days? why isn't there 'pressure' now specially when they have all their military on ground?
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
LOL...all accounts have Pakistan degenerating into more chaos...at least Karachi.
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
Why are you there?
Are you suggesting that a prerequisite for a good social society is a steady flow of booze?
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
I think wines esp. red wines are good for health if drunk within limits! The west has higher average age than the muslim world!
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
Well as far as I know, the drugs are still coming into Pakistan and still getting smuggled out into foreign markets.
From what I know, these drugs are smuggled in from Afghanistan and some of it is even grown in FATA. Pakistan has a huge drug problem which isnt acknowledged by the authorities because they like to close their eyes to any real problems faced by the country.
Why they dont stop this now?
I guess its because Karzai is a puppet on strings with no real power outside his own office, and most of the country is out of control…
The US also far more interested in whats going on in Iraq to worry about whats going on in Afghanistan… I also dont think they are willing to rock the boat, because forcing people to stop producing poppy would turn people who are already tired of the useless Karzai govt particulalry in the Pashtun south, would embitter them even more considering poopy is a main source of income.
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
A free society where people are free (within limits) to screw up or rise up is a country we should all aspire for… Im not for free liquor in pakistan per say, but the right to drink if you feel like it shouldnt be an issue. Besides, banning things is useless..
The key is to regulate… Alchol will never stop flowing, but taxing it can have many benefits.
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
Taxing drugs...prostiituion...or the selling your kids...yeah, they all may have 'benifits'.
A free society is not free 'within limits'. The question is where are the limits drawn...the truth is, it's arbitrary by any objective measure. In korea people eat dogs...in America, that's consiered barbaric.
Many nations, some which are abysmal failures and others which are not, allow alcohol. That's not relevant...what is relevant is how the legalization of alcohol plays to Pakistanis at large.
If people want to drink...then let them do within the confines of their four walls. How they get their fix is their problem. The instance they display drunk behavior in public, then all bets are off.
I disagree about banning things...it can indeed work if it's done right. Yes, it won't be 100% effective...but then so what?
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
Wrong. In all the things you have mentioned a third party is getting involved or hurt in the process, so cannot really compare it to alcohol consumtion.
Any way if somebody wants to drink, it's his choice. By banning you impose your choice on him. Which to me is not right.
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
Oh, I think a very strong case could be made that people aren't really getting hurt...or that by drinking (which often is not moderated) is just as harmful.
Ask a victim of a drunk driver if he/she god "hurt" as a result of the driver's drinking...
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Any way if somebody wants to drink, it's his choice. By banning you impose your choice on him. Which to me is not right.
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It is the role of the state to impose. By allowing the consumption of alcohol in the public, you are in fact imposing your drinking on those who sincerely believe that it should NOT be consumed by anyone...yes yes, you're not forcing them to drink...but it is an imposition nonetheless.
Forcing someone to do something is not quite the same as forcing them NOT to do something. Just ask the suicidal...or those who want to smoke pot. Yes, not the same, but the point is they may not be harming anyone else, but stopping them certainly isn't harming them.
In general I agree with you, but not on drinking...for obvious reasons. I have more trust in faith than in another's idea of what freedom entails...
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
How can you then put all the blame for poppy culture on Taliban alone? Aghanistan and parts of FATA aren't really that much of "Taliban", you know.
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The US also far more interested in whats going on in Iraq to worry about whats going on in Afghanistan... I also dont think they are willing to rock the boat, because forcing people to stop producing poppy would turn people who are already tired of the useless Karzai govt particulalry in the Pashtun south, would embitter them even more considering poopy is a main source of income.
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US is interested in its own 'interests', true, but had this been a "Pakistani" problem there would have been a knife on our throats to solve it.
Don't you find it strange that Pashtun in south would be 'embittered' now if there main source of income is taken away whereas they didn't 'embitter' when Taliban forced them to stop?
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
Having a good time by boozing, and sticking it to mullah jerks!?!
sad and pathetic indeed
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
Alcohol has nothing to do with the West. Its been around and thriving in the East for a very long time, so any attempt to make this a East vs. West issue is ridiculous.
Not that I'd recommend anyone to drink (in fact, I strongly suggest you stay away from it because of its negative consequences), but the way MMA and such parties behave is not helping the situation.
The more strict you get and the more intrusive the government gets in personal lives, the more rebellion there will be. Simple thing is to promote awareness of the negative health effects of alcohol and the religious prohibitions of it, and present to people the consequences of getting caught drunk, and then let people decide if they want to be stupid enough to be caught falling all over the street drunk. No need to listen at doors for sounds of music. As if music and alcohol even have a correlation!
