Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW'S HINDU TEMPLE
An helpless Indian Muslim.
ohkay there!
So Indians aren't doing it, but outsiders are the ones behind it.
I'm assuming it would then be safe for me to conclude that outsiders (next door neighbours) are the ones behind the riots in Pakistan?
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW’S HINDU TEMPLE
but ask any shia in pakistan if he believes outsiders are behind the attacks? 99% of them say no…because they know it is perfectly plausible for pakistanis to have carried them out because of anti-shia beliefs, anti-shia militant groups, and anti-shia propaganda by mullahs that they are all well aware of.
hindu-muslim tension is different…there are no indian muslim militant groups, and indian muslims are way too fearful of a backlash to bomb the holiest city in India.
all the paki nationalists joke about ISI only to pre-emptively avoid the obvious answers…because yes, the most plausible scenarios both lead to Pakistan. whether it be a direct ISI operation or an operation by a Pakistan-backed militant group operating in Kashmir. laugh all day long, but where are the other plausible scenarios?
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW'S HINDU TEMPLE
So Indians aren't doing it, but outsiders are the ones behind it.
I'm assuming it would then be safe for me to conclude that outsiders (next door neighbours) are the ones behind the riots in Pakistan?
There is no doubt Indians are doing it as well. But most, if not all, of it is fomented by third parties. Take an example of the Kashmiri terrorism. It went from a secular nationalist movement to a totally religious jihadi movement.
The problem with India's soft stance is that it protects foreign as well as domestic players. Indians take Ben Franklin's saying to heart: Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
The problem with you assertion is that you equate internal Pakistani problems with the cause coming from India. Howerer, evidence does not support your thesis. Whereas in India, the evidence supports foreign hands being behind terrorism.
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW'S HINDU TEMPLE
nikhil25, whatever you say. If Indians can point fingers at Pakistan then sure as hell Pakistanis can also point fingers at India. No Sunni would stoop to the level of bombing Shia mosques or anything of that sort. Also, Sunni mosques have been bombed and back in the days Sunni Muslims were constantly killed in gunfire while at the mosque praying.
Nameinuse, Kashimiris taking it from a secular nationalist movement to a jihadi one perhaps is because of the way Indian army/police treats Kashmiris. If Indian authorities think it's their right to butcher Kashmiris, then Kashmiris would obviously resort to violence as well.
I just find it dispicable the way some Indians point fingers at Pakistan. If anything, I've seen enough violent Indian Muslims and Hindus on T.V. to think otherwise.
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW'S HINDU TEMPLE
Nameinuse, Kashimiris taking it from a secular nationalist movement to a jihadi one perhaps is because of the way Indian army/police treats Kashmiris. If Indian authorities think it's their right to butcher Kashmiris, then Kashmiris would obviously resort to violence as well.
I just find it dispicable the way some Indians point fingers at Pakistan. If anything, I've seen enough violent Indian Muslims and Hindus on T.V. to think otherwise.
So who destroyed Al Askari mosque in Iraq? Indians?
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW’S HINDU TEMPLE
but how come shias fully believe with utmost confidence that sunnis bombed their mosques? how do you explain suicide bombs in shia mosques…you really believe indian agents would actually kill themselves? and yet at the same time, we all know sipah-e-sahiba members are willing to do so.
but you haven’t addressed what i said about this particular situation. i laid out the plausible scenarios. do you see a lapse in my logic? please explain, because i don’t see it.
also, you find it so despicable, yet the reverse is exactly what you’ve done above, at least implicitly…unless you are accusing shias themselves of bombing their own mosques.
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW'S HINDU TEMPLE
nikhil, I only accused Indians, so that you understand how ridiculous it sounds when we have Indians blaming Pakistanis.
Also, Sunnis would have to be really retarded and challenged to be going around blowing themselves up thinking they're going to get something good in return.
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW’S HINDU TEMPLE
and do you not think sipah-e-sahiba members are retarded enough?
they are beyond retarded and fully capable of such attacks…that is their mission in the first place.
i still don’t see any response to my comments on this particular situation…please tell me why we should not look towards Pakistan for responsibility? just because it is annoying to Pakistanis? this is not a reason.
