Book of Holy Ignorance ?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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In this Information age of Internet - Islam will face its most serious challenge of How to control criticisms of Quran, the Prophet, the Companions, etc. All criticisms have been suppressed since Islam’s inception under the iron-clad laws of blasphemey, punishable by death. After that, can anti-Mullah & anti-Ulema riots be far behind. Those who rule by the sword usually die by it!

Beginning of Quote:
An Egyptian writer who described the Koran - Islam’s most sacred text - “as a book of holy ignorance” has been given a six-month suspended jail sentence.

The writer, Salaheddin Mohsen, was arrested in March after privately publishing copies of his latest book:Shivers of Enlightenment, in which he expounds his anti-religious views. “He mocked Islam and its rites and duties and was proud of his insolence against religion under the slogan of enlightenment and freedom of creativity,” a lawyer for the prosecution told the state security court when the trial opened last month.

In the early 1990s, another little-known writer, Alaa Hamid, gained international and local attention after being sentenced to eight years on prison on similar charges.

But the head of the Egyptian Organisation for Human Rights said it was his right to express himself freely. The author’s trial followed clashes in May between police and thousands of religious students over the reprint of a novel by Syrian writer Haider Haider, which protesters said insulted Islam. End of Quote.

The Egyptian writer is not alone! There is great zeal to overthrow the yoke of religious orthodoxy that has enslaved the common muslims with its extreme laws. That zeal is prevalent in all Discussion Boards! Visit any Boards and it is full of Criticism of Islam and its laws.

After all, Islam may mean peace and Allah of Islam may be Rahman & Rahim (Compassionate & Merciful)but the actual reality is quite the reverse. There is no Compassion & Mercy in Islam’s Sharia’h laws and Islam is most Violent. So, can you show me “where is the beef” in Orthodox Islam (shia & sunni)?

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SURAH "AL-BAQARAH" 6-7
"As for those who have rejected (these things), it is all the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them: they are not going to believe. Allah has sealed up their hearts and their ears and covering has fallen over their eyes,............"

8-20
".........HE gives them rope enough and they wander on and on blindly in their mischief and rebellion.........."

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Please allow me to clarify!

I do not believe that Quran is a book of holy ignorance as the Egyptian writer claimed; BUT, I believe the Quran has been made into one by muslims!

Quran is the book of guidance but it all depends on how the book is used. It's all in the interpretation. But, majority of muslims have not really tested the Quran, they have stuck with the early 7th century interpretations that is in sharp collision with the present time.

We claim that 'there is no compulsion in Religion' but most of the time we spend condemning other muslims and people of other religions. So, this verse has become a joke & a big lie.

We claim that men & women are equal but then painfully try to define the terms of equality. Women have, for most of the history of Islam, been second-class citizens and this is reflected in the Islamic societies today. Another big lie!

We claim that non-muslims are to be treated with dignity & equality but in practise - all their religions have been cancelled and they all practise kuffar. In the early Taliban rule, hindus & sikhs were made to display special markers on their clothes to identify them as non-muslims. Major lies!

And, you are already aware of my consistent demand to 'show me the beef'. We claim that Islam is Peace and Allah of Islam is Rahman & Rahim but can any of you prove with real-life examples that these do exist in Islam. I guarantee, you can't!

Finally, I believe that Quran is a book of hope & enlightenment; But it has been converted into a book of ignorance by majority muslims!

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faceup dear!
part of your question has been answered in "Why are QADIANIS kafir?
Rest: Masooma's answer is the only thing I can say as well.
(as faceup pointed out, I apologize and making edition, my mistake, may allah forgive me)
Aouzu billa he minush shaitanir Rajim
Bismilla hir Rah manir Rahim.

"ALIF LAAM MEEM. ZAALIKAL KITABO LA RAI BAFIH. HUDDAL LIL MUTTAQEEN AL LAZINA YUMENOONA BIL GHAIBE WA YUQEEMONUS SALATA WA MIMMA RAZAQNAHUM YUNFIQOON. WAL LAZINA YUMENOONA BIMA UNZILA ILAIKA WAMA UNZILA MIN QABLIK. WABIL AKHIRATE HUM YOUQENOON. OOLAIKA HUDAM MIR RABIHIM WA OOLAIKA HUMUL MUFLIHOON. INNAL LAZINA KAFARU SAWAUN ALAIHIM A'ANZARTAHUM AM LAM TUNZIRHUM LA YOUMINOON. KHATAMAL LAHO ALA QULUBE HIM WA LA SAMAIHIM WA ALA ABSAREHIM GhISHAWAH. WALA HUM AZAABUN AZEEM.

