That in no way negates the existence of people who drive under the influence. Sweep it under the rug if you wish, but the issue doesn't go away.
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So now, if I am drinking but not driving am I hurting anybody?
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You're hurting yoruself by being a potential idiot when otherwise you wouldn't be. How am I hurting you by taking the drink out of your hand?
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Please have a look at the underlined and let me know how it is an impostion nonetheless.
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It imposes on those who think drinking would bring ill on society by going against a clearly prohibited act according to religion...and seeing as how that society isn't secular (sorry boss, that's how it is)...it IS an imposition of your mores on another. Sorry...one way or the other...
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Well thats your prerogative, you have a right to have an opinion, and does not have to be right.:)
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If it's just an opinion, why all the opposition? Simply accept the prohibition and get on with life...but alas...that's just not the case is it?
My point is that Alcahol should be controled, not by banning it, but by making so its legal and out in the open and thus easier to control… Its counter inutitive I know, but I believe that banning something is pointless and only makes it that much more dangerous.
Freedom is never to everyones satisfaction, but thats how things work.. We shouldnt be afraid to debate these things… Citing the argument that freedom never satisfies anyone sounds like a cop out. Simply apposing ones will, the other alternative is far worse. You said yourself, that you arent against people drinking with the confines of their own four walls, but drinking in public is offensive, and I would agree, but then even this liberty is frowned upon amongst the religous fantics of NWFP.
And its beyond me how a country thats prides itself on its religous piety, can allow prostitution, drinking, gambling, and countless other vices to persist under the ever watchful eye of the authorities, who by the way arent above indulging in it themselves, and not be considered hypocritical…
I see this as nothing more then a stark demial of fact… Legalizing corruption is still corruption but what about not doing anything about that corruption?
Is it ok to have rules and not apply them? You seem content to allow such corruption to continue so long as there are laws which atleast give an air of piety, make-up to cover up the many blemishes of the society…
What I propose is a practical approach towards societies ills… Accepting that people will drink and do whatever the heck they want, with this in mind, why not tackle the issue allowing people their freedom to drink or not to drink… But if its out in the open, it is that much easier ot control…
And I personally see no problem with using “haram” money for “halal” purposes like education etc… People will be people, and if they insist on harming themselves then it will comes at a cost to them, indollar terms perhaps, which is by default, a benefit to society.
If it’s just an opinion, why all the opposition? Simply accept the prohibition and get on with life…but alas…that’s just not the case is it?[/QiUOTE]
I think the issue is that prohabition isnt working and its simply a waste… The same way that prohabition in America led to nothing more then increased crime due to the mafia when consumption went underground, you have the same case in Pakistan… Alcahol consumption has gone underground, and the ban is useless.
its not useless, it limits the amount of people drinking and its symbolic statement of the view of the majority. its not just in peshawar that a drinker may find trouble. sharaab is not accepted in pakistan. i know the leaders drink, i know the sports people drink, i know the druggies drink. pakistanis on the whole will not accept it and i applaud that. the society doesnt need this type of crap thrown in.
banned substances and narcotics are consumed throughout the world for a variety of reasons. eg rebellions, self haters, alternative lifestylers and 'feshiony'. this really isnt a reason to uturn on required laws.
everything can be debated but i must admit i think something is wrong or personal with your view, does someone close to you drink?
PaKpatriot1 said: People having been drinking **(alcoholic drinks) *for centuries, not because they were alcaholic *[sic] **but because it replaced the lack of clean drinkng water
PaKpatriot1, I don't believe I have had the pleasure of reading your intellectual posts before, but this sentence is clearly a masterpiece. Pls allow me to salute you for your deep thoughts and razor-sharp commentary. As they say, one learns something new every day.
Thats true. In olden times the water was unclean in many places around the world, and then they disovered that drinking beer causes less health problems as the alcohol in the beer killed off alot of parasitic bacteria.
And oh btw Mr. Faisal, before you go ridiculing people around, I recomentdyou watch the Hist. Chanel documentary, Modern marvels: brewries.
and about the alchol situation in pakistan, it is easily avaible to anyone who wants it(from locall muree brewry beer to imported vodka from sweden)
Agreed pakpatriot. In fact, there really isn't anything inherently wrong with alcohol, except now its not really used to replace bad drinking water, but its used to get trashed mostly. And of course, mature people will drink it maturely, but we all know that most people are by nature, not mature these days.