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW'S HINDU TEMPLE
nikhil, you gotta be kidding me with the whole Pakistanis doing it in India BS, I'm sorry to say.
Like I said, I've seen enough strange Indian Muslims and Hindus on T.V. to be sure that they're the ones doing it to each other.
As for sipah-e-sahiba, I've got no clue who and what they are. I'm just as familiar with them as I am with Shiv Sinha (sp?). Should I assume that their strong hatred is the reason behind the turbulence in Pakistan?
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW’S HINDU TEMPLE
if this is actually how you feel, you need a crash course in how intelligence agencies work. you really don’t think Pakistan’s ISI is active in India? they are very active in India, just like India’s RAW is active in Pakistan. to deny these realities would be the height of naivete.
nobody is saying Musharraf and Shaukat Aziz were sitting around planning attacks on Indian temples. Intelligence agencies operate covertly and often with impunity.
when was the last time an Indian muslim group orchestrated a coordinated bombing like yesterday’s? there have been a half-dozen prominent acts along the same lines…all being carried out by Pakistan-backed militant groups.
no, shiv sena is not active in Pakistan…just like sipah-e-sahaba is not active in India.
nobody blames Pakistan when Shiv Sena carries out an attack…we blame Shiv Sena.
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW'S HINDU TEMPLE
So it's the intelligence agencies of the two countries behind such acts? serious question
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW'S HINDU TEMPLE
Nameinuse, Kashimiris taking it from a secular nationalist movement to a jihadi one perhaps is because of the way Indian army/police treats Kashmiris. If Indian authorities think it's their right to butcher Kashmiris, then Kashmiris would obviously resort to violence as well.
I just find it dispicable the way some Indians point fingers at Pakistan. If anything, I've seen enough violent Indian Muslims and Hindus on T.V. to think otherwise.
Sadiyah, Its not only Indians that point the finger at Pakistanis. Remember the bombings in Egypt, the authorities first blamed Pakistanis. Remember when authorities in Turkey were on the look out for Pakistanis in connection with bombings of Synogogues. The London bombers all went to Pakistan for training. Whenever something happens in the world, Pakistanis seem to be connected.
As in the point of Kashmir, the originators of the movement now are backing away from the Jihadis. The Pakistani attempt to radicalize movements is failing. But in the interim, lots of people are being killed in the name of religion.
As for pointing fingers, it is with due cause.
But all of that is beyond my point. My point is that India does not and has not gotten "tough" on terrorism. India does not, and Indians refuse, to use any tactics that are used by the US, Europe, or Pakistan. Intelligence agencies are not allowed to make arrests dometically, habeas corpus cannot be denied, confessions during interrogations cannot be used. CBI has it's hands tied behind its backs. The Indian public is very skeptical, and will not give up any of it's rights. People wanted in India for terrorism and bombings and killings operate freely in Pakistan.
If the US found a "suspect" in Pakistan, a drone would put a bomb on them. Mosad would have no problems with operating anywhere. However, take Kargil for example, even after it was learned that Pakistani regulars were operating with the jihadis, it was long before a tough Indian response.
If India were to act with a little less hesitation, like the US, there would be no Kashmir problem. If India acted like Pakistan, there would be no Naxals no Assam rebellion. The problem is not with the international community. The world has lost it patience with terrorism and, to a large extent find Pakistanis behind it. The problem is, in order to have a tough stance the public must be willing to give up some rights....and in India, the public is not willing to do that.
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW'S HINDU TEMPLE
Is Pakistan really that corrupt and bad of a nation to be harbouring all sorts of weirdos?
I'm quite surprised to learn that India has been lose with the whole situation. I've heard quite a lot of stories about how Indian police could be very cruel and has killed so many people (just like Pakistan police has). Therefore, it's sort of hard to swallow that they've had laid back approach all this time.
Why is it that Indians aren't willing to give up their rights? Do they really have that much of an authority? I ask because leaders of many other nations do whatever they see fit to deal with the violence at hand, while the citizens of such nations keep complaining, but not much heed is paid to them.
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW’S HINDU TEMPLE
Who’s Behind the India Bombs?