[This message has been edited by Shaheen (edited July 09, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Shaheen (edited July 09, 2000).]

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Shaheen,

Could you translate all that for this munafiq?

BTW, in the thread: Why are Qadianis Kafirs? Note from Admin: faceup, clean up your act and refrain from launching personal attacks. Make your point without name-calling.

What good is it to quote long impressive verse when one cannot relate to it in real life. Next time when you say Bismillah hir Rahman ir Rahim -

[This message has been edited by Admin (edited July 19, 2000).]

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Bye the way faceup!
if you have learned quran with tafseer then you will know that Tauz i.e., Aouzubillah minush shaitanir Rajim is farz before reciting Quran and Bismaillah is Mustahib.
I will definitely write it next time insha Allah. Thankx for reminding me.
According to Hazrat Ali (RH):
"Don't look who is saying.
But listen what he is saying.

Wama Aliana Illal Balagh

[This message has been edited by Shaheen (edited July 09, 2000).]

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Shaheen

Learning Quran & Tafseer haven't made you a better man! Maybe, it's the company that you hang around! Or, could it be that people are twisting Allah's word to preach hatred; oh, they are calling it dawa'h; and you're all caught up in it!

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faceup
after reading all that you wrote and all that others wrote all i c is you blaming ppl for what they do. You pput in front of everyone a problem, but have not proposed a solution for the problem. Everyone else tried tehir best to do so and all youd do is turn around and criticize them for it. You fail to get every1z point, what ever it may be.

BRAIN:Are you pondering what I'm pondering?

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OffdaChain,

You're truly off-the-track!

I am, very simply put,calling majority of muslims to be worshippers of Iblees/Satan due to the fact that what they profess to be a religion(?) is totally devoid of compassion, tolerance & peace. Cannot get any simpler than this! And, you 've read all that I have written and that helps.

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well that exactly what im saying

that is a problem in your point of view right??
Well you tell evryonme the problem, but tell us how you think ppl. can solve that. You cant critisize a majority of ppl w/o telling them how they can fix what tehy are doing worng!!!!!!!!!

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Hi faceup aka logical, using two names for yourself. Trying to be smart arse, huh. All you do is carry on restating your questions again and again. Remember the thread, ARE SHARIAH LAWS ANTI ALLAH, in which your attacks on Islaam and Shariah were destroyed. Anyway since you seem to have no shame, then let the humiliation continue. I'll give you another example.

In the USA and the west, the woman is treated like a sex object and nothing more. Pictures of naked/semi-naked women are to be found everywhere. Almost every advertisement uses this technique to good effect. How a woman projects her body in a sexual way, has great influence on being selected for a job. According to the FBI's 1997 Uniform Crime Report, median time served for rape was 3 years (what the heck is this. you disgusting animals!). Everyday 48 women are raped by persons who have been caught, convicted, and subsequently released on probation or parole.

You see these laws, do not bring women any justice, but they are just a delusion, to satisfy the lower whims & desires of the likes of you and your lawmakers, since these lawmakers do not know when, they themselves might turn out to be the culprits or one of their family members(remember the sexual harrasment case against Bill Clinton). You know why you people think like this. Because you do not think with that which is in your heads but with that which is between your two legs.

I'll tell you how Allah is Merciful & Compassionate. First he made this henious crime forbidden. Then Allah allowed us to kill this rapist, thereby being a real detterent to a would be rapist, unlike the three years in USA. So these laws are designed to give maximum protection to women, whereas your laws are designed to give maximum pleasure to the freaks.

That is just one example, don't worry, many more to come InshAllah, in addition to ones in the thread ARE SHARIAH LAWS ANTI ALLAH. As offdachain stated you have failed to explain a single alternative. So I got just a few questions for you, about your ideology. Should abortion be allowed? What should the punishment for a rapist be? Should prostitution be allowed? Explain What I have stated above with regards to rape crime in USA. Since if you don't, then we'll be forced to conclude that you are nothing more than a freak, trying to fulfill your carnal desires in a cheap way.

P.S. do not show your ignorance and continue to humiliate yourself by trying to claim that four witnesses are required for a rape (that's for adultery).

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salafi
I see you're still entertaining for your own personal pleasure!

We R talking about Islam & its followers here not the West. so, do not dilute the subject by mixing in your hate for the West in it.