Dude, read you history… Your sarcasm just betrays your lack of knowledge… for example, in Europe, one of the reasons why Alchol such as beer and wine are so popular today is because its was staple drink in a world where clean water was otherwise unavailable… People have been drinking WINE WITH food for centuries because wine doesnt spoil or become contaminated in the same way as water..
Its not to far fetched to believe that considering that even in the modern world there are people without access to clean water, there were people in the ancient world who had the same problem and thus turned to alcohol/ If you dont understand this simple fact then I cant help you. http://www.beekmanwine.com/prevtopx.htm
“Evidence arguing against a widespread use of water for drinking can be found in the Bible and ancient Greek texts. Both the Old and New Testaments are virtually devoid of references to water as a common beverage. Likewise, Greek writings make scant reference to water drinking, with the exception of positive statements regarding the quality of water from mountain springs. Hippocrates specifically cited water from springs and deep wells as safe, as was rainwater collected in cisterns. The ancients, through what must have been tragic experience, clearly understood that most of their water supply was unfit for human consumption
In the context of contaminated water supply, ethyl alcohol may indeed have been mother’s milk to a nascent Western civilization. Beer and wine were free of pathogens. And the antiseptic power of alcohol, as well as the natural acidity of wine and beer, killed many pathogens when the alcoholic drinks were diluted with the sullied water supply. Dating from the taming and conscious application of the fermentation process, people of all ages in the West have therefore consumed beer and wine, not water, as their major daily thirst quenchers.”
Here is a small sop for you:
The experience in the East differed greatly. For at least the past 2000 years, the practice of boiling water, usually for tea, has created a potable supply of nonalcoholic beverages. In addition, genetics played an important role in making Asia avoid alcohol: approximately half of all Asian people lack an enzyme necessary for complete alcohol metabolism, making the experience of drinking quite unpleasant. Thus, beer and wine took their place as staples only in Western societies and remained there until the end of the last century.
Although I dont advocate drinking, prior to Islam, Im failry certain the prophets used to drink some form of Alcohol or another… Jesus was jew, so he must have had wine with meals at one time or another… Althouth even they said alcahol in excess was bad…
LOL… The History channel is where I heard about this aswell… I knew people had unfit water, but had no idea to what extent alcahol was used to replace it.
Yaar I dont advocate drinking, and as far as I know no one in my family drinks, although I suspect a few have even if they dont admit it… Thats common in every family.. Still, even people who drink in Pakistan will admit that what they do is wrong, so the question of who drinks in your family is irrelevant since everyone recognizes it as a negative thing.
My point is, as far as usefulness goes, banning things has the opposite effect. People are rebelious by nature… The best way to control something is to make it so its out in the open… To say that the ban on Alcahol is nothing more then symbolism is a cop out. Islam didnt make Alcahol haram for the symbolism of it…
To truly control the evils of alcaholism, you have to make it legal so that it can be regulated… If that were the case then even I would support busting illegal alcahol rings… I tell you this, if alcahol was legally available, there would be fewer people drinking, because they couldnt get away with it.
But if Symbolism is all Pakistanis want then so be it… But lets condemn such gratuitous behavior adopted by the religous police and self appointed Islamic vigalantes of the NWFP…
PaKpatriot1, I don't believe I have had the pleasure of reading your intellectual posts before, but this sentence is clearly a masterpiece. Pls allow me to salute you for your deep thoughts and razor-sharp commentary. As they say, one learns something new every day.
If you like to come out so strongly make sure you are saying the right thing as well. One thing I agree with you "One does learn every day".:)
The History channel is where I heard about this aswell… I knew people had unfit water, but had no idea to what extent alcahol was used to replace it.
no one in my family drinks, although I suspect a few have even if they dont admit it… Thats common in every family.. Still, even people who drink in Pakistan will admit that what they do is wrong, so the question of who drinks in your family is irrelevant since everyone recognizes it as a negative thing.