Explosions at a Hindu holy site provoke a surprisingly muted response. But the mystery of who’s responsible for them remains
SUBSCRIBE TO TIMEPRINTE-MAILMORE BY AUTHOR
Posted Wednesday, Mar. 08, 2006
India is changing fast. A few years ago, a bomb attack on a holy Hindu site would have sparked riots. A few months ago, there would have seemed little doubt that Islamist groups linked to Pakistan carried it out. That neither is a certainty today reflects a nation, and a subcontinent, in profound change.
On Tuesday night, two crude devices—unidentified explosives packed into pressure cookers and fitted with a timer—exploded within minutes of each other at a temple and a train station in Varanasi, the greatest of all Hindu pilgrimage centers on the Ganges in northern India. Police say 21 people were killed and more than 60 injured. Fearing a violent Hindu backlash, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh appealed for calm and put security forces on high alert across the country.
Singh’s caution reflects the subcontinent’s history of Hindu-Muslim violence. Hindu-majority India and Muslim Pakistan were born in the sectarian bloodbath of partition, and three wars the the Kashmir insurgency have kept relations between the communities strained. Just four years ago, the death of 59 Hindus in a burning railway carriage—at the time thought to have been set alight by a mob of Muslims, but now ruled an accident—sparked an anti-Islamic pogrom across the western state of Gujarat in which 2,000 more Muslims died. And yet, 24 hours after the Varanasi bombings: No Hindu riots, no Hindu nationalist stoking the crowds, no knee-jerk accusations from the security services.
Asked who might have carried out the attack, a senior Indian intelligence operative told TIME: “There aren’t any definite pointers as yet. Given the target, it’s probably an Islamist group, but there’s nothing to connect them to Lashkar-e-Toibaa”—referring to the Pakistani militant group fighting in Kashmir with links to the Pakistani establishment that has carried attacks across India and, until recently, was routinely fingered for any act of violence here. The officer added that the amateur nature of the devices suggested the bombers were poorly funded, and most likely had no support from any government.
What has changed? Since 2004, India and Pakistan have been engaged in their first ever meaningful peace process and taken significant steps to normalize relations. What’s more, India’s Hindu right wing, which rose to prominence by stoking sectarian hatred and held power from 1997 to 2004 under the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), is in disarray. The party has yet to recover from its election defeat two years ago and a round of bitter infighting that followed.
Some argue, moreover, that India’s leaders are showing the maturity that comes with the country’s new position in the world. Brahma Chellaney, strategic studies professor at New Delhi’s Centre for Policy Research, says that coming a few days after a state visit by U.S. President George W. Bush, the bombs were timed to “deflate the elation” in India at its simultaneous economic and geopolitical emergence. For the same reason, India’s reaction was muted. “If you react strongly, you diminish your standing in the world,” he said. “These people want to belittle India. For that reason, India will react in its own way.”
But who is behind the latest bombings, the latest in a string of recent attacks? In August 2003, two bomb blasts in Bombay killed more than 50 people. In September 2004, around 30 people died in a gun attack on a temple in Gujarat. And last October, more than 60 were killed in a series of bomb blasts in Delhi. Another Indian intelligence officer who spoke to TIME linked Tuesday’s bombings to amateurish attacks late last year in the tech towns of Hyderabad and Bangalore, and possibly the Delhi blasts too. In Hyderabad last October, a suicide bomber blew himself up 200 yards from the Andhra Pradesh state Chief Minister’s office, killing only himself. And in Bangalore in December, a man ran into a conference at the Indian Institute of Technology and hurled several grenades which failed to explode, before firing a AK-47, killing a professor. “Some say it’s all the same cell,” said the first intelligence officer. “And if there are any substantive indications at all, they point to a group that came over from Bangladesh.”
It would be naive to think that India has shed its Hindu chauvinism overnight. After the latest attack, former BJP Deputy Prime Minister Lal Krishna Advani announced he would he embarking on a “yatra,” a cross between a march and a pilgrimage, to protest the pandering to “minorities” — meaning Muslims — that he said had led to the bombings. Moreover, as relations with Pakistan warm, India’s nationalist hawks are all too eager to find another “anti-India” bogeyman in the rising Islamic fundamentalist movement in India’s its eastern neighbor, Bangladesh. Nor is the absence of a riot much to celebrate. But given the subcontinent’s bloody, sectarian history, it’s a start.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1171112,00.html
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW'S HINDU TEMPLE
Sad news.. Uttar Pradesh again..