The subject is whether majority muslims worship Allah or Iblees? I said majority worship Iblees and forefront amongst them are the Salafis/Wahabis - the biggest Fitna ever and most responsible for causing muslims to deviate & go astray!

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Note from Admin: Please refrain from name calling. Next time your entire message will be deleted.

After all, Islam may mean peace and Allah of Islam may be Rahman & Rahim (Compassionate & Merciful)but the actual reality is quite the reverse. There is no Compassion & Mercy in Islam's Sharia'h laws and Islam is most Violent. So, can you show me "where is the beef" in Orthodox Islam (shia & sunni)?<<

The subject is whether majority muslims worship Allah or Iblees?<<

What else can someone do, when they have no shame left. But what is clear is what you worship faceup/logical. From all your posts, I have noticed that your call leads nowhere, , just like your western counterparts.

So the unbeliever was left dumbfounded, his argument was overthrown, silenced, struck dumb and falsehood was rendered futile as is alway the case.

[This message has been edited by Admin (edited July 19, 2000).]

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Salafi,

your creed has virually destroyed the message of Islam. Naujabillah!

Again, since you and your partners cannot cite any examples of Allah's compassion, tolerance & kindness in your real life but can cite numerous examples of trashing women, non-Islamic west (who feeds & clothes you), other muslims & minorities makes

Let's see you stick with the core message of this post and prove me otherwise. I guarantee - you can't, other than to congratulate yourself with phony self-praises.

[This message has been edited by Admin (edited July 19, 2000).]

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faceup bragged:

since you and your partners cannot cite any examples of Allah's compassion, tolerance & kindness in your real life but<<

read my response above again, this is what it said , read & weep:

I'll tell you how Allah is Merciful & Compassionate. First he made this henious crime forbidden. Then Allah allowed us to kill this rapist, thereby being a real detterent to a would be rapist, unlike the three years in USA. So these laws are designed to give maximum protection to women, whereas your laws are designed to give maximum pleasure to the freaks<<

Yeah, this punishment is carried out in Saudia. If you can't understand that as being a real life example, . Another example is Zakaat (obligatory charity, given to the poor). Another example is the forbiddance of abortion (i.e. murder of human beings which your colleagues are busy in).

BTW i'm still waiting for the answers to questions I raised above. What's happened, the cat got hold of your tongue.

So the unbeliever was left dumbfounded, his argument was overthrown, silenced, struck dumb and falsehood was rendered futile as is alway the case.

[This message has been edited by salafi (edited July 10, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Admin (edited July 19, 2000).]

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faceup crowed:

[quote]
An Egyptian writer who described the Koran - Islam's most sacred text - "as a book of holy ignorance" has been given a six-month suspended jail sentence.

The writer, Salaheddin Mohsen, was arrested in March after privately publishing copies of his latest book:Shivers of Enlightenment, in which he expounds his anti-religious views. "He mocked Islam and its rites and duties and was proud of his insolence against religion under the slogan of enlightenment and freedom of creativity
[/quote]

faceup won't be happy until there is a muslim version of 'The life of Brian', a film that mocks the concept of Christianity.

There has already been plays portraying Christ as gay and there was the film which depicted Mary as a whore.

So spit it out faceup (remove the bag from your head first): is this what you want for the muslims too? Use your freedom of expression to say exactly what you think should be allowed in depicting Mohammed (SAW). Don't be shy. Rushdie described Ibrahim as a bastard, so put your money where your mouth is and express yourself clearly.

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There should be a “z” instead of the “j” there for correct pronounciation. I only know of indians to use “j” instead of “z” in regular speech..

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smile.gif

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salafi

At least, you made an attempt, I congratulate you for that!

I had asked for examples of real-life compassion, tolerance & peace and the following three were provided:

1) "First he made this henious crime(rape)forbidden. Then Allah allowed us to kill this rapist, thereby being a real detterent to a would be rapist. So these laws are designed to give maximum protection to women. Yeah, this punishment is carried out in Saudia. If you can't understand that as being a real life example, then I suggest you get a brain transplant. "

Let's discuss:
i)According to recent human rights report there are 3 rapes per hour reported in Pakistan; we're talking 'reported cases' only. How many are unreported because of the fears of backlash from the society?
ii)Now, the victims of rape have to produce 4 male, adult & muslims witness to press charges.
iii)The holding homes for females are over-flowing with women charged with zinaa; we're talking 'charged' here, not tried & proven, merely accused. And, most of the women have been there for years.
iv)The women, if released, would be murdered by their own families. The same fear is expressed by women in Jordan and I quote:
"A senior prison official, Major Ibtissam Dhmour said thirty-five of more than two-hundred inmates at the women's jail in Jordan were being kept behind bars to protect them from families angry at their crimes or their sexual behaviour. Some hadn't been convicted of crimes, but had been raped, accused of extra-marital affairs or become pregnant out of wedlock."
v)Rather than enacting laws & punishing the aggressors, learned scholars are urging women to fight back and even kill their attackers. Imagine, advising a women to kill..!