Secondly, it would do the MMA a whole lot better to turn their attention to more pressing issues in the NWFP province. Like sexual abuse, poverty, rape, harassment, lack of education, lack of safety, and drugs.
Meanwhile their biggest concern is who is blasting music on their stereo. Ridiculous.
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
Yaar, there is a big difference between taxing alcohol, somthing that available easily across Pakistan and “selling your kids.”
There are countries that have legalized and regulated prostitution, which is not something im willing to prescribe, but isnt it a little less hypocritical compared to the alternative, simply not acknowledging the issue, holding up this mask of piety while Heera Mandi is doing roaring bussiness?
I think defining the limits isnt as complex as one assumes. A nation that is dedicated to ideals of free speech and freedom of choice can make the right decisions and set the right limits.
I like to think of the drinking and alchol issue in practical terms… Symbolism is useless, I find it hypocritical. To eefectively route out such precieved evils in society, pragmatic steps should be taken…
Tax alcohol, export it even, the way they do from Muree buree. Fine this is haram money, but then go ahead and spend it in a halal manneR.. Why this facade of islam… Even god doesnt like hypocrits…
Still, your right the point isnt about alcohol, but if you go back and read the article, my whole point which seems to have eluded people, is that the religous police in Peshawar and other places have taken it upon themselves to make sure no one partakes in such things even within the confines of thier four walls.
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
People having been drinking for centuries, not because they were alcaholic but because it replaced the lack of clean drinkng water…
The NWFP govt has no choice but to prop up such non issues… They were voted on the platform of Shariat and bringing Islamic rule… Their shallow interpretation however is limited to such trivial and cosmetic issues such as music, art etc because these are the easiest things to tackle, while the more pressing issues such law and order, education etc require greater introspection and understanding of Islam and its role in society to find in it, a solution…
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
Fine, I wont blame the Taliban per say, but these Islamic groups which claim to represent Islam and yet allow such things to continue… Lately it been the Taliban that responsible for this, they have apparently taken over a whole swath of land in FATA and seem to ignore the drug trade, and yet all we hear is how they are threatening to blow up girls schools, any for of drinking etc. But they arent alone, other hypocrits also loom large.
The Taliban controled EVERYTHING with a danda… They people im sure have many things to be embittered about, but this was the least of the Taliban concerns… They had done far worse… Did they care about what anyone thought when they blew up the Bamiyan Buddhas?
The Afghan and American govt have the unenviable task of portraying themselves as open and democratic, senstitve to the needs of the Afghan people… The Talibans perogative was to spread their form of Islam, not protect the interest of the people.
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
Ask a victim of a drunk driver if he/she god "hurt" as a result of the driver's drinking...
P, would you care to ask the victim of non drinking drivers, if you look at the ratio you have more of non drinking bad drivers in Pakistan than drunk drivers. Wrong example my friend. Drinking and driving do not mix, I mentioned earlier inposts the same thing.
So now, if I am drinking but not driving am I hurting anybody?
Please have a look at the underlined and let me know how it is an impostion nonetheless.
Well thats your prerogative, you have a right to have an opinion, and does not have to be right.:)
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
All of you who support the MMA style rule in NWFP, can you imagine yourself living in those conditions? Why don't you move there and live for a year? It is easy to sit in the West and say it is good for them.
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
^^ 
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
In terms of harm, one wonders...especially if we're dealing with poor kids. In other words, that's hardly a worthy reason to allow alcohol.
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There are countries that have legalized and regulated prostitution, which is not something im willing to prescribe, but isnt it a little less hypocritical compared to the alternative, simply not acknowledging the issue, holding up this mask of piety while Heera Mandi is doing roaring bussiness?
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No. I don't think thinking something is wrong and turning a blind eye to it is more hypocritical than regulating it to make a buck off of it. It's the latter mentality which feeds the roaring business, as you put it...legalizing corruption doesn't make it any less corrupt.
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I think defining the limits isnt as complex as one assumes. A nation that is dedicated to ideals of free speech and freedom of choice can make the right decisions and set the right limits.
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Then they don't have freedom to everyone's satisfaction. I agree. So then let's can this crap about freedom and simply talk in honest terms of where we draw the line...and not making a stink as if only one side is advocating the drawing of such lines.
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Tax alcohol, export it even, the way they do from Muree buree. Fine this is haram money, but then go ahead and spend it in a halal manneR.. Why this facade of islam... Even god doesnt like hypocrits...
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I don't think it's hypocrisy to avoid ill gotten money.
Re: Bootlegging alive and kicking in Peshawar.
Call me when u r in Peshawar, free “Chapli kebabs, and beer” for u. 