I agree with Indians that they are soft on terror. Babri Mosque was destroyed by Hindu terrorists (led by Advani, who is calling for strikes now to win the next UP election for BJP) in the same province. Obviously it was ISI. Almost two thousand people were killed (most of them Muslims) in the communal riots that ensued... Obviously those communal riots were also orchestrated by Pakistan.
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW’S HINDU TEMPLE
of course…and much of their activities will be unknown to top government officials…poeple like Shaukat Aziz or Manmohan Singh.
the question is simpy which incidents are the result of ISI or RAW. while it is plausible that RAW would want to foment sectarian violence in Pakistan, there are way too many extremist Pakistanis that are perfectly capable of doing that by themselves. the suicide bombings of shias is an obvious example of that. on this website itself i have seen rabid anti-shia propaganda.
Pakistan’s ISI would be behind these Varanasi attacks for the exact same reason - fomenting communal violence. the difference is that Indian muslims are not in the position to carry out such attacks.
if you want other examples…i would admit that RAW is most likely involved in Baluchistan’s rebellion. similarly, the ISI is involved in India’s north-east rebellion in Assam…meaning, they would be providing funds and weapons. Pakistan’s funding/arming of Khalistani rebels in the 80’s is well-documented. similarly, RAW armed and funded the LTTE in the 80’s.
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW'S HINDU TEMPLE
Why is that bin Laden's ilk are being caught in Pakistan and not Afghanistan. Mind you they are not caught in the mountains, they are living in Karachi..in the homes of MMA members. In all other countries, anyone who hijacks a plane and is freed would be caught on sight...but not in Pakistan. Even China is getting irked with the support Muslims in Xianjiang are getting from Pakistan.
Indian police are cruel when they pick up a petty thief, or a local goonda. Killings in custody are quickly investigated. Look at the recent death of a person in Asam. The newspapers learned of it, and published everything....including post mortem reports. Supposed encounters are quickly uncovered. Custodial killings are quickly made public. What you see in a movie and reality are very different.
Case and point is Kerala. Dawood Ibrahim and Chota Rajan use Kerala to bring money and supplies to cause havoc in Mumbai. The Indian intelligencies were well aware, but cannot make an arrest. By the time all the red tape has been cleared and the CBI can make an arrest, both jump ship and leave the country.
Why don't Indians don't give up their rights, exactly because they are rights.
The leaders in India get voted out of office when they go beyond their mandate. Indians hold democracy and the rights of the indivudual very highly. But in the democracy, they , in their attempt to not be overwhelming on minorities, bog the gov't down.
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW'S HINDU TEMPLE
I'm quite surprised to learn that India has been lose with the whole situation. I've heard quite a lot of stories about how Indian police could be very cruel and has killed so many people (just like Pakistan police has). Therefore, it's sort of hard to swallow that they've had laid back approach all this time.
Why is it that Indians aren't willing to give up their rights? Do they really have that much of an authority? I ask because leaders of many other nations do whatever they see fit to deal with the violence at hand, while the citizens of such nations keep complaining, but not much heed is paid to them.
It has to do with Indian politics. India is split verticaly between the right wing Hindu natinalist and the left wing congress and the communist. There is no center party which strikes a balance between the two extremes. This leads to such choas and uncertainty.
Majority fundamentalism is bad, and so is minority fundamentalism.
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW'S HINDU TEMPLE
[QUOTE]
The leaders in India get voted out of office when they go beyond their mandate. Indians hold democracy and the rights of the indivudual very highly. But in the democracy, they , in their attempt to not be overwhelming on minorities, bog the gov't down.
[/QUOTE]
Like Modi was voted out in Gujrat? Like Advani jee was voted out?
Re: BOMB BLAST IN LUCKNOW'S HINDU TEMPLE
Yes, BJP was voted out. There is little doubt that Modi will not be voted out as well. Advani also has cases filed against him that are being investigated.