My dear friends:
Does the above sound like Compassion? There are more killings going on under the pretext of "supposedly" protecting women. If compassion involves shedding blood & taking of another's life, then that is not Compassion; and, I am not referring to the one or two beheadings of the perpetrators in beloved Saudia!

Re: #2:"Another example is Zakaat (obligatory charity, given to the poor)."

Let's discuss:
Majority muslims are reqd. to pay only 2.5% on their income. And, the anount may be paid to any muslim organization.
Questions:
i)What is the percentage of muslims that pay the obligatory zakaat? Salafi, do you pay the zakat?

ii)Where does the proceed of zakat go? Does anybody know? Possibly, a big chunk goes towards religious militias, madrasas where they teach that all non-sunnis are kafirs.

I concede that Zakaat is a very good example of Compassion but there is very little, in term of tangible results, to show for it. In other word, zakat is not seen contributing to the upliftment & welfare of the poor like it should and can.

3)"Another example is the forbiddance of abortion (i.e. murder of human beings which your colleagues are busy in)."

Let's discuss:
i)Does salafi know the numbers of clinics that perform ultra-sound & backroom abortions in muslim countries. These clinics have mushroomed and majority service is in determining the gender of child & abortion.
ii)Abortions are normally allowed in cases where mother life is in danger and in other early stage pregnancies.

So, do you really think that the anti-abortion law that you speak of is preventing abortions? It is, possible, making it slightly difficult but not entirely unaccessible. Again, a very weak example to substantiate Compassion.

Salafi,
Even though I appreciate your efforts but the above examples are, at the best, fringe examples of Compassion. Is this the best you could do? You could have cited some muslim NGO's who devote to bettering the lives of poors & fighting hunger & ignorance. But, then most of the muslim NGO's are classified as unIslamic because they are helping women become self-sufficient !

How about Tolerance & Peace: Couldn't you come up with examples (real-life) where Tolerance has been shown a muslim minority or non-muslims?

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All you have done is refuted yourself and made a fool of yourself. What is common between you and most of the people you have stated in your response. Astray deviants who reject the Shariah.

  1. Rape All you have stated is that there are muslims(which you claim yourself to be) who have rejected the Shariah. You do not want to implement the Shariah laws and neither do they, so what's the difference between you and them. You both claim to be muslims but you are both following your whims and desires and rejecting the Shariah.

2.Zakaat
Zakaat is one of the obligations in the religion and a pillar of Islaam. So those muslims who do not pay the Zakaat are just practising what you are calling to. Stingy lunatics.

  1. Abortion Abortion is a major sin in Islaam. Again the muslims who carry out this cold-blooded murder are the ones who have rejected the Shariah like yourself. For they are following callers like you, the ones who preach directly from the books of the christian missionaries. (Have anyone ever come accross this deviant quoting from the Qur'an?)

Yes all that you stated above is the result of calls, like yours, for you are not new. People have been active in the lands of the muslims for centuries, under payrolls of colonialists. What you have stated is a result of their call. What is remarkable is how you are in not realizing the obvious. Have you not humiliated yourself enough yet.

There is an old persian poem, which is applicable to your state.
"The dog barks while the convoy moves forward"
I'll explain it to you. The convoy is referring to the people sincerely seeking the truth who have realized your nonsense, and have either left you or effectively replied to you.

So the unbeliever was left dumbfounded, his argument was overthrown, silenced, struck dumb and falsehood was rendered futile as is always the case.

[This message has been edited by Admin (edited July 19, 2000).]

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Salafi

A religion that claims to be the world's final & greatest should be able to swamp one with hundreds of examples of Compassion, Tolerance & Peace in the true spirit of Allah who is Rahaman & Raheem; unless, that great deen has been sequestered & looted of its spirit by the gutter dwellers. And, thus the paucity of examples that you were able to list!

p.s. pir sahib - what do you think of my Indian way of spelling Rahaman & Raheem?

[This message has been edited by Admin (edited July 19, 2000).]